Ricky Davis can give you all the information you need to build an 8 string lap steel.

E-Mail Ricky at: sshawaiian@aol.com

Check out John Tipka's info on building a lap steel($20). John is very knowledgeable having built & repaired many steels: http://www.hsga.org/learning/techtips.html

Good sources for parts:
http://www.guitar-parts.com

http://www.allparts.com

http://www.stewmac.com/cgi-bin/hazel.cgi

http://www.lmii.com

Sources for pick ups:

I'd go to Jason Lollar - I've heard nothing but good things about the quality of his work: http://www.lollarguitars.com/

or check out Seymour Duncan's "Antiquity" Stringmaster pickup: http://www.seymourduncan.com/website/antiquity.html

As for woods, this my opinion:

Maple: very bright, ringing, can add shimmer and offers great beauty in grain patterns. possibly less emphasis on overtones.

Mahogany: warm sound, good sustain, can help bring out harmonics.

Koa: a shade brighter/less warm than mahongany but still on the warm side of the continuum;a very musical tonewood. Very expensive but the grain patterns are spectacular.

Swamp Ash: one of the secrets to the great tone of early Fender steels & Tele's. An extremely resonant tone wood (many old Fenders sound good unplugged). Probably needs a solid color finish.

Walnut: dense harwood with some nice grain patterns. Brighter side of the scale with less emphasis on overtones. Personally, I've never been impressed with any Walnut guitar I've ever heard.

Poplar: Cheaper tonewood; okay sound. Best for solid color finish rather than natural wood look.

Oak: good for kitchen cabinets & floors, not guitars IMHO.

You can always mix & match like a Les Paul (mahongany w/ maple top). That way you could use a more expensive/exotic hardwood on top for less cost like Zebrawood, Bubinga, Madagscar ebony, etc. The luthier's Merchantile catalog is great free source for info on a large variety of tone woods.

I was in process of designing a wood-body frypan when I got a teeny tiny work bonus instead of the windfall I was hoping for. I gave up and just got a new Chandler Royal Hawaiian RH-2. It's all solid mahogany with pearloid binding, a white pearloid fretboard with cool black art-deco silk screened fret markers/frets and a killer P-90 style pickup (looks like a Gibson Charlie Christian). The vol & tone control are perfectly placed for manipulation in mid-phrase. I'm still getting used to the long scale after years of playing 22.5" guitars but for $350, it's one of the best deals out there. And at that price, I wouldn't be adverse to making it my experiemental guitar to try a re-finish or swap pickups or hardware.

Hope this info is helpful.

[This message was edited by Andy Volk on 18 February 2002 at 05:27 AM.]

One alt. is a pedal steel pickup like Herb Remington uses. These are easily avail. from George L. http://www.remingtonsteelguitars.com/steelmaster.html http://www.georgels.com/stpick.html

There are no 8 string parts (like there are 6 string parts), you are on a quest which will prob. lead you to figuring out how to make them yourself. IF you find 8 string parts, let us know.

I've made a few 8 strings out of swamp ash and would concure that it's a good tone wood for solid body guitars.

I've made 6 over the last few years and keep learning at every attempt - press on!
Chris
www.berkleyguitars.com www.seldomfed.com

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Chris Kennison
Ft. Collins, Colorado
"We can't afford to let Nature Run Wild" - govt. offical - Alaska

Other woods to consider are Alder, again, for a guitar that will have a paint finish, as well as redwood, which is gaining ground in guitar use. Luthier James Goodall described it this way:

" .... almost identical to cedar but a little more red in color. It usually exhibits a beautiful glow, with strong medullary silking - some pieces amazingly so. Glue bond not quite as good as the spruces. ... A quality redwood top makes a fingerstyle guitar which is hard to beat with respect to a responsive, 3-dimensional brilliance. Some tops exhibit somewhat more richness in the bass than cedar".

Ricky Davis' S.S. Hawaiian is made of Australian silky Oak. Maybe he can comment on that variety as a tone wood. Ricky?

[This message was edited by Andy Volk on 19 February 2002 at 12:34 PM.]

quote:

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"Oak: good for kitchen cabinets & floors, not guitars IMHO."

