The Steel Guitar Forum
Pedal Steel Archive
Tuning by ear (Page 1)
UBBFriend: Email This Page to Someone!
profile | join | preferences | help | search
Steel Guitar Strings Strings & instruction for lap steel, Hawaiian & pedal steel guitars http://SteelGuitarShopper.com |
Ray Price Shuffles Classic country shuffle styles for Band-in-a-Box, by BIAB guru Jim Baron. http://steelguitarmusic.com |
This Forum is CLOSED. |
|
|
The Steel Guitar Forum
Pedal Steel Archive
Tuning by ear (Page 1)
profile | join | preferences | help | search
|
| This topic is 2 pages long: 1 2 This topic was originally posted in this forum: Pedal Steel |
| Author | Topic: Tuning by ear |
|
Matt Hutchinson Member Posts: 219 |
posted 14 August 2000 06:05 AM
I've been playing steel for a few weeks & try to tune by ear as much as possible. My question is this - do you guys have a set method for doing this? I've noticed that you can tune a string to another til it sounds fine but it will be slightly out with a different string. Is there a way of tuning certain combinations of strings to each other to minimise differences (does anybody tune using harmonics for example). Any thoughts or opinions greatly appreciated. |
|
Jeff Lampert Member Posts: 2636 |
posted 14 August 2000 07:00 AM
Matt, Do a Forum Search over the last couple of months for tuning subjects. There are loads of topics and postings. There are two fundamental camps, the "ET" (Equal Temperament) which tunes strings and pedals to 440, and "JI" (Just Intonation) which tunes out the "beats". Search out Bobby Lee's topic on "Non-Critical Tuning Theory (NCT)". Good Luck. |
|
Jim Smith Member Posts: 6399 |
posted 14 August 2000 07:42 AM
Matt, what you have discovered is that it's impossible to tune all the strings beatless with each other.  Thus the ongoing discussions on ET vs. JI. |
|
C Dixon Member Posts: 5912 |
posted 14 August 2000 07:49 AM
Matt, Welcome to the world of Steel Guitar and "mass cofusion" when it comes to the subject of tuning the contraption. If you ever find a way to do it to your total satisfaction, I strongly suggest you do what I once heard Chet Atkins say on stage, "IF I ever get this guitar in tune, I am going to solder it!!" God bless you, carl |
|
KEVIN WALKER Member Posts: 208 |
posted 14 August 2000 03:10 PM
Matt, Buddy Emmons' has a harmonic or chime tuning chart available. I've always tuned my E's straight up; chime tuned the other open strings, and tuned all changes by ear. |
|
Bill Wilson Member Posts: 449 |
posted 14 August 2000 10:07 PM
http://www.b0b.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/008002.html [This message was edited by Bill Wilson on 14 August 2000 at 10:14 PM.] |
|
Randy Reimer Member Posts: 876 |
posted 14 August 2000 10:12 PM
I tried tuning by ear but never could get my earlobe to move them there tuning machines. ___ Tom Bradshaw had a harmonic tuning chart, which is quite useful |
|
Matt Hutchinson Member Posts: 219 |
posted 15 August 2000 01:46 AM
Thanks guys, now all I need is a reliable pair of ears. |
|
Jerry Miler Member Posts: 66 |
posted 15 August 2000 08:27 PM
I have always tuned by ear see what you guys think it works for me, tune my E's with tuner then I tune peds up strings 8,4,5,6,10,3. in that order off of the 4&8 strings then I tune peds down same strings (tuning out the beats)then the rest of the strings off of the 4 string abd 5 string ped down now latley I have been tuning my E's up a few semitone to match the band I can't figure out if it is the bass player or keys. well what do you guys think? Jerry |
|
Ricky Davis Moderator Posts: 6522 |
posted 15 August 2000 10:32 PM
Hey Jerry I would venture to say that if you tuned your E note to the tuner-440 and then tuned the rest by ear like you say; than your "A" note "B" pedal down, will be flat to A-440; which is what the rest of the band is tuned to. I make sure my "A" note is 440 and tune the rest of the guitar to it by ear and that plays in tune with the band much better. ------------------ |
|
Jerry Miler Member Posts: 66 |
posted 17 August 2000 08:02 PM
Thanks Rickt I will try that and see how that works I have noticed the when I tune that way as a band (all playing) it sounds in tune but when the keys and me are playing I am about a 1/4 fret off and I have to adjust my bar untill everybody else comes in do you think this will solve the problem? Jerry |
