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Chord Scales the easy way.
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The Steel Guitar Forum
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Chord Scales the easy way.
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This topic was originally posted in this forum: Wanted To Buy |
| Author | Topic: Chord Scales the easy way. |
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Mike Ihde Member Posts: 481 |
posted 05 March 2001 06:10 PM
After reading a lot of posts about scales and modes etc etc. I figured it's time for my 2 cents worth. I try to teach my students at Berklee the simplist way to do things at all times. Chord scales can "seem" really complicated, but, here's an easy way to think of them. BASIC TRUTH: You try to stay in the key you're in at all costs. That means, if a chord shows up with an out of the key note in it, just ram that note into the key you're in and you have the right scale (whether you know what scale it is or not!) for example... In the key of C...an E7 chord shows up....spell the chord...E,G#,B and D...the "NEW" note is G#....add G# to your C scale....you now have C, D, E, F, G#, A and B. That's the right scale to use over E7 in the key of C and that's that. It may be nice to know that it's really an A Harmonic Minor scale in it's 5th mode, but who cares. Your job is to play Chord Tones and fill in with the other notes from the key. next example: In the key of C a Bbmaj7 chord shows up...spell the chord....Bb, D, F, and A....NEW note is Bb...add it to your C scale you get C, D, E, F, G, A and Bb...actual modal name is Bb Lydian or F major, but so what....just play the chord tones of the Bbmaj7 chord and fill in with the other notes from the key of C. It doesn't matter how weird the chord in question is...let's say its G7 (b9b13)...spell the chord...G, B, D, F, Ab and Eb....add the NEW notes Ab and Eb to the C scale and you get...C, D, Eb,F, G, Ab, and B....it happens to be C Harmonic Minor...or G mixolydian b2 b6...big deal! It's fast easy and accurate. of course it presumes you can spell chords (Aha, I new there was a catch!) If you add to this basic way of looking at things these other 3 rules, you pretty much have it covered.(Now I'm not saying this all works 100 % of the time, but it's a lot easier than spending too much time learning rules and not enough time playing) Rule 1. Any non-diatonic (not in the key) minor 7 chord is always a IIm7 in some other key...play major down a whole step (or Dorian if you like modal names). Rule 2. Any non-diatonic Major chord(7 or 6 or 7/6 or 9/6 or 7/9) with a non-diatonic root ( Db, Eb etc)is always a IV chord in some other key...play Major down a fourth or Lydian. Rule 3. Any non-diatonic Major chord WITH a diatonic root is a new I chord...play major from its name or Ionian. (Emaj7, A maj7 etc) That's it in a nutshell. If you have any questions, please write to me at... thephotodoctor@mediaone.net I'll be happy to answer them. |
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Jim Cohen Member Posts: 8715 |
posted 05 March 2001 06:37 PM
Everybody else gets it free?  |
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Dan Tyack Member Posts: 3552 |
posted 05 March 2001 09:01 PM
THanks Mike, that was really valuable for me. I'm definitely going to use some of that approach. Of course, that doesn't exactly work for a song like Giant Steps, but then again, Tommy Flanagan couldn't play that song either. :) |
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Mike Ihde Member Posts: 481 |
posted 05 March 2001 09:20 PM
Dan, Actually it applies perfectly well to Giant Steps. Look at the first 2 chords...B to D7...the D7 has the NEW notes of D natural, A natural and a C natural....add those to the B scale and you get G melodic minor or D lydian b7. Either way the system works. Of course, it's going by so damn fast you'll be lucky to get 2 or 3 notes out.  |
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Dave Burton Member Posts: 213 |
posted 05 March 2001 10:02 PM
Thanks Mike for this post.This kind of stuff I really can understand and utilize. I remember Jeff N saying,you don't need to know all the notes in a chord they know what they are!That makes sense to me,I quess I have played by ear most of my life. Dave |
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P Gleespen Member Posts: 751 |
posted 06 March 2001 06:16 AM
That's a pretty nifty post there, Mike. I wish some of my Harmony teachers had laid that out so simply back in my school daze! |
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Bob Hoffnar Member Posts: 4278 |
posted 06 March 2001 06:50 AM
MIke, Thanks for the info ! I don't quite understand rule #2 though. Could you give a couple examples out of the real book ? Bob |
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Sandy Martin Member Posts: 84 |
posted 06 March 2001 07:39 AM
That was REALLY cool, Mike...now, all I gotta do is figure out where my G# is, and I'm all set......see ya in jazzland....  |
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Tim Harr Member Posts: 1589 |
posted 06 March 2001 09:28 AM
I am glad to see more steel players that understand theory. So many (steel players I hear) just want to learn "licks" and are lost when it comes to playing something outside the norm (country). Thanks Mike! |
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Mike Ihde Member Posts: 481 |
posted 06 March 2001 09:50 AM
Bob, In "Spring can really hang you up the most" in bar 13, the chords are Cmaj7 to Bbmaj7. Bbmaj7 is a non-diatonic major chord (doesn't belong in the key of C) and it's root is non-diatonic. Treat it like a IV chord and play Lydian or Major down a fourth. Or apply the EASY RULE and just add the note Bb to your C scale and you're all done. |
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Andy Volk Member Posts: 2966 |
posted 06 March 2001 11:04 AM
Thanks, Mike. This is a nice way of thinking about improvisation. I have a video by the late jazz guitarist, Emily Remler who basically felt that all that theory made her head hurt. She worked it out so she played major scales for major chords and jazz minor scales for minor and dominant. Up a fifth, if the chord was going home to the tonic, up a half step if the chord was headed somewhere else. Jazz with just two scales - pretty hip. Now if I could just clone her lyrical melodicism! |
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Rich Sullivan Member Posts: 46 |
posted 06 March 2001 01:04 PM
Mike, I need help with Rule 3. Take E7 in the key of C, as in your first example. According to rule 3, you would play an E major scale, which is different from the "easy rule" example. Please clear this up for me. Thanks, Rich |
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Drew Grice Member Posts: 194 |
posted 06 March 2001 01:04 PM
I'd alsways thought that the simplist way to do a harmony scal, 2 or 3 string, was to play the 1,4 & 5 major chords and the rest minors. That has always worked for me. |
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Mike Ihde Member Posts: 481 |
posted 06 March 2001 03:24 PM
Rich, Rule 3 is only for Major 7 chords, not Dominent 7 chords. |
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Bob Hayes Member Posts: 951 |
posted 07 March 2001 06:09 AM
My 2 cents worth. I'm just an adequate (or sometimes not quite adequate) picker..I'm not much on "book theory"..Can't read music..used to a long time ago..but I am a chord man. I thinke the best way to approach pickin' is position. I learned that from some one a long time ago. You can learn you're chords in one position..and it works all the way up the neck. Although there are various positions for the same chords..it still remains true..I play with a band now that uses thier Capos' on nearly every other song.. If I had to remember notes..I could never make it..but position....it's all relative..Who has time to think notes..when you're pushing pedals and knee levers plus trying to get the right strings and licks. My hat is off to those who DO know the notes and theory...but live action is the main thing and it has to be spontanious.. Does any one else have the same approach..or am I alone in the wilderness? :confused |
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Bill Fulbright Member Posts: 434 |
posted 07 March 2001 07:07 AM
Mike, Great post. When I went to music school, I was a comp/theory major. What you say is the only way it can be and still sound "good". Other tones can be played as "leading" or "passing" to make things interesting, but the basic rules of theory work. Only problem is when you are playing live, you don't have time to think about too much theory. You have to have it in your body and hands so you just "know" so that when improvising or comping it will fly. Practice, practice, practice!!! ------------------ 1998 Sierra U12 7x5; Line 6 POD; Yamaha P2100 amp; 2 Bose 802 cabs; Schecter Strat; Gibson ES-165; Peavey Classic 50-410. |
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Jeff A. Smith Member Posts: 807 |
posted 07 March 2001 01:06 PM
There are some ideas in this that I am going to E-mail you about, Mike. Definently some new things I'd like to know more about. It does seem like it's pretty heavily biased toward the kind of musician that is likely to show up at Berklee; maybe years of standard notation so that they have instantaneous recall of key signatures. Thinking that it is preferable to change the notes in the B scale in a tune like Giant Steps...I've heard of people just playing through that using the B, G, and Eb major scales. On the second chord, D7, one just switches to the key of G, and after that the key changes after every two or three chords. If somebody put a chord chart in front of me that I had no time to analyze at all, I would just play major, minor seventh, and dom. 7th type scales around basic chord shapes, and alter a note here and there as needed. Maybe a dim. or aug. fragment if called for. If there was more time, then I might expand into thinking this mode down a whole step or up a fifth from this or that chord, stuff like that, to give me more possibilities.
I sincerely appreciate someone in your position sharing his perspective, one so different from my own. Consider my mind expanded. [This message was edited by Jeff A. Smith on 07 March 2001 at 01:23 PM.] |
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