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Well Andy; I think my piece of Kitchen cabinet/floor Oak, sounds pretty dang good...ah....ha.....Yeah I know it's not Oak like we are used to seeing..here's the story.
Allan Tomkins is a great guitar builder in Australia.....and he has built Dale Watson's guitars for years. Last time I was down under; he brought Dale a new beautiful guitar he just finished and Dale played it and I immediately went to Mr. Tomkins and asked...."what in the world is THAT wood"?? It was the best sounding guitar and absolutely most beautiful piece of wood I've seen. Mr. Tomkins said: "Well Ricky; that is Australian Silky Oak; and you will never see or hear that wood up there on your side of the equator"......he also said he could get me a piece and of course I said yeeesssssssss.....and there the SS HAWAIIAN was borned.
For a natural finish I wanted a beautiful highly figured wood and of course it had to sound good...well that guitar Mr. Tomkins built for Dale prooved that; as I've heard just about every kinda wood on our planet..and that is no ordinary Oak.....so that is why I went with it.
Now; the new D-10 SS HAWAIIAN will be made outta Honduras Mahogany and Tommy Morrell told me it has the best sound memory of all woods....but I did pass on what I thought would be a killer wood and sound....again from Mr. Tomkins....."Australian Cherry Red Cedar".....but with the D-10 we are going with a solid piece(no joining)14" wide and starting a 2 1/2" thick.....and you don't and can't find many pieces of wood that starts at that thickness and that width, and a whopping 34" long......yeeeeee haaaaa.
Also the Mahogany will be painted a retro cream/white and with all that Brass set into the Mahogany.....will look and sound outta this world.
I've already cut my (kitchen cabinet/flooring)Oak SS HAWAIIAN on several Master Recording sessions; and has outdone any piece of wood/steel I've "EVER" played.It has a very warm but extream clearity about it and a very unique sound as many steels never used brass and has characteristics in the sound of a Bigsby and Fender all wrapped up in one. Also these are Jason Lollar wound pickups with blend control; and don't get much better than Jason. But the wood is only one part of many intriquate design features that has to be considered when building a Rolls Royce of Steel Guitars(but a very good normal steel guitar can be done quite well, with any of the wood there that Andy metioned(which IMHO; Andy is an exteamly knowledgable man on this) is very well explained by the man; and even the part about Oak.....ha ...but of course mine is no ordinary piece of Oak .....so be it.
Good luck and any more help I can add; please yell....and these are some great comments made already.....what a super resource right here.....wow.
Oh and here is my SS HAWAIIAN below.

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Ricky Davis

My Homepage
Rebel™ and Ricky's Audio Clips
www.mightyfinemusic.com
Email Ricky: sshawaiian@aol.com

[This message was edited by Ricky Davis on 19 February 2002 at 11:23 PM.]

Being old and not wealthy, when I wanted to get back into playing after a nearly 30 yr hiatus, a new instrument seemed the first step. Looking around, though, and seeing the asking prices brought that to a halt! (I DID end up buying a darn fine MSA D10 for less than many of the lap steels.)

Having built my own house, I had the tools and pretty much knew how to use them. The house is in the middle of 12 acres of woods which contain most of the tree varieties that grow in Ohio. So Cherry, Walnut, Maple, Ash, etc. were all at hand as well as several fruit woods.

And a couple sawmills close by to turn logs into useful material. As stated by Ricky, you'll likely not be able to go to today's lumberyards and find quality stock as thick as you may want, even if you're willing to pay the price. And, like Ricky, I prefer to begin with one solid piece.

This is getting too long for the Forum so I'll try to get to the point.

My first priority was to build a guitar that sounded good. Second was to have it look good. Third was to do it CHEAP. Well, I've done it now, many times over. There's 14 young steelers who probably would never have started, otherwise.

What Jerry Byrd said about wood not making much difference is true - for most people. I first prototyped with a chunk of 2x10 pine and it sounds great. Good idea for you, also, to test the design and your skills on something you can later discard.

After a few projects, I like African Red Mahogany best, then GOOD South American brown Mahogany(not the stuff some people will TELL you is Mahogany). Cherry is also fine, but is heavier and not as easy to work. Recently, I've done a couple out of Poplar with better than expected results.

Poplar is reasonably hard, relatively cheap, often available in 10/4 (2.5in), and takes any kind of finish quite well. You do have to 'select', though, if you want to dye or stain as it is prone to have color 'blotches'. But it's much less heavy than most of the other woods and easy to work.

I got some 1/4 and 3/8 brass flat bar stock off eBay for a few dollars to make nuts and bridges. A metal saw, hand filing, and time is required but it's a lot cheaper than paying a machine shop. Since the proper tools were not in my shop, an unusual method of gauging the nuts had to be developed but it works fine.

Tuners can usually be had off eBay for $15 to $30 for a set of 6. Also, you might be surprised how well standard guitar pickups can sound. Maybe not as good on the high notes but my ears like a more mellow sound, anyway. A fellow was offering a lot of 6 pu's which I got for $12+5sh and they actually do pretty good. Using two, slightly staggered on a 10 stringer, they extend above and below the strings a bit but that's not really too noticable.

Using a CAD program on my computer, a very nice fretboard can be designed and printed on a variety of media. If you can find some, I've found that transparency film in rolls works well. A piece of 1/8in Plexiglass over it gives a good fretboard for about $2 instead of buying an ugly one for $20. Another piece of Plexiglass can be used for the pick/hand guard, with or without something on the underside(for looks). For around $30, a brass door kickplate will make several of these (and also does fine under the fretboard transparency).

