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Author | Topic: Robert Randolph article in Hook |
Greg Simmons Member From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada |
posted 17 April 2006 08:46 PM
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I used to dig RR until I saw him pickin' with these dang hippies http://community.webshots.com/photo/548922226/2009839340088050726WOoheE# ------------------ |
Jim Sliff Member From: Hermosa Beach California, USA |
posted 17 April 2006 09:00 PM
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"they just don't like the hype that goes along with him being considered the greatest steel guitar player alive (which he is not)." Where has that been read or heard recently? And the "which he is not" was unecessary, and just the sort of dig that proves a lot of the points regarding opinions of RR - throw knives wherever one can, even when totally unecessary. What WAS the need to point that out? It appeared that many of the points in that post mainly served to enhance those of the opposing view. " Personally I'd still pay to see him if he would just wouldn't play into the left wing media hype about his status. " And this one just piles on the absurdity. Can someone please provide some evidence to back up the view of an apparent left-wing consipracy theory tie-in to RR's pedal steel playing? As far as I'm aware, RR has never said he's the world's best pedal steel player - so perhaps folks should give that idea a rest. Why in the world should it matter to anyone if someone else thinks he is? It's their opinion, and they are entitled to it - not obligated to voice it only if deemed correct by members of this forum, country players, "rednecks" (whoever they are) or anyone else, which is what seems to be the implication. The simple fact that folks get negatively stirred up by the success of a fellow musician who plays an instrument that's underrecognized and could use ANY exposure is, in my view, ludicrous. And face it - if he was a white guy playing country music the same people would be cheering, not getting pi&$ed.... One last point - it seems that most of the heavy-hitter pro players welcome and enjoy guys like RR. It seems to be the peripheral not-quite-made-it-to-the-big-leagues players who sit in front of their computers and whine about him. Caveat - I'm not a huge RR fan. I find what he does fun, nice groove, funky, fun, not technically astounding, a bit repetitive - I'll buy it but not listen to it all the time. But man, has he ridden it to some great exposure, and that can be a winning thing for ALL pedal steel players - if they let it. |
Mike Perlowin Member From: Los Angeles CA |
posted 17 April 2006 11:49 PM
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Bill, I think you're splitting hairs. RR may well have meant that a lot of the country players don't kike his playing when he said they don't like him. That's the vagueries of the English language. We have been told RR reads this forum. If that is so, how can his feeling not be hurt by some of the things that have been written about him and his music here? |
Martin Abend Member From: |
posted 18 April 2006 02:07 AM
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I didn't know that "Rednecks" are their own race. You learn a thing every day. ------------------ |
Tony Prior Member From: Charlotte NC |
posted 18 April 2006 05:21 AM
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The time I spent on the phone with the author, he called twice by the way, was actually very pleasant. He is a musician, younger,from a newer generation. He really had no idea about the Steel Guitar Community, just the rumours that everyone hated RR, which I assume he got from RR..I guess.. I guess I failed at informing him that the Steel Guitar Community does not HATE RR. Quite the contrary... Our conversation covered lots of ground, more in the historical prosepective. I come from a much older generation of Music than he does. I have no way of knowing what that Redneck comment is all about..I would have preferred it was not stated.. I told the author that there are so many types of music out there , and so many types of musicians that it would be impossible to get an accurate read on whats up. I kind of equated it to talk radio.. 1,000,000 are listening and 25 people call in...and even those 25 are screened. Sure there are a few that do not like RR's music and may be off there cliff because it is not Pure Country.. But so what ? I play Country and many people think I stink ! Who really cares... I have read countless articles on other Forums where they thought Brad and Brent were stuck in the Chicken Pickin mode and didn't care for them as players... I guess this entire RR thing will be with us for years..so I would ask.. RR, as a Musician, ( and a fine one at that ) are you thinking everyone is gonna love your Music ? And there will never be a bad review ? Years back, when Robben Fords first album ( Daughters) hit the streets, a GP reviewer called Robben a Clapton clone..clearly beat up the CD and Robben as a player.. Any "Musician Guitar player worth his salt" who listened to Robben play..would never have come away with that notion...quite the contrary.. Not everyone is gonna like everyone elses Music.. Anyone one who is dissing the "MUSICIAN Personally" is going down the wrong raod anyway... and they are in the minority anyway.. t [This message was edited by Tony Prior on 18 April 2006 at 05:23 AM.] |