|
Ricky Davis Moderator Posts: 6522 |
posted 18 August 2000 01:47 AM
Yes Jerry that is always my main concern to be in tune with the Piano. If you make sure your "A" note is 440 within the "A" chord; you will find playing in tune with the piano will be much much easier. Guitars and fiddles and what ever anyone else is playing on stage will always change in their tuning up and down the neck(s) all night long; but the piano is locked in and you need to be in tune with it and it's tuned to "A" 440 and so that is where I start> "A"440. Ricky ------------------ |
|
Bobby Lee Sysop Posts: 14849 |
posted 18 August 2000 08:51 AM
Ricky, that's the best tuning advice I've ever heard. Make sure your A is in tune with the A440 of the piano. Simple, isn't it? Thanks! I don't think it matters a whole lot how you temper your steel, or whether you use a tuner or tune by ear. If that A440 isn't in tune with the piano, you won't sound in tune with the band. That's the bottom line. ------------------ |
|
Bill Terry Member Posts: 1021 |
posted 18 August 2000 09:07 AM
Ricky, Why don't you post that tuning procedure you give to your students? I use that exclusively now and it's a step by step guide. BT ------------------ |
|
C Dixon Member Posts: 5912 |
posted 18 August 2000 09:22 AM
Ricky, I could not agree with b0b more. That is sound (no pun intended For those of you that may wonder why. It is due to two totally different things when combined together that makes this happen IMHO: 1. Cabinet drop with A and B down causes that 4th string to drop quite a bit. So the corresponding A note is FLAT with the piano, IF, one tunes the E note to the piano. 2. Since most steel players tune JI, that 3rd (C#) is just toooooooooooo flat with the piano considering the first reason above. So by having the A with the piano, it makes the "clash of the 3rds" less perceptible. My opinion of course. Again your advice Ricky is just great. For those of you who have not tried it, do it. You will love it I predict. God bless you in any case, carl |
|
Ricky Davis Moderator Posts: 6522 |
posted 18 August 2000 02:11 PM
Well thanks guys and Bill I don't have that particular sheet with me out here on the road for the weekend; but I do have a nice explaination of how I tune, that I gave a student in a e-mail. Here it is. " Anyways here is my perception on tuning the pedal steel and has been a 180 degrees turn since my mentor Gary Carpenter enlightened me on playing in perfect tune. [This message was edited by Ricky Davis on 18 August 2000 at 02:16 PM.] |
|
Kenny Dail Member Posts: 2583 |
posted 18 August 2000 09:02 PM
Ricky, like all the rest of the posters, I also agree with your method of tuning. Have you ever considered or do you split the difference between the E with no pedals and the E with pedals. For instance if you are 2 cents (442) sharp with no pedals and @ 440 with pedals, how about tuning to 339 with pedals and the the sharped note then would only be 441. I have used this technique in the studio or when tuning is "critical" but in a loud noisey bar atmosphere, I am not necessarily that choosy about 1 cent sharp or flat. I have noticed that regardless how sharp or flat the (1 or 2 cents), your instinct takes over and you will automatically adjust with the bar assuming that you are "in tune" with yourself. ------------------ |
|
Kenny Dail Member Posts: 2583 |
posted 18 August 2000 09:03 PM
BTW, I used to play by ear but it sure made my ears sore.  ------------------ |
|
Ricky Davis Moderator Posts: 6522 |
posted 18 August 2000 11:49 PM
Yeah Kenny the whole pedal steel experience is ever changing and compensating here and there with bar or pressure. I do cheat the E note here and there and the f# note here and there too. But when it comes down to it; your ear is the best tool as you move up and down the neck and I can see how that ear can get sore now pal>  Ricky ------------------ |
|
Matt Hutchinson Member Posts: 219 |
posted 22 August 2000 02:32 AM
A big thankyou to everybody who posted replies to this topic. This forum is a great resource & is much appreciated (especially in the places where steel players are few & far between). Keep up the good work all of you. |
