------------------
“I always knew that there was something out there that I needed to get to.
And it wasn't where I was at that particular moment."
-Bob Dylan

Where has that been read or heard recently? And the "which he is not" was unecessary, and just the sort of dig that proves a lot of the points regarding opinions of RR - throw knives wherever one can, even when totally unecessary. What WAS the need to point that out?

It appeared that many of the points in that post mainly served to enhance those of the opposing view.

" Personally I'd still pay to see him if he would just wouldn't play into the left wing media hype about his status. "

And this one just piles on the absurdity. Can someone please provide some evidence to back up the view of an apparent left-wing consipracy theory tie-in to RR's pedal steel playing?

As far as I'm aware, RR has never said he's the world's best pedal steel player - so perhaps folks should give that idea a rest. Why in the world should it matter to anyone if someone else thinks he is? It's their opinion, and they are entitled to it - not obligated to voice it only if deemed correct by members of this forum, country players, "rednecks" (whoever they are) or anyone else, which is what seems to be the implication.

The simple fact that folks get negatively stirred up by the success of a fellow musician who plays an instrument that's underrecognized and could use ANY exposure is, in my view, ludicrous. And face it - if he was a white guy playing country music the same people would be cheering, not getting pi&$ed....

One last point - it seems that most of the heavy-hitter pro players welcome and enjoy guys like RR. It seems to be the peripheral not-quite-made-it-to-the-big-leagues players who sit in front of their computers and whine about him.

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martin abend Pedal-Steel in Germany
s-10 sierra crown gearless 3 x4 | GiMa squareneck

He is a musician, younger,from a newer generation.

He really had no idea about the Steel Guitar Community, just the rumours that everyone hated RR, which I assume he got from RR..I guess..

I guess I failed at informing him that the Steel Guitar Community does not HATE RR. Quite the contrary...

Our conversation covered lots of ground, more in the historical prosepective. I come from a much older generation of Music than he does.

I have no way of knowing what that Redneck comment is all about..I would have preferred it was not stated..

I told the author that there are so many types of music out there , and so many types of musicians that it would be impossible to get an accurate read on whats up.

I kind of equated it to talk radio..

1,000,000 are listening and 25 people call in...and even those 25 are screened.

Sure there are a few that do not like RR's music and may be off there cliff because it is not Pure Country..

But so what ?

I play Country and many people think I stink !

Who really cares...

I have read countless articles on other Forums where they thought Brad and Brent were stuck in the Chicken Pickin mode and didn't care for them as players...

I guess this entire RR thing will be with us for years..so I would ask..

RR, as a Musician, ( and a fine one at that ) are you thinking everyone is gonna love your Music ? And there will never be a bad review ?

Years back, when Robben Fords first album ( Daughters) hit the streets, a GP reviewer called Robben a Clapton clone..clearly beat up the CD and Robben as a player..

Any "Musician Guitar player worth his salt" who listened to Robben play..would never have come away with that notion...quite the contrary..

Not everyone is gonna like everyone elses Music..

Anyone one who is dissing the "MUSICIAN Personally" is going down the wrong raod anyway...

and they are in the minority anyway..

t

[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 18 April 2006 at 05:23 AM.]

quote:

---

RR may well have meant that a lot of the country players don't kike his playing when he said they don't like him.

---

Personally, I like anything that has heart, soul, artistic merit and positive energy. RR gets A+ on all four.
In an age when a lot of mainstream black "music" glorifies violence, racism and degradation of women, Robert Randolph sings about love - and he plays the heck out of that steel guitar!

He doesn't go around putting down other players even after being repeatedly crucified by some of them. He'll probably never post here and I can't say as I blame him.
It's our great loss.

There is a lot more to RR's show than steel playing. It's called showmanship, and that's a whole talent in itself. Many steel players are more comfortable with the poker face look, and I think some of the old school find RR to be too radical in his stage persona.

he has fans here..

Don't they count ?

OR will a Musician just focus on the negative reviews and be done with it...

Don't they count ?"

Of course. But it's always tue that you (the victim) tend to notice the criticism/insults far more than the praise.

And there have been many, many, one-line insults (like the "he can do his cacophany on 6 strings" or whatever it was) tossed out by simply mean people. Those things have a bite, and it takes a lot of "I think he's cool" posts to overcome one "he sucks" message".

I sincerely wish he WOULD post here. But if he's read the beatings dished out on folks who don't want to learn country, or who play unusual instruments, or who don't
"toe the line" and play like the majority, I wouldn't blame him for just lurking and reading.

quote:

---

he has fans here..
Don't they count ?
OR will a Musician just focus on the negative reviews and be done with it...

---

I also have a number of vehement detractors..

I would personally dig meeting you. Your energy is incredible. I wouldn't care if you flailed your steel with a guitar strap, I would dig it.

If I were you--what would bug me most is reading myself being talked about, rather than being talked to.
So here's a personal invitation to join up and FIGHT BACK! Except I know you're not a fighting man.

You would join the ranks of 'steel guitarists we love to pick on, including Jerry Garcia and B.J. Cole (from another new topic). We love controversy here, unless it's about Buddy Emmons, Lloyd Green, Curly Chalker, Paul Franklin, et. al.

RR is the only steel player that I have ever seen in the history of the instrument that can pack an arena. He is obviously giving the masses what they want to hear. I wish him nothing but continued success. Every steel player should do the same.

Anyone that bashes what another man does for a living, or bashes an artists art, is very small minded. I used to be that way myself, but I think I've learned a few things along the way. Not only has RR gotten a bad shake around here, but go check out all the negative stuff written on this forum about Big and Rich. Some of their stuff is not really to my liking, but who am I to bash them. At least they are out playing in front of big crowds and I bet they are having a ball. I notice that James Pennebaker doesn't post here much anymore. He is B&R's steeler. I'm sure he doesn't feel welcome here anymore either. It's a darn shame.

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Zum U-12 w/True Tone pickup thru a Nashville 112
Strats thru a VHT Super 30
http://community.webshots.com/album/176544894AuXSmi
jonchristopherdavis.com

www.lonestarattitude.net

"The next day the two men (Green & Randolph) met again at the shop (Steel Guitar Nashville, in 2001) to collaborate casually. Green sat down before his ten-string Sho-Bud LDG...and played some elementary country licks. Now it was Randolph's turn to be impressed. He had evidentally missed the whole history of the pedal steel as played out on fifty years of country records. He was interested to hear what Green would do with "Amazing Grace" and asked if they might trade choruses on it.

Green picked up his bullet-shaped bar. Cocking his head a couple of degrees, as in calm concern, eyes judicially surveying the span of the fretboard, lower body guiding knee levers and volume and a trio of pitch-changing pedals, his whole frame rapt with physical and intellectual challenge, he looked less like a musician than a twitchy chess master. But what came out of his amplifier didn't sound cerebral or strategized, it bore no marks of the complex mechanics of its birth. The notes honored the hymn's melody, dressing it as though for church-with care, no knockout ornamentation. The tempo was reserved, the rythmic feel weightless, the intonation spot-on. All the hoary country-steel effects-swells, glissandi, palsied left-hand vibrato-were, as it were, soft-pedaled. At the end of the chorus, Randolph was in tears."

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Mark

[This message was edited by Mark Eaton on 18 April 2006 at 09:51 AM.]

-perhaps the writer felt compelled to mention that because for the most part country has been the ONLY musical context in which steel was included. 50 years of country steel is HIGHLY relavent in a musical context because that Jim, like it or not, is the history of this instrument. Sure take it and run with it where-ever you wish, but to deny or ignore purposefully the history of any instrument you wish to play is not a positive IMHO.

[This message was edited by Ben Jones on 18 April 2006 at 10:45 AM.]

Lloyd asked Robert, during their initial meeting, "have you ever heard of Buddy Emmons?" RR answered "No". The next line is: "Thank God." Green smiled warmly. "You haven't been contaminated by any of us."

Later in the article, Fulks writes that "the 1970's look like the last time in country music when personal artistry and commercial values could co-exist. He refers to the "Muzik Mafia" and states that "country has gained a bigger, younger audience, but has lost something heartfelt and handmade...As it approaches absolute mechanical sophistication, it grows less worthy of our emotional attachment. It sure wouldn't make Robert Randolph cry."

The next paragraph:

"I don't know if Lloyd Green would agree with these sentiments about the decline of his genre. His own view of the future of the pedal steel is troubled.

Green:

"The instrument's really in a quagmire. The way it's played and sounds is stereotypical. It's like verbal placeholders in conversation, when you start saying uh-uh because you aren't able to say anything substantive. If it doesn't end up getting totally discarded, you might hear it come around in jazz, or blues.'"

Ominous sounding words, from one of the great masters of the instrument!

It's not all pessimism from Lloyd, one needs to read the entire article. Jim, I provided these quotes so that you and others could see that in fact the "50 years of country bla, bla" is relevant to the whole story Fulks is trying to get across.

Well as long as we are splitting hairs, let’s look at what RR actually said.

quote:

---

"A lot of those guys in Nashville hate my guts," says an emphatically disappointed Randolph. "All these redneck dudes calling me every name in the book."

---

He starts off saying “A lot,” not all. That’s not a “blanket statement.” It is a loose subjective statement of his impression that a number of people dislike him. You can’t even read into that whether he thinks it is a majority or minority. It’s just more than a few. By “those guys in Nashville,” he seems to be using “Nashville” the same way everyone else does, to mean country players in general. It seems far fetched to think he believes his detractors only live in Nashville.

He thinks they “hate his guts.” That’s a figure of speech. But it certainly speaks to his subjective perception. Is he being paranoid and taking it too personally? Not being in his shoes, it’s hard to say. Any psychiatrist will tell you that you are not being paranoid if someone really is out to get you. Some of the opinions expressed against RR’s playing have been thoughtful and fair expressions of musical opinion. That’s fine. This is a free country, and this is a music forum, and part of its purpose is for discussions of musical differences. But there is no question that some of the comments have been hostile, uncivil, snide, and intentionally insulting. If someone said my playing was garbage and cacophony, I’d probably just laugh and agree with them (well maybe not, depends on their tone of voice). I freely admit I’m a hack amateur with limited skill. But a professional musician IS his music. If anyone said the playing of Buddy Emmons, or Paul Franklin, or Tommy White was garbage or cacophony, I can’t believe anyone on this Forum would not think of that as personally insulting to these great musicians. And I’ll bet “Stravinsky or Coltrane or Bach or Satie” also took it personally. Saying you don’t care for a particular type of music is one thing. Calling it garbage and cacophony clearly expresses utter disdain for a professional musician’s years of practice and his serious efforts at making music. It is insultingly dismissive of his skill, his taste, and his person. In fact some posters have specifically denigrated RR’s skill and taste. He is being painted as an unskilled, untalented, tasteless poser. To maintain that these intentionally insulting posts are directed only at his music and not at him is disingenuous, and simply unbelievable. So maybe RR is being a little too paranoid, or maybe it was simply an exaggerated metaphor and he really understands they hate his music and not him. Either way, it would be an understandable mistake.

"All these redneck dudes calling me every name in the book." As Mike points out, “All these” refers to the ones calling him names, not to all rednecks. I’m not among those, so I don’t feel offended by the remark. So technically maybe they called his music names, not him. At least that seems to be true here on the Forum – we really don’t know what has happened to him outside of the Forum. As discussed above, a pro musician eats, sleeps and breathes his music. If you insult his music, you insult him. It’s a completely understandable reaction. This quote is not even a complete sentence. There is a high probability it is taken out of context. But even if RR is exaggerating and being a little sloppy with the language here, he/his music has been attacked. He is being defensive. He is a twenty-something musician, not a government diplomat, and not a seasoned celebrity experienced with the press.

Then finally there is his use of the term “redneck.” Well that’s a whole discussion in itself. That term is kind of like “the n word.” I come from a long line of rural and small-town white southerners myself. I grew up in places with cotton fields on three sides and a bayou on the fourth. I went huntin’ in the big woods, love hound dawgs, stole parts from junkyards, raced cars on the back roads, and drank bootleg and ‘shine. And I attempt to play the ultimate redneck instrument, the you-know-what. So regardless of where I have been since then, there is always some redneck in me. In my experience, African-Americans use that term defensively against those they perceive as acting racist towards them. Understanding the long and complicated history between blacks and white southerners, I take that term with a grain of salt, and don’t get all huffy and offended by it. Used in the context of a perceived racial attack, it’s tit for tat, and its use is understandable, even if I don’t condone it.

Now let’s talk about this “victimization” thing. It is true, and can be a bit irritating, that many African-Americans seem overly sensitive, and sometimes seem to see racism where only plain old rudeness and incivility are present. Considering their burden of hundreds of years of chattel slavery and legalized discrimination, I tend to cut them a little slack, and don’t make a big deal out of it if they overreact a little. But it is also my observation that the kinds of white people who were open racists when I was growing up, now have become very slick at refraining from openly racist terms, but nevertheless, can put a completely obvious racial spin on things. One of their most loved tactics is to make a transparently racist attack – like for example scorning black music and musicians, without actually calling it “jungle music” – then, when someone sees through the transparency and complains about racism, the attacker gets all offended at being accused of racism. The attacker takes the shroud of victimization. Somehow “playing the race card” becomes more offensive than the initial attack that started the whole thing. How perverse. Not saying that is happening here. But there is real victimization, and fake victimization, and most of us can tell the difference.

Now I know at this point b0b is gritting his teeth. But really I think we are all being pretty civil, and this really is an educational musical discussion. And to get right to the music, the writer said what RR is doing is the first time it has been done in 50 years. I believe he means it is the first time in 50 years that a steeler has moved from being a sideman to being the front man of a popular blues-rock act and placing the steel guitar front and center in instrumental rock. That’s completely true, and the writer is no clown. And I don’t see how this in any way discounts all the great steelers in the Hall of Fame who played completely different kinds of music. And as someone above said, if someone doesn’t care for country music, but does like blues-rock, then for them someone like RR can be the greatest steeler of all time (just tells me they haven’t heard the Campbell Brothers).

That is an outstanding article-one of the best I have ever read centered around the pedal steel. It made me like Lloyd Green-and Robert Randolph-all the more!

Required reading for everyone here. We will have a test on Friday.

[This message was edited by Mark Eaton on 18 April 2006 at 11:40 AM.]

quote:

---

The fact is, no other steeler in history has been denounced the way RR has been.

---

Sure they have, and we all know it. None of us has universal appeal, and it's a part of growing up (as my old man told me) to suffer through name-calling and snide remarks from people who don't care for you. Oh yeah, I've even heard famous players make nasty remarks about the likes of players such as Pete Drake and Curly Chalker. So what? Really, it probably made me think less of them, not of Pete and Curly. Maybe I'm alone in this, but I judge a player by how he plays. Everything else is just politics and opinions. I don't "politic", and I'd rather formulate my own opinions than to rely on those of others.

quote:

---

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The fact is, no other steeler in history has been denounced the way RR has been.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sure they have, and we all know it.

---

That's completely untrue. Robert has received more flack, more unfounded criticism than ANY steel player...EVER.

I am not going to count Jerry Garcia, as he was not a professional steel player. It was a side gig for him, nothing more. And even still, he never had his music dogged....just his overall ability.