Rick Alexander Member From: Florida, USA |
posted 18 April 2006 05:22 AM
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quote: What's the difference? If Robert Randolph has read all the vitriolic crap written about him on this forum, how could he not think a lot of rednecks hate him and/or his music? He's a very talented musician and singer, and it doesn't matter if some people find his music not to their taste. There is no style of music that is embraced by everyone. Personally, I like anything that has heart, soul, artistic merit and positive energy. RR gets A+ on all four. He doesn't go around putting down other players even after being repeatedly crucified by some of them. He'll probably never post here and I can't say as I blame him. RA |
Chris LeDrew Member From: Newfoundland, Canada |
posted 18 April 2006 05:24 AM
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Isn't "the best steel player in the world" a subjective thing? There are some people out there who think Bon Jovi is a better songwriter than Bob Dylan. That's totally inaccurate to me, but to a big Bon Jovi fan? Not at all. He/she probably doesn't know who Bob Dylan is, just like most RR fans haven't heard of Buddy Emmons. I'm sure RR's aware he's not as good as Buddy (ah, duh), but he also knows that Buddy will never be as well-known as him on a general population scale. There is a lot more to RR's show than steel playing. It's called showmanship, and that's a whole talent in itself. Many steel players are more comfortable with the poker face look, and I think some of the old school find RR to be too radical in his stage persona. Oh ya, the left-wing thing kind of threw me as well. I thought musicians ("artists") were all supposed to be left-wing. |
Tony Prior Member From: Charlotte NC |
posted 18 April 2006 05:26 AM
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yeah but there has also been written many very positive things and comments about him too.. he has fans here.. Don't they count ? OR will a Musician just focus on the negative reviews and be done with it... I recall a few odd comments but for the most part I have alwasy come away with more positive stuff.. |
Jim Sliff Member From: Hermosa Beach California, USA |
posted 18 April 2006 05:59 AM
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"he has fans here.. Don't they count ?" Of course. But it's always tue that you (the victim) tend to notice the criticism/insults far more than the praise. And there have been many, many, one-line insults (like the "he can do his cacophany on 6 strings" or whatever it was) tossed out by simply mean people. Those things have a bite, and it takes a lot of "I think he's cool" posts to overcome one "he sucks" message". I sincerely wish he WOULD post here. But if he's read the beatings dished out on folks who don't want to learn country, or who play unusual instruments, or who don't This isn't known as the most open-minded forum on the 'net - and that's only realy due to actions of a few. Most people here are incredibly kind and helpful. But if you don't "play the game" you have to be willing to take a beating. |
Rick Alexander Member From: Florida, USA |
posted 18 April 2006 06:04 AM
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quote: He also has a number of vehement detractors, sufficient I'm sure to make him feel unwelcome. If you walked into a room full of 5000 people and a number of them immediately attacked you, would you want to hang out there? I sure wouldn't. |
Tony Prior Member From: Charlotte NC |
posted 18 April 2006 06:09 AM
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oh well.. I also have a number of vehement detractors.. but I still come home every night anyway |
Charlie McDonald Member From: Lubbock, Texas, USA |
posted 18 April 2006 07:31 AM
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HEY ROBERT! I would personally dig meeting you. Your energy is incredible. I wouldn't care if you flailed your steel with a guitar strap, I would dig it. If I were you--what would bug me most is reading myself being talked about, rather than being talked to. You would join the ranks of 'steel guitarists we love to pick on, including Jerry Garcia and B.J. Cole (from another new topic). We love controversy here, unless it's about Buddy Emmons, Lloyd Green, Curly Chalker, Paul Franklin, et. al. I would love to see some new blood here. |
CrowBear Schmitt Member From: Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France |
posted 18 April 2006 07:44 AM
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i sure hope Robert does get around to check us out here on the forum. God Bless Robert Randolph |
Mark Metdker Member From: North Central Texas, USA |
posted 18 April 2006 09:05 AM
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It's a shame that some people here think that the only music anyone would ever play on pedal steel is country music. Ridiculous. RR is the only steel player that I have ever seen in the history of the instrument that can pack an arena. He is obviously giving the masses what they want to hear. I wish him nothing but continued success. Every steel player should do the same. Anyone that bashes what another man does for a living, or bashes an artists art, is very small minded. I used to be that way myself, but I think I've learned a few things along the way. Not only has RR gotten a bad shake around here, but go check out all the negative stuff written on this forum about Big and Rich. Some of their stuff is not really to my liking, but who am I to bash them. At least they are out playing in front of big crowds and I bet they are having a ball. I notice that James Pennebaker doesn't post here much anymore. He is B&R's steeler. I'm sure he doesn't feel welcome here anymore either. It's a darn shame. ------------------ |
Mark Eaton Member From: Windsor, Sonoma County, CA |
posted 18 April 2006 09:50 AM
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Here is another quote from The Journal of Country Music, issue 24.3, from the outstanding article about Lloyd Green, written by musician/producer/songwriter Robbie Fulks. As posted earlier, I can be as cynical about accuracy in journalism as anyone, but I would like to believe that the following story is correct, and if Bobbe Seymour where there that day-it would be great if he could confirm it: "The next day the two men (Green & Randolph) met again at the shop (Steel Guitar Nashville, in 2001) to collaborate casually. Green sat down before his ten-string Sho-Bud LDG...and played some elementary country licks. Now it was Randolph's turn to be impressed. He had evidentally missed the whole history of the pedal steel as played out on fifty years of country records. He was interested to hear what Green would do with "Amazing Grace" and asked if they might trade choruses on it. Green picked up his bullet-shaped bar. Cocking his head a couple of degrees, as in calm concern, eyes judicially surveying the span of the fretboard, lower body guiding knee levers and volume and a trio of pitch-changing pedals, his whole frame rapt with physical and intellectual challenge, he looked less like a musician than a twitchy chess master. But what came out of his amplifier didn't sound cerebral or strategized, it bore no marks of the complex mechanics of its birth. The notes honored the hymn's melody, dressing it as though for church-with care, no knockout ornamentation. The tempo was reserved, the rythmic feel weightless, the intonation spot-on. All the hoary country-steel effects-swells, glissandi, palsied left-hand vibrato-were, as it were, soft-pedaled. At the end of the chorus, Randolph was in tears."
------------------ [This message was edited by Mark Eaton on 18 April 2006 at 09:51 AM.] [This message was edited by Mark Eaton on 18 April 2006 at 09:53 AM.] |
Jim Sliff Member From: Hermosa Beach California, USA |
posted 18 April 2006 10:10 AM
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It sounds like it could be a true story. I'm sure RR would be impressed with Green. I'm also sure Green would enjoy RR, as one of the earliest of the open-minded steel players. Green was one of the few brave enough to join the Byrds on stage at the opry in the late 60's, when the country world was dissing them. I find it funny that the writed had to add the line about the 50 years of bla bla country bla bla. It's only relevant in a country context, not an overall musical one. The fact RR missed the "history" is probably a darned good reason he's filling halls right now...if he was just another country player, he'd neither be as controversial nor as successful. I'm GLAD he missed the history. |
Ben Jones Member From: Washington, USA |
posted 18 April 2006 10:42 AM
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"I find it funny that the writed had to add the line about the 50 years of bla bla country bla bla. It's only relevant in a country context, not an overall musical one." -perhaps the writer felt compelled to mention that because for the most part country has been the ONLY musical context in which steel was included. 50 years of country steel is HIGHLY relavent in a musical context because that Jim, like it or not, is the history of this instrument. Sure take it and run with it where-ever you wish, but to deny or ignore purposefully the history of any instrument you wish to play is not a positive IMHO. [This message was edited by Ben Jones on 18 April 2006 at 10:45 AM.] |
Mark Eaton Member From: Windsor, Sonoma County, CA |
posted 18 April 2006 10:58 AM
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In a thread several weeks ago, I quoted another portion of the article. It was about how before that week in Nashville, RR had never heard of Lloyd Green. Lloyd asked Robert, during their initial meeting, "have you ever heard of Buddy Emmons?" RR answered "No". The next line is: "Thank God." Green smiled warmly. "You haven't been contaminated by any of us." Later in the article, Fulks writes that "the 1970's look like the last time in country music when personal artistry and commercial values could co-exist. He refers to the "Muzik Mafia" and states that "country has gained a bigger, younger audience, but has lost something heartfelt and handmade...As it approaches absolute mechanical sophistication, it grows less worthy of our emotional attachment. It sure wouldn't make Robert Randolph cry." The next paragraph: "I don't know if Lloyd Green would agree with these sentiments about the decline of his genre. His own view of the future of the pedal steel is troubled. Green: "The instrument's really in a quagmire. The way it's played and sounds is stereotypical. It's like verbal placeholders in conversation, when you start saying uh-uh because you aren't able to say anything substantive. If it doesn't end up getting totally discarded, you might hear it come around in jazz, or blues.'" Ominous sounding words, from one of the great masters of the instrument! It's not all pessimism from Lloyd, one needs to read the entire article. Jim, I provided these quotes so that you and others could see that in fact the "50 years of country bla, bla" is relevant to the whole story Fulks is trying to get across. ------------------ |
Jim Cohen Member From: Philadelphia, PA |
posted 18 April 2006 11:08 AM
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Wow. The description of the meeting between Lloyd and Robert is beautifully written. |
Al Moss Member From: Kent,OH,USA |
posted 18 April 2006 11:11 AM
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I'm glad that somebody posted that quote from JCM. It's a great article about L.Green and the meeting/jamming anecdote is lovely... don't tell anybody, but, made me want to well up a bit too . "TheJournal of Country Music", volume 24.3 [This message was edited by Al Moss on 18 April 2006 at 11:17 AM.] |
Mark Eaton Member From: Windsor, Sonoma County, CA |
posted 18 April 2006 11:16 AM
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Al, thanks for adding more. I was getting "typed out." ------------------ |
David Doggett Member From: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA |
posted 18 April 2006 11:18 AM
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(After seeing those LLoyd Green quotes, anything else I have to say seems kind of puny. But I'd already composed this, so here's to beating a dead horse.) Well as long as we are splitting hairs, let’s look at what RR actually said. quote: He starts off saying “A lot,” not all. That’s not a “blanket statement.” It is a loose subjective statement of his impression that a number of people dislike him. You can’t even read into that whether he thinks it is a majority or minority. It’s just more than a few. By “those guys in Nashville,” he seems to be using “Nashville” the same way everyone else does, to mean country players in general. It seems far fetched to think he believes his detractors only live in Nashville. He thinks they “hate his guts.” That’s a figure of speech. But it certainly speaks to his subjective perception. Is he being paranoid and taking it too personally? Not being in his shoes, it’s hard to say. Any psychiatrist will tell you that you are not being paranoid if someone really is out to get you. Some of the opinions expressed against RR’s playing have been thoughtful and fair expressions of musical opinion. That’s fine. This is a free country, and this is a music forum, and part of its purpose is for discussions of musical differences. But there is no question that some of the comments have been hostile, uncivil, snide, and intentionally insulting. If someone said my playing was garbage and cacophony, I’d probably just laugh and agree with them (well maybe not, depends on their tone of voice). I freely admit I’m a hack amateur with limited skill. But a professional musician IS his music. If anyone said the playing of Buddy Emmons, or Paul Franklin, or Tommy White was garbage or cacophony, I can’t believe anyone on this Forum would not think of that as personally insulting to these great musicians. And I’ll bet “Stravinsky or Coltrane or Bach or Satie” also took it personally. Saying you don’t care for a particular type of music is one thing. Calling it garbage and cacophony clearly expresses utter disdain for a professional musician’s years of practice and his serious efforts at making music. It is insultingly dismissive of his skill, his taste, and his person. In fact some posters have specifically denigrated RR’s skill and taste. He is being painted as an unskilled, untalented, tasteless poser. To maintain that these intentionally insulting posts are directed only at his music and not at him is disingenuous, and simply unbelievable. So maybe RR is being a little too paranoid, or maybe it was simply an exaggerated metaphor and he really understands they hate his music and not him. Either way, it would be an understandable mistake. "All these redneck dudes calling me every name in the book." As Mike points out, “All these” refers to the ones calling him names, not to all rednecks. I’m not among those, so I don’t feel offended by the remark. So technically maybe they called his music names, not him. At least that seems to be true here on the Forum – we really don’t know what has happened to him outside of the Forum. As discussed above, a pro musician eats, sleeps and breathes his music. If you insult his music, you insult him. It’s a completely understandable reaction. This quote is not even a complete sentence. There is a high probability it is taken out of context. But even if RR is exaggerating and being a little sloppy with the language here, he/his music has been attacked. He is being defensive. He is a twenty-something musician, not a government diplomat, and not a seasoned celebrity experienced with the press. Then finally there is his use of the term “redneck.” Well that’s a whole discussion in itself. That term is kind of like “the n word.” I come from a long line of rural and small-town white southerners myself. I grew up in places with cotton fields on three sides and a bayou on the fourth. I went huntin’ in the big woods, love hound dawgs, stole parts from junkyards, raced cars on the back roads, and drank bootleg and ‘shine. And I attempt to play the ultimate redneck instrument, the you-know-what. So regardless of where I have been since then, there is always some redneck in me. In my experience, African-Americans use that term defensively against those they perceive as acting racist towards them. Understanding the long and complicated history between blacks and white southerners, I take that term with a grain of salt, and don’t get all huffy and offended by it. Used in the context of a perceived racial attack, it’s tit for tat, and its use is understandable, even if I don’t condone it. Now let’s talk about this “victimization” thing. It is true, and can be a bit irritating, that many African-Americans seem overly sensitive, and sometimes seem to see racism where only plain old rudeness and incivility are present. Considering their burden of hundreds of years of chattel slavery and legalized discrimination, I tend to cut them a little slack, and don’t make a big deal out of it if they overreact a little. But it is also my observation that the kinds of white people who were open racists when I was growing up, now have become very slick at refraining from openly racist terms, but nevertheless, can put a completely obvious racial spin on things. One of their most loved tactics is to make a transparently racist attack – like for example scorning black music and musicians, without actually calling it “jungle music” – then, when someone sees through the transparency and complains about racism, the attacker gets all offended at being accused of racism. The attacker takes the shroud of victimization. Somehow “playing the race card” becomes more offensive than the initial attack that started the whole thing. How perverse. Not saying that is happening here. But there is real victimization, and fake victimization, and most of us can tell the difference. Now I know at this point b0b is gritting his teeth. But really I think we are all being pretty civil, and this really is an educational musical discussion. And to get right to the music, the writer said what RR is doing is the first time it has been done in 50 years. I believe he means it is the first time in 50 years that a steeler has moved from being a sideman to being the front man of a popular blues-rock act and placing the steel guitar front and center in instrumental rock. That’s completely true, and the writer is no clown. And I don’t see how this in any way discounts all the great steelers in the Hall of Fame who played completely different kinds of music. And as someone above said, if someone doesn’t care for country music, but does like blues-rock, then for them someone like RR can be the greatest steeler of all time (just tells me they haven’t heard the Campbell Brothers). I’m not going to defend everything this writer and others say. They do appear to be ignorant of the country steel tradition. They are rock critics, not country critics. That ain’t RR’s fault. He has previously stated admiration for top country steelers. Maybe he did here also, but those quotes weren’t included. It just seems to me that for whatever reasons, RR invariably brings out a lot of inappropriate and misdirected resentment from some here on the Forum. If I did not step “out of line” and support him, I would be truly ashamed of myself. |
Mark Eaton Member From: Windsor, Sonoma County, CA |
posted 18 April 2006 11:19 AM
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Wait a minute Al... what happened to the rest of your quote that you posted initially? ------------------ |
Al Moss Member From: Kent,OH,USA |
posted 18 April 2006 11:25 AM
