posted 24 February 2000 11:57 AM         

Back in 73, Nesmith was given his own record label (a division of Elektra, I believe) called Countryside. He quickly put together a house band (the same players that were used for Nesmith's "Ranch Stash" album released on RCA), which included Red Rhodes. Two albums were released on Countryside, Red Rhodes' "Velvet Hammer" and Garland Frady's "Pure Country", as well as a handful of singles.

The "Valley Hi" album was also made with these players....but then Countryside was given the shaft. (New management at Elektra didn't have the same ideas as Nesmith, I guess). So, "Valley Hi" was wholly made with 100% Nez/Red involvement, but had to be released on another label.

There was another album with Red from this period that was recorded, but never got released...I believe it was by Steve Fromholz. A single was put out though...

posted 24 February 2000 01:42 PM         

Both produced by Pete Drake, who intoduced her to Nez in the first place. She rec these two albs at Pete's studio with Pete on steel and mainly Nashvile pickers.
Elektra went on to do some pretty good mid 1970's country rock in a progressive mould. And Pete Drake was involved in a lot of it, as was Bobby Black for a time, but it was really at the expense of a great little label.

posted 24 February 2000 07:40 PM         

I met Red Rhodes when I was in college in the early 1960s. I used to visit with him and his family at his home in Sylmar, California. In later years, he remarried and relocated to Van Nuys, California and I also visited his home there.

In 1964 when Fender introduced the Fender 800 (S-10 with up to 10 pedals), Red immediately bought one and he sold me me his Fender 1000 which he had acquired around 1957 (It has a very low serial number).

I saw Red play many time at the Palamino Club in North Hollywood, California and he even allowed me to stand in for him several times when he took a night off. It was a wonderful experience for me to play in that club.

I was also attended Red's Bret concert in Jacksonville, Oregon. I moved to soughern Oregon in May 1992 and when I found out that Red was coming to perform up here, I just had to go.

I met with Red just before the concert started and he got me a "backstage" pass so I was able to watch the entire concert from that view and I also was introduced to all the performers by Red. It was a very exciting evening.

I knew that Red was suffering an illness that ultimately lead to his death but whenever I spoke to him either in person or on the telephone, he always downplayed his personal health problems.

He was a real fine gentleman, an excellent inovative pedal steel guitarist and a great family man.

I will always remember him and I really appreciate reading all the commments the SGF members have posted here about Red.

Of course his legacy is his music and I'm really greatful that much of it has been recorded and can be enjoyed by all.

posted 25 February 2000 02:21 PM         

There were three people who got me hooked on steel guitar, Red, Speedy West, and one of my first instructors, Ernie Ball.

I guess I have to also thank Cal Worthington (used car salesman par excellent) for Cal's Corral - that's where I first saw a PSG and knew that's what I wanted to play some day.

posted 25 February 2000 08:59 PM         

I've heard that 'Ft. Worth I Love You' did well in Texas and that GF had a local hit with it.

Al Gershen, John Gretzinger and others:
Does anyone remember who played at the Pal in the Detours with Red?
I have a list of some of his groups and a little history on the early 1960's Pal' band led by Gene Davis with Red. if anyone's interested I'll post it?

posted 26 February 2000 10:15 AM         

Rumor has it that there was a lot of bad blood between Red Rhodes and Michael Nesmith in the '80s/'90s, as Mike owns (owned?) all of Red's masters from the Countryside sessions, and most likely the Crown sessions (if masters even still exist from those sessions). Apparently, Red wanted to regain control of his recordings, or at the very least, get Nez to license it out to another record company for rerelease. Obviously, neither one happened....although the Countryside album WAS re-released breifly on Alshire in the late 1970s.

For all those that have heard Red's solo albums (not talking session work), which is your personal favorite? Most people seem to prefer "Velvet Hammer"...but I say it's "Once A Day".

Take care!

Joe

posted 27 February 2000 06:42 AM         

I really love "Velvet Hammer", but I could do with a new copy as mine is all but worn out.
I don't have any of the Crown albums, they never made it over here.

The closest there is to a reissue is the fact that Tom Bradshaw leases out the rightsto run off some vinyl versions which he sells.

http://www.songwriter.com/bradshaw/index.html

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[This message was edited by Jason Odd on 27 February 2000 at 06:50 AM.]

posted 28 February 2000 05:12 AM         

Then it hit me...you're Owen Castleman aka Boomer Clarke, member of the Lewis & Clarke Expedition! Believe it or not, I have copies of each of your Colgems 45s (with the picture sleeve) as well as your album.

Thanks for co-writing one of the best tunes EVER..."What Am I Doing Hangin' Round".

A big fan!

Joe

posted 28 February 2000 09:44 AM         

A correction: Jason Odd talked about a couple of Linda Hargrove albums:

quote:

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Both produced by Pete Drake, who intoduced her to Nez in the first place. She rec these two albs at Pete's studio with Pete on steel and mainly Nashvile pickers.

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Both of those albums had a very young Paul Franklin on steel!

posted 28 February 2000 10:21 AM         

I would love to be able to ask you a few questions off the board (since this is off-topic..and my questions wouldn't be steel related). Would you mind sending me an e-mail so that I can contact you? "joealterio@aol.com"

thanks!

posted 28 February 2000 11:50 AM         

I think you'll find that Paul played on her Capitol albums. The following 'apparently' use the following steel players. I'm not sure if Pete played on the LP's that Paul is on, but I'm sure he produced the Capitol albums.

1973 Music Is Your Mistress Elektra
Pete Drake

1974 Blue Jean Country Queen Elektra
Pete Drake & Bobby Black

1975 Love, You're the Teacher Capitol
Paul Franklin

1976 Just Like You Capitol
??

1977 Impressions Capitol
Paul Franklin

Part of the 'Progressive' approach that Elektra tried in the 1973-1977 period {roughly}, was that they credited the sidemen on the albums. A pity they mainly stayed with Nashville acts, but it was a pretty good period with Pete Drake and Elektra.

posted 28 February 2000 05:51 PM         

I could be wrong here Scott, but I think this one is from 1972 and follows Nez losing another band, his third since late '69 and he was feeling a little pressure from RCA around that time to produce some solid hits.
I would have to say that this album and the Flatlanders album from 1971 would have to be two of the most eccentric low key country albums that invented Alterna Country..., that is if anyone had actually heard them.

Geoff, you mentioned the 'Live at the Palomino' alblum. Here's a bit of history on that group, the Detours.

THE DETOURS
There's a lot I don't know about this group, it was basically Red's outfit at the Pal' after Gene Davis split in early 1966 to join Roger Miller's roadband.

By 1966 Johnny Meeks was working with the group.
Interestingly enough, I think that Jerry Cole and Johnny Meeks were continually swapping the role as lead guitarist through 1966 to 1969, both working there at different times.
Johnny Carver would have left around 1966-1967, his first solo album came out in 1967. Other people that worked with the Detours include Earl Ball {piano}, Bobby Wayne {guitar & vocals},
Glen Cass, possibly Lloyd Emmanuel Jr {guitar}. Johnny Paycheck may have swung by there quite a bit at one stage having split Nashville and was basically broke and bumming around the clubs. He actually had one of Red's old steel guitars and used to play steel a bit as well as bass and guitar.
By 1967 Biff Adam who'd been working in the Fresno area for a couple of years in another club band moved to Simi Valley area and joined the Detours. He apparently made a promise that if he didn't get any success within a year he was going to quit, which made me think that maybe the 'Live At the Palomino' LP was cut in 1968.
Anyway the Detours were by 1968 Red Rhodes, Biff Adam {drums}, Dennis Hromeck {guitar & vocals, maybe piano}, Jerry Cole {guitar}, the Cass {Kastner} brothers Glen {bass} and Norm Cass {guitar}
Norm had hit L.A in 1965 and was befriended by Ace Tipton and Garland Frady, working the L.A clubs. While Dennis Hromeck had played bass in Wynn Stewart's group the Tourists in 1967.
Glen Cass first joined the Palomino band back in about 1963 when Jerry Inman, Red, Archie Francis and Glen D. Hardin were in the group being led by Gene Davis.
Anyway, the Red, Biff, Cass bros, Hromeck version of the Detours cut Red's 'Live At The Palomino' album, around 1968, and as you said was Produced by Don Peake and Robert Reiter, and engineered by Bill Halverson. This may have not been released until 1969.
This lineup didn't last either, Cole moved on as did the Cass brothers, Dennis Hromeck apparently was in Ralph Mooney's club band in Las Vegas with Bobby Wayne by early 1969 and by mid 1969 joined Merle Haggard's Strangers.
Looks Bobby Ray {Robert G. Shamblin}was the Palomino bassist around this time as a Detour with Biff.
ACM awards...
1968 *Night Club of the Year* *Palomino Club (North Hollywood, CA)*
1968 *Steel Guitar* *Red Rhodes* **