The fact is, there has NEVER been a 3+ page thread with people denouncing the playing of Pete Drake. Or Curly Chalker. Or any other steel player you may think has been criticized as much as Robert Randolph. And the guy HAS TALENT. LOTS of it! I don't care if he doesn't hit a freakin' pedal or knee lever all night....he knows how to make music.....GOOD music...with his pedal steel. I wish I could do a fraction of what he can do in front of an audience.

You can not like his music....or not like the fact that he may not play his steel like you play yours. But the conversations on this Forum seem to always revolve around a **HATRED** of his music and/or playing style, and that is simply outrageous.

Fact is, there are two very famous pedal steel players that it seems everyone adores on this Forum, and every time I read about how great they are, I just think to myself "I can't hardly listen to his stuff." That doesn't mean they don't have talent, or that their music isn't good otherwise....I jsut don't like their style. And if I were to say something about them, I would be flamed from here to heaven. Yet, many here feel Robert is allowed to endure such harsh criticism. Seems like a double-standard to me....

Joe

[This message was edited by Joe Alterio on 18 April 2006 at 01:42 PM.]

he gave me permission to post it..
here goes:

-------------------------------------------

Tony,

I just read the thread on the Steel Guitar Forum. I'm
sorry if you feel you were misquoted, though I'll admit
that I'm surprised to hear that since I was writing
everything down as you were saying it.

I will agree with you that I left a lot of material out --
all told, we were on the phone for about an hour. Surely
you can understand why Tony Prior saying "I don't buy a
whole lot of CDs these days, and I'm reaching a point where
a lot of music is starting to sound the same. I really
like Eric Clapton, but I don't buy a whole lot of his CDs"
is not an appropriate comment to include in this article,
right? It does speak to the context in which you made
those remarks, but ultimately this is an article about
Robert, not you. I only get a few thousand words to spend,
and the part where you spend forty-two of them setting up a
context for the fact that you don't buy Robert's CDs is not
at the top of my list of priorities.

What happened here is that you gave some very thoughtful,
very insightful commentary on Robert. I tried to include
your commentary on both sides, as it was the smartest
material I got out of the pedal steel players I spoke with.
If you do a search for your name in that article, you come
up with four quotes. Two of them are you expressing your
admiration for what Robert does, and two of them are
explaining the criticisms against Robert.

Regarding not knowing some of the players you mentioned,
yeah, I'll cop to that. But then, I'm a music writer, not
a "steel guitar writer" (whatever that would consist of); I
could probably name lots of metal, electronica, and hip hop
artists that most steel players haven't heard of. There's
a lot of music out there; it's a big task to cover it all,
and I don't think that not knowing everything about everything
qualifies as journalistic incompetence.

For the record, though, I did not get my information on the
backlash against Robert FROM Robert himself. I got it from
reading the Steel Guitar Forum and talking to players
BEFORE my interview with Robert. That may be something for
the "steel guitar community" to talk about.

Thanks for your help with this article, and please feel
free to get in touch if you're so inclined.

-Vijith

---------------------------------------------

There ya have it..

Other than the sentance that was writen about why I don't buy RR Cd's , or any CD's for that matter..I'm ok with what he wrote with my name referenced..as there really isn't that much anyway...

I probably should not have used the word "Idiot" though..that was pretty harsh..but I'm not really certain how that surfaced anyway..general conversation , it was probably just a moment thing...

theres a lot of Music I don't particularly care for and I guess I could be called an idiot for not liking that as well.

I've been called an idiot for a lot less !

t

[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 18 April 2006 at 03:36 PM.]

"For the record, though, I did not get my information on the
backlash against Robert FROM Robert himself. I got it from
reading the Steel Guitar Forum and talking to players
BEFORE my interview with Robert. That may be something for
the "steel guitar community" to talk about."

so the qoute about rednecks in nashville hating him, that was not from Robert? that came from our forum somehow?

I wasnt offended by it, cause Im not a redneck (if I was a redneck whatever that is I would be proud to say so anyway, wasnt there a Redneck Jazz Explosion album..i hear its quite good tooo..heehee), dont live in nashville, and dont really have time to hate anyone least of all a musician whose just doin his thing...just wonderin how the author gets a "quote" from Robert that appears to address the "backlash" directly and then can make the staement above?