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Mark, You hit on all of the good corresponding parts from that article. I had to edit my post so as to eliminate the redundancies of repeating what you had selected to present. |
Mark Eaton Member From: Windsor, Sonoma County, CA |
posted 18 April 2006 11:39 AM
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Sorry-I didn't mean to "hog the floor." That is an outstanding article-one of the best I have ever read centered around the pedal steel. It made me like Lloyd Green-and Robert Randolph-all the more! Required reading for everyone here. We will have a test on Friday. [This message was edited by Mark Eaton on 18 April 2006 at 11:40 AM.] |
Mark Eaton Member From: Windsor, Sonoma County, CA |
posted 18 April 2006 11:53 AM
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David-good writing in your analysis. Thanks for putting out the effort. ------------------ |
Al Moss Member From: Kent,OH,USA |
posted 18 April 2006 11:59 AM
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Mark, No hogging perceived here. -guess I was a bit previous in my edit. So, here's the first part of the article to which Mark refers in his post above. I'll sum up the first part: LG comes into S.Gtr. Nashville and hears RR playing his steel. ...now, from the article " To the older man's ears, the bluesy, orgiastic, pulpit rocking attack sounded like something all together new. After a while Randolph stopped playing and looked up. "Do you play?" he asked "A little." What's your name?" "Lloyd Green." Blank look. Seeing it, Green a man given to pessimistic reflections about the future of his craft, was intrigued. He's broken the barrier, was what he was thinking. The kid played with such bypass-the-brain flair, you had to think back a long way for comparisons...." "Ever heard of Buddy Emmons?" he asked "No." "Thank God." Green smiled warmly. "You haven't been contaminated by any of us." ...*this may be on the quiz*. |
Donny Hinson Member From: Balto., Md. U.S.A. |
posted 18 April 2006 12:43 PM
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quote: Sure they have, and we all know it. None of us has universal appeal, and it's a part of growing up (as my old man told me) to suffer through name-calling and snide remarks from people who don't care for you. Oh yeah, I've even heard famous players make nasty remarks about the likes of players such as Pete Drake and Curly Chalker. So what? Really, it probably made me think less of them, not of Pete and Curly. Maybe I'm alone in this, but I judge a player by how he plays. Everything else is just politics and opinions. I don't "politic", and I'd rather formulate my own opinions than to rely on those of others. You may not like what RR does (I didn't, at first), but after much listening and watching him, I've come to the conclusion that he's heck of an entertainer, and a pretty good player too. |
Joe Alterio Member From: Fishers, Indiana |
posted 18 April 2006 01:41 PM
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quote: That's completely untrue. Robert has received more flack, more unfounded criticism than ANY steel player...EVER. I am not going to count Jerry Garcia, as he was not a professional steel player. It was a side gig for him, nothing more. And even still, he never had his music dogged....just his overall ability. The fact is, there has NEVER been a 3+ page thread with people denouncing the playing of Pete Drake. Or Curly Chalker. Or any other steel player you may think has been criticized as much as Robert Randolph. And the guy HAS TALENT. LOTS of it! I don't care if he doesn't hit a freakin' pedal or knee lever all night....he knows how to make music.....GOOD music...with his pedal steel. I wish I could do a fraction of what he can do in front of an audience. You can not like his music....or not like the fact that he may not play his steel like you play yours. But the conversations on this Forum seem to always revolve around a **HATRED** of his music and/or playing style, and that is simply outrageous. Fact is, there are two very famous pedal steel players that it seems everyone adores on this Forum, and every time I read about how great they are, I just think to myself "I can't hardly listen to his stuff." That doesn't mean they don't have talent, or that their music isn't good otherwise....I jsut don't like their style. And if I were to say something about them, I would be flamed from here to heaven. Yet, many here feel Robert is allowed to endure such harsh criticism. Seems like a double-standard to me.... Joe [This message was edited by Joe Alterio on 18 April 2006 at 01:42 PM.] |
Tony Prior Member From: Charlotte NC |
posted 18 April 2006 02:55 PM