By 1969 The Detours were Red Rhodes {steel}, Don Holiman {bass}, Garland Frady {acoustic rhythm & vocals}, Biff Adam {drums}, Tom Brooks {nee Holbrooks} {rhythm} and Johnny Meeks on lead vocals, lead guitar and piano.
Don had worked at the Aces Club with Jay Dee Maness, Carl West and Earl Ball in Eddy Drakes band, then in 1968 he worked another club with Gene Davis & the Star Routers, with Gene {guitar& vocals}, Archie Francis {drums} and Jay Dee Maness {steel guitar}
Garland Frady had been around the Pal for years and was a constant winner at the club's talent contest,to the point he was barred just often enough so that he could win once a month!
This version of the group backed Johnny Meeks on an album as JOHNNY MEEKS & THE DETOURS for the album 'Skip A Rope' {1969} on the budget label Custom. While they cut this album Red and Johnny also played on Gene Vincent's 1969 album "I'm Back and I'm Proud'.

Biff didn't leave the Pal until December 1969, or at least that's when he joined Merle Haggard's Strangers, reunting with Dennis Hromeck while Red Rhodes went on to the First National Band in late 1969 with Michael Nesmith.

Email me if you want more on the early 1960's group.

posted 28 February 2000 05:57 PM         

quote:

---

I was fortunate to play guitar in a unique band for a time in the early '70s with TWO steel players at once: Red Rhodes and James O'Rafferty.

---

I have to ask, what sort of band has you on guitar and two steel players!!!!

posted 01 March 2000 02:27 PM         

Thanks for the reply on the 'twin steel' band, Blackie Taylor once told me that he and Sneaky Pete had a twin steel outfit that they worked in, but otherwise twin steel outfits seem pretty rare in SoCal. Bob Wills maybe?
Geoff, thanks for the info on the Pal, I sent you an email about that, as I really wanted to hear more about the time.
By the way, have a good time when you see Merle & the Strangers, Norm Hamlet would be the only one besides Merle that would remember the late 1960's band when Biff, Hromeck {1969} and Bobby Wayne joined {1970}

Jerry Hayes, I sent you an email, about what was possibly 'wrong' with the one I sent you, check the Veiw button at the top of the screen, I wrote to you with more details.

Looks like this post is winding down, well what can I say, over the year I've chatted to some people who've known Red and he was well loved and liked.When I first found out exactly who Red was, it was froma 1979 country music reference book which I borrowed in 1995!
I only found out that Red passed away in late 1998, so I never knew him. But I was saddened all the same as I'd listened to this guy for so many years, Byrds, Monkees etc, but never knew.
Billy Macon thanks for starting this topic.
Regards
Jason Odd

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[This message was edited by Jason Odd on 01 March 2000 at 02:30 PM.]

posted 01 March 2000 09:49 PM         

Man, you do know what you are talking about, as opposed to me, who falls back on my very frail memory! It was those later Linda Hargrove albums that featured Paul (and it was some great work, let me tell you).

I never heard Red play in LA, although I heard many results of his amp handiwork! (his 'doctored' Princeton reverbs were legendary).

posted 23 April 2000 09:03 AM         

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CJC