|
Jerry Miler Member Posts: 66 |
posted 22 August 2000 08:05 PM
Ricky I will try that with the A 440 thing and see hoe that works but I might be already doing it because my E's are up a few cents already, I will let you know how it goes stay tuned. Jerry |
|
rayman unregistered Posts: 66 |
posted 22 August 2000 08:56 PM
What a great post Rickie! This just how I have been tuning and it came about by tuning by ear and then examining the meter. Right on! |
|
rayman unregistered Posts: 66 |
posted 22 August 2000 09:04 PM
Sorry I mispelled your name Ricky. |
|
John Lacey Member Posts: 1843 |
posted 23 August 2000 08:51 AM
I remember being close to J.D. Maness when he tuned by ear. I believe he used the tuner for his E note, then tuned the rest by ear. If you have your method down right, and the ambient sound isn't too bad, it can be very quick and accurate. Thru noisy bars and laziness we've probably been depending on tuners too much. |
|
John Steele Member Posts: 2469 |
posted 23 August 2000 01:45 PM
I think Ricky's point is well taken too. Al Brisco has been advocating tuning your A chord, pedals down, for a long time. Alot of people he suggested it to have found it to be a bit of a revelation. I noticed once that Bruce Bouton suggested when tuning your open strings, do it pedals down when possible (i.e. your E string) for cabinet drop reasons. -John |
|
Dan Tyack Member Posts: 3552 |
posted 23 August 2000 11:53 PM
Another way to do what Ricky says is to tune the E note with the piano, but with the pedals down (for cabinet drop issues, as others have said). ------------------ |
|
Jerry Miler Member Posts: 66 |
posted 30 August 2000 06:44 PM
Hey Ricky It Works! I tuned my A note 6th string B ped down and it works GREAT!!!! Thanks ricky for the advice! Jerry |
|
Moon in Alaska Member Posts: 1155 |
posted 30 August 2000 09:17 PM
I tune a lot like Ricky. My E's turn out about 441.5 useing that method. Lately I have tuned straight up 440 for a while, and could play in tune, but hated it when just strumming the strings !!! I think if we finally realize -- it is ALL a compromise, it will not bug us as much. When I use the different methods, my guitar plays quite different, but as long as I am baring it, I make do.For the newer guys -- just keep on keeping on !! ------------------ |
|
Ricky Davis Moderator Posts: 6522 |
posted 30 August 2000 10:44 PM
Man that's great Jerry; that's what I like to hear pal. Thanks everyone for kind words but I didn't come up with that; I just explained what I was taught by my mentor "Gary Carpenter" which I have countless tapes of his live performances and studio work and on probably a million notes he has played; "Not one note was ever OUT OF TUNE". Gary is a true master of the pedal steel and has perfect pitch and was kind enough to tell me I was "OUT OF TUNE" and worked with me on it. So spreading what I am enlightend on; is what all of our obligations are to this instrument. Ricky |
|
Jim Bob Sedgwick Member Posts: 1234 |
posted 03 September 2000 08:11 PM
After a six-pack, EVERYTHING SOUNDS in tune.  ( Well, sort-a) |
|
Lindley Member Posts: 247 |
posted 10 September 2000 08:05 AM
You mean I have to actually tune this thing when I play it? I thought it was in tune when it came from the factory...I don't know about all this. ------------------ |
|
Ric Epperle Member Posts: 1490 |
posted 11 September 2000 10:24 AM
quote:
quote: No truer words were spoken.. [This message was edited by Ric Epperle on 11 September 2000 at 10:26 AM.] |
|
Buck Grantham Member Posts: 1874 |
posted 13 September 2000 09:05 PM
Thanks Ricky, That's good info. Some times it takes a new player 15years to find something like this out about tuning. Some of the pros could use this . |
|
Jerry Miler Member Posts: 66 |
posted 15 September 2000 07:02 PM
Right Ric E. it works I have been playing it for a while now and it does well. Jerry |
|
Jeff Hyman Member Posts: 375 |
posted 18 September 2000 07:35 PM
Question for Ricky Davis: Does the approach of the A440 a better way of tuning, or only a better way of tuning if there is a piano in the band? I like your concept. I tend to tune my E's and B's to 440 then get the beat out of my G#'s. My A/B pedals are after that. Last, I tend to not want to play with piano in a band, as 99% tend to bang on those darn keys all night long. So... I'm curious of the advantage of your concept if Piano is not in the loop. Thanks! |