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Got an EMAIL from the author..who has been reading: he gave me permission to post it.. ------------------------------------------- Tony, I just read the thread on the Steel Guitar Forum. I'm I will agree with you that I left a lot of material out -- What happened here is that you gave some very thoughtful, Regarding not knowing some of the players you mentioned, For the record, though, I did not get my information on the Thanks for your help with this article, and please feel -Vijith --------------------------------------------- There ya have it.. Other than the sentance that was writen about why I don't buy RR Cd's , or any CD's for that matter..I'm ok with what he wrote with my name referenced..as there really isn't that much anyway... I probably should not have used the word "Idiot" though..that was pretty harsh..but I'm not really certain how that surfaced anyway..general conversation , it was probably just a moment thing... theres a lot of Music I don't particularly care for and I guess I could be called an idiot for not liking that as well. I've been called an idiot for a lot less ! t [This message was edited by Tony Prior on 18 April 2006 at 03:36 PM.] |
Ben Jones Member From: Washington, USA |
posted 18 April 2006 03:23 PM
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this part makes little sense to me "For the record, though, I did not get my information on the so the qoute about rednecks in nashville hating him, that was not from Robert? that came from our forum somehow? I wasnt offended by it, cause Im not a redneck (if I was a redneck whatever that is I would be proud to say so anyway, wasnt there a Redneck Jazz Explosion album..i hear its quite good tooo..heehee), dont live in nashville, and dont really have time to hate anyone least of all a musician whose just doin his thing...just wonderin how the author gets a "quote" from Robert that appears to address the "backlash" directly and then can make the staement above? [This message was edited by Ben Jones on 18 April 2006 at 03:28 PM.] |
David Doggett Member From: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA |
posted 18 April 2006 03:31 PM
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Well, he has some points there. I expect few country music fans, and few country music writers know many steel guitar players by name. It's a sad fact that, over the decades, country albums have mostly not listed band member names. Even here on the Forum we frequently have to ask who played on certain songs. The vocalists are considered the stars, by the labels, the fans, and the writers. The band members are treated as just interchangeable sidemen. This is also true for other pop genres like top 40 and R&B. But it is in complete contrast with album rock, and especially jazz, where there has long been a fetish of listing every musician on every track. This is all the more reason to be happy about RR's public recognition. But it also explains some of the frustration among country steelers that so few people in the public and music press know the greatest players of the instrument. Tony, you done a'ight. We're proud uv ya. |
David Doggett Member From: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA |
posted 18 April 2006 03:44 PM
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Ben, it's here:
quote: I guess you could say it's 1/3 from reading the Forum, 1/3 from Tony, and 1/3 from RR. It's not a big part of the article. But it's kind of interesting that he captured that problem at all. Have any of the other writers who covered RR mentioned the reaction in the traditional steel community? |
Tony Prior Member From: Charlotte NC |
posted 18 April 2006 04:12 PM
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like I said I should have replaced the word "idiot" with "tunnel vision" or something along those lines. thats the only word I regret using , but what the heck ..too late now..I don't even recall using it...but I do know it came out of conversation where the author was asking about the negative comments being made about RR.. like they say.. Don't quite my day job! t [This message was edited by Tony Prior on 18 April 2006 at 04:13 PM.] |
Ben Jones Member From: Washington, USA |
posted 18 April 2006 04:33 PM
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"But it's kind of interesting that he captured that problem at all. Have any of the other writers who covered RR mentioned the reaction in the traditional steel community?" -this is how to give the story a little interest and edge and is a really common tactic. You present your subject, explain why everyone thinks your subject is good or interesting, and then you say "but not everyone feels that way" and then present a counterpoint opinion on your subject, preferably from a faction which is less likeable or on shakier moral ground than the subject, usually followed by the subject overcoming all odds and detractors and "being true to themselves" to win the acclaim of us all eventually. let me give it a try.... Joe blow is the best most interesting piccolo player in the world. Hes performed for the king of Hibernia, his albums sell millions, the kids love him. But not everyone is a fan. ChurchLady Mildred says "I dont want my kids listening to that evil piccolo playing, its the devils msuic!"..."I understand her reaction in some ways" says Joe Blow, "the piccolo isnt for everyone, but I have to be true to myself and express the music thats in me... etc etc. okay maybe I should keep my day job as well and leave the writing to the "pros" [This message was edited by Ben Jones on 18 April 2006 at 04:35 PM.] [This message was edited by Ben Jones on 18 April 2006 at 04:37 PM.] |