[This message was edited by Ben Jones on 18 April 2006 at 03:28 PM.]

quote:

---

Nevertheless, the reception from other pedal steel players is not always so warm. Many seem to be thrilled about the exposure he's giving the instrument, but there are also those who want to see it represented by music more typical of its Americana roots.

"There are a lot of idiots who will say, 'He's not playing country, I won't even listen to that,'" says Prior. "That's just ignorance."

"A lot of those guys in Nashville hate my guts," says an emphatically disappointed Randolph. "All these redneck dudes calling me every name in the book."

---

thats the only word I regret using , but what the heck ..too late now..I don't even recall using it...but I do know it came out of conversation where the author was asking about the negative comments being made about RR..

like they say..

Don't quite my day job!

t

[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 18 April 2006 at 04:13 PM.]

-this is how to give the story a little interest and edge and is a really common tactic. You present your subject, explain why everyone thinks your subject is good or interesting, and then you say "but not everyone feels that way" and then present a counterpoint opinion on your subject, preferably from a faction which is less likeable or on shakier moral ground than the subject, usually followed by the subject overcoming all odds and detractors and "being true to themselves" to win the acclaim of us all eventually.

let me give it a try....

Joe blow is the best most interesting piccolo player in the world. Hes performed for the king of Hibernia, his albums sell millions, the kids love him. But not everyone is a fan. ChurchLady Mildred says "I dont want my kids listening to that evil piccolo playing, its the devils msuic!"..."I understand her reaction in some ways" says Joe Blow, "the piccolo isnt for everyone, but I have to be true to myself and express the music thats in me...

etc etc.

okay maybe I should keep my day job as well and leave the writing to the "pros"

[This message was edited by Ben Jones on 18 April 2006 at 04:35 PM.]

You have your opinion, but it implies you think that since Robert ignored country he's doing a negative thing as well.

Why not IGNORE the country bias and just let people play the darned thing in whatever style they want? Tthe history is irrelevant if you don't apply it, and RR doesn't need to. It doesn't apply to him.

Let it GO. I've said this before - it's a musical instrument - NOT a country instrument. No matter how you try to slant it, or use the history, it doesn't have ANYTHING to do with country from a musical standpoint except by those who PLAY country-based music.

Steinar

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"Play to express, not to impress"
www.gregertsen.com
Southern Moon Northern Lights

I am not one of those people who think the PSG should only be used for country. I am primarily a rock musician okay? There is nothing for me to "let it go" of. Whatever, if you feel it makes you avant garde or that your thinking outside the box by denying any association of this instrument with country music, or by dsimissing traditional techniques (the paitnbrush technique thread)...all I can say is best of luck with that.

[This message was edited by Ben Jones on 18 April 2006 at 05:40 PM.]

quote:

---

That's completely untrue. Robert has received more flack, more unfounded criticism than ANY steel player...EVER.

---

(In my most good-natured tone.)

How the heck would you know?

Sorry, Joe, we'll just have to agree to disagree. You saw a bunch of criticism here on the Forum (by a few dozen players), and probably thought that was the first time a steeler (other than Garcia) had been seriously knocked by other players for the way he played. Well son, I'm here to tell you, you've missed a lot. I know some older and deceased "famous players", and those guys were taking flak over 40 years ago, from famous steelers and from other musicians as well. I heard dozens of comments and digs, and if I heard that many (first-hand, in person remarks), you can bet there were hundreds, if not thousands of similar remarks made. Of course, you had to be there in the music scene 40-50 years ago to hear it, it wasn't on a screen in your living room.

The world of the steel guitar (both the good and the bad) started long before the Forum, long before the internet, and long before Robert Randolph was even born. Yeah, you might know what you've seen and heard...but you sure don't know what I've seen and heard (or what others have seen and heard, for that matter).