|
Ricky Davis Moderator Posts: 6522 |
posted 18 September 2000 11:23 PM
Hey Jeff there is no piano in the Dale Watson band. But sometime in the studio we use one. But more than likely I think it is good practice to tune to A 440; because on the pedal steel(unless you have counterforce) if you tune to E 440; your A chord will be flat>so all pedal down chords will be flat; unless you compensate with bar. As the orchestra says: "it's ok to be sharp; but never ok to be flat". And then there are the players that come in the band and play in perfect tune(fiddlers; guitars and yes some do play in perfect tune) and they are tuned to A 440 cause that is what tuners are calibrated to. I hope this makes since. In our band is it just me on steel; a bass player; Dale on Guitar and a drummer. It can be difficult to play in tune with Dale all night; because both our guitars are ever changing and the bass player in our band is always perfect; so I have to be as perfect as I can which again "is" A 440. I also do pleanty of other studio work and I have to be A 440 or I'm out on my "ear" cause some of those guys are perfect alllllll the time; so I need to be as in tune with them as I can and the open E chord being a little sharp always passes in the mix; but a flat open A chord "NEVER DOES".Have fun. Ricky [This message was edited by Ricky Davis on 18 September 2000 at 11:29 PM.] |
|
Gary Steele Member Posts: 1201 |
posted 19 September 2000 08:30 AM
Ricky, Do you feel that with these new strobe tuners if you get this tuning down where you like it and program your tuning in, Because these 490 auto strobe tuners will fine tune right where you want them. Do you think this tuning will be consistant all the time. I got in a rut i guess you would call it a rut years ago tuning to a strobe to what was called the Nashville tuning i think J. Newman put out. I was talking to Jerry Miller here local and he said he dont rely on the tuner all the way, And i figure other people do the same, But at the same time if you program this sweet spot in the tuner shouldn't it be pretty much exact all the time? I hope i'm making this easy to understand, If not let me know. I would like to have everyones honest opinion about this. I'v tuned several steel players steel down thru the years to this tuning and i think they all liked it. Jerry Miller just told me he like it except his G#'s TO A Hopefully everyone will give some input. Thanks much Gary Steele |
|
Ricky Davis Moderator Posts: 6522 |
posted 19 September 2000 10:24 AM
Hi Gary; I'm sorry I am just not familiar with those tuners. If I'm to understand you; are you saying that when you have your guitar tuned like you want it; then you can kinda mark it(program) it in that tuner, so you just make each note line up on the strob? Anyway; if that's how it works, I'm sure that's fine because after you know how to tune your steel; than I guess you can mark it; and in essence that is what I do on my Boss tuner for the times I don't get to tune by ear. But I do tweek some notes here and there while I'm playing and I think that is all do the the idea that the bands tuning and mine ever changes through the night and I don't run a tuner in line. The A 440 is where I start and the ear is where I finish. Ricky |
|
Ben Jack Member Posts: 393 |
posted 19 September 2000 02:42 PM
If anyone decides on one of the Peterson strobe tuners I'll give you a super deal on it. benjack@intellex.com |
|
Jeff Hyman Member Posts: 375 |
posted 19 September 2000 03:53 PM
Ricky... your point is well taken. I'll give it a try. I play Friday at http://www.TheGreatFrederickFair.com and it will be my first time to play with the tuning. I'll let you know how it goes. See ya later, |
| This topic is 2 pages long: 1 2 All times are Pacific (US) | This is an ARCHIVED topic. You may not reply to it! |
Note: Messages not explicitly copyrighted are in the Public Domain.
Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.46
Our mailing address is:
The Steel Guitar Forum
148 South Cloverdale Blvd.
Cloverdale, CA 95425 USA
Support the Forum
Bobby Lee - email: