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  Queston for The Big "E"

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This topic was originally posted in this forum: Wanted To Buy
Author Topic:   Queston for The Big "E"
Bobby B
unregistered

Posts: 4424
From: Hendersonville,Tn. 37075
Registered: DEC 99

posted 21 December 1999 03:29 PM           
A few weeks ago I had my first experience with a "keyless" guitar. I have to say that I was very sceptical going in. However, it turned out to be a very pleasant experience and really "opened" my eyes to a machine that I had a negative approach to in my mind.
I'm pretty sure that for a while you played a keyless guitar. Did you have any mental or physical problems adapting to the guitar, being that it was probably shorter and gave a different appearence than what you were accustomed to? Was the longer scale (25" or 25 1/2" I think) any kind of a problem? Any other comments you may have, pro or con?
Thanks E,
BB


Buddy Emmons
Member

Posts: 1403
From: Hermitage, TN USA
Registered: AUG 98

posted 22 December 1999 06:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Buddy Emmons     
Bobby,
I have had several keyless guitars and have nothing but good to say about the sound. The harmonics were cleaner by comparison to my Emmons (the Blade). I used one on the road with the Everlys for a while and never had a guitar before that with a better C6 sound. The scale was 25 inches and I had string breaking problems well above average so I gave up on it. Also, it didn't have that certain sound that kicks me in the tail and says "go for it."
While we're on the subject, I was doing a seminar with Jeff Newman years ago and we were playing back to back during the class. It was pretty obvious to me that his Cline keyless had a cleaner and sweeter sound than The Blade. It must have been on his mind too because he leaned over and whispered, "Why does my guitar sound better than yours?" I leaned toward him and replied, "because you have a tin ear."
Buddy


Bobby B
unregistered

Posts: 1403
From: Hermitage, TN USA
Registered: AUG 98

posted 22 December 1999 08:09 AM           
Thanks Buddy. I guess in Jeffs' case a "tin" is not as good as a "nine". Maybe his ear wasn't "galvanized".
BB


Steve Feldman
Member

Posts: 2983
From: Millbury, MA USA
Registered: DEC 99

posted 22 December 1999 09:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Steve Feldman     
Good to know you're still out there listening, Buddy.
Steve Feldman


Larry Behm
Member

Posts: 1686
From: Oregon City, Oregon
Registered:

posted 23 December 1999 05:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Larry Behm     
Buddy hope you and Peggy have a very merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

Larry and Patti

Perry Hansen
Member

Posts: 852
From: Bismarck, N.D.
Registered:

posted 23 December 1999 06:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Perry Hansen     
Bobby, I have the same problem with my Sierra keyless. Great sound but it goes through strings like salts through the hired girl.
Perry


Richard Sinkler
Member

Posts: 2896
From: Fremont, California
Registered: AUG 98

posted 23 December 1999 07:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Richard Sinkler     
I played a Kline keyless for about 15 years and it was one of the best guitars I have ever played. Sounded great, stayed in tune, and hardly ever broke strings. If it did break a string, I could change it and have it to pitch in between songs. The simplicity of Klines keyless tuners was one of it's best features.

------------------
Carter D10 8p/10k
www.sinkler.com



Bobby Lee
Sysop

Posts: 14849
From: Cloverdale, North California, USA
Registered:

posted 23 December 1999 09:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Bobby Lee     
My Sierra (built in '96) breaks the 3rd string when it wears out, but other than that it doesn't have a breakage problem. I've heard that some of the earlier 25" Sierras did have a problem though. I think there was a design change that fixed it.

I agree that the harmonics are cleaner on a gearless. Also they seem easier to get.

------------------
Bobby Lee www.b0b.com/products
Sierra Session S-12 E9th, Speedy West D-10, Sierra S-8 Lap


DAVID PARKER
Member

Posts: 124
From: Quinlan, Texas USA
Registered: JUL 99

posted 23 December 1999 12:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DAVID PARKER     
Bobby Lee why do you suppose the harmonics was easier? The scale maybe? David

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http://home.att.net/~parker1939/


lakeshrk
Member

Posts: 127
From:
Registered:

posted 23 December 1999 03:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lakeshrk     
Bob-Your getting me excited about playing my Kline again,you should have traded me the sho-bud.My Kline has never had a string breaking problem and it stays in tune better than any steel I ever owned or played.The c-6 neck seems to have a particularly good sound. ls


David Wright
Member

Posts: 1863
From: Modesto .Ca USA.
Registered:

posted 23 December 1999 07:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for David Wright     
I play a keyless also, string breakage is normal but, trying to chang one in the middle of a song is a bitch, I can't see as good as I use to and I striped the allen head last Sat night had back-ups at home so played 11 strings didn't make much difference I only use 7 or 8 strings anyway.

Buddy:
How is the S-12 doing? Do you here much difference in tone from keyless to keyed guita in the Sierra? I do like the way the keyless tunes very positvite.


David Wright
Member

Posts: 1863
From: Modesto .Ca USA.
Registered:

posted 23 December 1999 07:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for David Wright     
Sorry

[This message was edited by David Wright on 12-23-99]



Buddy Emmons
Member

Posts: 1403
From: Hermitage, TN USA
Registered: AUG 98

posted 24 December 1999 09:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Buddy Emmons     
David,
Although the sound in general seems to be cleaner across the board with the keyless guitar, I find an improvement in the bottom end. It's thick and rich and clean as a pin. Less boom and more plume you might say.