Maybe it's heresy but standard electronic store stuff works OK. 'Steel guitar' pot's would, no doubt, be better but, side by side, my ears don't hear much difference. The 500kohm are harder to find but, for a standard pickup, 250k is probably a better match, anyway. $6 instead of $35.

Bottom line, I build a very servicable guitar for under $100 that looks and sounds pretty darn good. It certainly does not compare with what Ricky, Sierra, Berkely and others produce. But it isn't $800+, either.

Don't misunderstand me - I'm NOT trying to sell you a guitar. While not wealthy, I'm comfortable and don't need the money so I have no wish to take sales away from people who are trying to make a living. My projects are for my own enjoyment and for those who wouldn't buy a 'professional' guitar, anyway.

There is quite a lot to be considered in building even a basic lap steel. Much more than this post, as long as it is, covers. Do a cheap prototype - you'll find things need to be refined either in design or crafting.

Drop me an email if you'd like to discuss more detail. --Everett

But it's just as true that the FEELING you get from quality of material and craft can be perceived by any lover of the instrument.
'Under the skin', a Chrysler is pretty much like a Plymouth or Dodge but it still SEEMS to run better and confers pride of ownership.

Whether or not I could ACTUALLY hear it, I have no doubt that one of Rickie's or Seldom Fed's creations would still sound better than mine. We also 'hear' with our eyes and heart. When we KNOW we have a good instrument, we play and sound better. Right!

Keep making them, fellas. Maybe I can't afford them but it's good to know something like that is 'out there' -- and maybe, SOMEDAY....(dream). --Everett

[This message was edited by Everett Cox on 21 February 2002 at 12:28 AM.]

quote:

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I'd be much obliged if someone could send me a fret board layout for a short scale neck.

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Fret   Just      Tempered
 1--  21.093      21.237
 2--  20.000      20.045 
 3--  18.750      18.920
 4--  18.000      17.858
 5--  16.875      16.855
 6--  16.000      15.909
 7--  15.000      15.016
 8--  14.062      14.174
 9--  13.500      13.378
 10-  12.656      12.627
 11-  12.000      11.918
 12-  11.250      11.250
 13-  10.546      10.618  
 14-  10.000      10.022 
 15-   9.375       9.460 
 16-   9.000       8.929
 17-   8.437       8.427
 18-   8.000       7.954
 19-   7.500       7.508
 20-   7.031       7.087 
 21-   6.750       6.689
 22-   6.328       6.313
 23-   6.000       5.959
 24-   5.625       5.625

Mike: Is that guy still working on my harmonic script or did he throw it out like he should have ??

Check out FretCalc
I used it and it worked really well. Plus it's free! Used it a couple of years ago.
http://www.dougsparling.com/software/fretcalc

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Chris Kennison
Ft. Collins, Colorado
"We can't afford to let Nature Run Wild" - govt. offical - Alaska

One more thing ... another parts guy I've spoken to who was very helpful was Terry Muller, in Illinois: 618-529-2844 Terry specializes in vintage guitar parts.
Very nice,helpful vintage parts guy

[This message was edited by Andy Volk on 22 February 2002 at 07:04 AM.]

[This message was edited by Rick Aiello on 24 February 2005 at 07:15 AM.]

The bottom line is that the pickup amplifies and colors the sound that's already inherently there acoustically.

Not to belabor this thread, but a CD folks should check out is Ed Gerhard’s “House of Guitars”. Ed is a folk guitarist (and namesake of the Breedlove EG signature model) who’s known for his exceptional tone and pristine, precise touch on acoustic fingerstyle guitar as well as for his studio & mic placement mastery which results in a huge yet detailed sound on his records. For this latest CD, he collected “pawn shop “ guitars - harmony acoustics and Oahu & Supro lap steels - didn’t even change strings or setup, and recorded them as if they were the highest-end guitars on the planet; kind of like David Grisman’s “Tone Poems” series in reverse. He gets a beautiful, kind of acoustic sound out of these old electric Oahus. His tunings and overall style are reminiscent of David Lindley in his more low key moments. Good stuff!

[This message was edited by Andy Volk on 22 February 2002 at 11:13 AM.]

quote:

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what material (bakelite, aluminum...) is the least resonant in the frequencies associated with a hawaiian steel????

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Walnut steel guitars were discontinued by Fender back in the spring of 1954,the reason?
cost and most people preffered the "blonde" or as its called today Butterscotch.

It was easier and less expensive to finish a guitar by painting it,whereas the Walnut had to be rubbed and laquered to a piano like finish,which was time consuming in addition to the extra cost for the walnut wood. Blemishes in the wood or imperfection were easy to cover in blonde,walnut was another story.