David Doggett Member From: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA |
posted 18 April 2006 04:55 PM
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Ben, I think you have that trick down pretty good. One can also apply that trick in talk radio, only with a much heavier hand. First you pile on with overwhelming comment from your own political bias. Then you quote a smattering of lame drivel from the most inarticulate boob you can find from the other side. Then you pile back on with more overwhelming comment from your own bias. People love to hear their own views in a winning presentation. Well, I guess we're straying - gotta go work on my day job. |
Jim Sliff Member From: Hermosa Beach California, USA |
posted 18 April 2006 05:06 PM
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"but to deny or ignore purposefully the history of any instrument you wish to play is not a positive IMHO." You have your opinion, but it implies you think that since Robert ignored country he's doing a negative thing as well. Why not IGNORE the country bias and just let people play the darned thing in whatever style they want? Tthe history is irrelevant if you don't apply it, and RR doesn't need to. It doesn't apply to him. Let it GO. I've said this before - it's a musical instrument - NOT a country instrument. No matter how you try to slant it, or use the history, it doesn't have ANYTHING to do with country from a musical standpoint except by those who PLAY country-based music. What a biased load of...well, you know. |
Steinar Gregertsen Member From: Arendal, Norway |
posted 18 April 2006 05:12 PM
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Robert is coming from the Sacred Steel tradition of steel playing, which has roots back to the thirties. So the guy has his "roots credentials" covered okay, they're just different from most members of this forum. Steinar ------------------ |
Ben Jones Member From: Washington, USA |
posted 18 April 2006 05:31 PM
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Jim YOU are the one that seems to have some weird bias against country, as if somehow dissing it or ignoring it or denying its relevance to this instrument is going to give you a cool outsiders independent thinkers status. It does not. i did not imply RR was ignoring his roots or that he was doing a bad thing by not studying country music...you seemed to imply that and think it was the greatest idea ever. I simply stated that ignoring the history of any instrument you intend to learn is not a positive thing . The fact that RR and Mr. Green exchanged some playing time, and RR's reacxtion to Mr. Greens playing, show he DID have an interest in that style of playing...I dont think he willfully ignored it like you want to. As Steinar said just coming from a differnt source. not shutting out or denying other sources willfully. I am not one of those people who think the PSG should only be used for country. I am primarily a rock musician okay? There is nothing for me to "let it go" of. Whatever, if you feel it makes you avant garde or that your thinking outside the box by denying any association of this instrument with country music, or by dsimissing traditional techniques (the paitnbrush technique thread)...all I can say is best of luck with that. [This message was edited by Ben Jones on 18 April 2006 at 05:40 PM.] |
Donny Hinson Member From: Balto., Md. U.S.A. |
posted 18 April 2006 05:34 PM
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quote: (In my most good-natured tone.) How the heck would you know? Sorry, Joe, we'll just have to agree to disagree. You saw a bunch of criticism here on the Forum (by a few dozen players), and probably thought that was the first time a steeler (other than Garcia) had been seriously knocked by other players for the way he played. Well son, I'm here to tell you, you've missed a lot. I know some older and deceased "famous players", and those guys were taking flak over 40 years ago, from famous steelers and from other musicians as well. I heard dozens of comments and digs, and if I heard that many (first-hand, in person remarks), you can bet there were hundreds, if not thousands of similar remarks made. Of course, you had to be there in the music scene 40-50 years ago to hear it, it wasn't on a screen in your living room. The world of the steel guitar (both the good and the bad) started long before the Forum, long before the internet, and long before Robert Randolph was even born. Yeah, you might know what you've seen and heard...but you sure don't know what I've seen and heard (or what others have seen and heard, for that matter). I'd appreciate it if you'd keep that in mind. |
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