DAVID PARKER
Member

Posts: 124
From: Quinlan, Texas USA
Registered: JUL 99

posted 24 December 1999 05:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DAVID PARKER     
Thanks Buddy! Don't know which David you answered,but I think you answered both of us with the same answer. What I seem to get from this information is the longer 25" scale creates a tighter string which produces a cleaner sound. D.P.

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http://home.att.net/~parker1939/

[This message was edited by DAVID PARKER on 12-24-99]



Perry Hansen
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Posts: 852
From: Bismarck, N.D.
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posted 25 December 1999 03:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Perry Hansen     
My Sierra U-12 keyless is, I believe the first 25" neck Don made. Bill Stafford was in on this one, maybe he can set me staight. It has the quality of my old 4 neck stringmaster. Like Buddy says, the low end is awsome but the string breakage is often. I also have a Remington D-10. I have replaced all of the strings four times in three years and only replaced the .011 twice. Bobby B. helped make the Remington so everyone knows the quality of the Steel.
Perry.


Lem Smith
Member

Posts: 1501
From: Fulton, MS. U.S.A.
Registered:

posted 25 December 1999 05:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lem Smith     
Mr. Emmons said...
quote:
It was pretty obvious to me that his Cline keyless had a cleaner and sweeter sound than The Blade.

Wow...that is really hard to comprehend about ANY guitar! The times I've heard you play the "Blade", the sound was incredible. A sound above that would be awesome indeed!!!

Lem

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http://users.50megs.com/steel/home.html


Richard Sinkler
Member

Posts: 2896
From: Fremont, California
Registered: AUG 98

posted 25 December 1999 06:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Richard Sinkler     
I don't know about Buddy's comparison, but I will say that the Kline was the best sounding guitar I ever owned. I currently play a Carter and have also owned 2 ZB Customs, a Fender S-8, and I also have a Super-Pro. I just sold my Kline to Ernie Pollock, so I know it has found a good home. Wife says I only need 1 steel. The best way I can explain the tone of the Kline is that it was "alive" and had "personality". When I bought my Kline in the mid-late 70's, the other guitar I was looking at was an Emmons. They both sounded pretty similar to me and the deciding factor was the tuning of the push-pull as opposed to the all-pull. I have not heard or played any other guitars that played as smooth and had the tone of the Kline. The only reason I didn't buy a new one this year (instead of the Carter) is that Joe Kline stopped making guitars.

------------------
Carter D10 8p/10k
www.sinkler.com



J D Sauser
Member

Posts: 1240
From: Traveling, currently in Switzerland, soon to be either back in the States or on the Eastern part of Hispaniola Island
Registered:

posted 26 December 1999 08:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for J D Sauser     
I think that all these statements prove again, that the only fact that a certain guitar is a "keyless" or a "push-pull" or an "all-pull", with or without "aluminum neck" or "what ever" alone, does not cut the trick.
After what we read here, we might be led to believe, that in order to build a "perfect" dream guitar, we could just put a KLINE-Keyless-tuner on an EMMONS P/P.... now wouldn't that be a great idea? (don't try this at home) ... I don't think so.
What I'm trying to say is, that I firmly believe, that it was not just that keyless tuner on the KLINE, that made it sound as good as so many reported, and that it was not only the P/P-changer that gave the early EMMONS' the sound some of them are still so much regarded for. I was only part of it.
I believe that it's much rather the whole global approach to building a particular guitar that will make it a good guitar or not.. (and then, there is still personal taste as to what is good or not).

... J-D.

[This message was edited by J D Sauser on 12-26-99]



Richard Sinkler
Member

Posts: 2896
From: Fremont, California
Registered: AUG 98

posted 26 December 1999 09:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Richard Sinkler     
Right you are JD. I don't think anyone implied that the Kline sounded so great because of the keyless tuners. It's just one of many things that made it a great guitar. It was a very solidly built guitar. Great wood, machined parts, pickups, etc...
Joe is a true craftsman.

------------------
Carter D10 8p/10k
www.sinkler.com



Roy Thomson
Member

Posts: 2308
From: Wolfville, Nova Scotia,Canada
Registered:

posted 26 December 1999 01:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Roy Thomson     

The only keyless guitar I tried was a 14 stringer. The pedal action was very spongy! I got away from it quickly.

High G# string breakage is another common complaint.

If I was confident those problems were over come and could find a keyless guitar with the
keyless head on the right hand side I would consider acquiring one. It makes more sense to me to have all the mechanics under your chin to make everything more accessable when changing strings, tuning etc. It would also make for a uniquely designed instrument.

Just ramblin'

Roy T.

Pete Burak
Member

Posts: 2750
From: Portland, OR USA
Registered: OCT 98

posted 26 December 1999 01:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Pete Burak     
Having both keyed and keyless guitars, the thing that I really noticed is that it is faster to restring a keyed axe if you pop one during a performance. I don't have a discerning enough ear to notice any drastic change in tone. Playability seems pretty similar. Haven't noticed any big diff in string breakage either. The keyless is easier to fine tune the open notes, though.
Most of my gigs are one set gigs. The need to be able to restring quickly is important.
My main axe is keyless so it didn't take long to find out that disadvantage. I find I replace strings before they break alot more now.



Bobby B
unregistered

Posts: 2750
From: Portland, OR USA
Registered: OCT 98

posted 26 December 1999 05:51 PM           
Roy,
Funny you should say that.....keep your eyes and ears open.....just maybe,,,,,ummmmm?
BB


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