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Author
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Topic: Corian the new Bakelite?
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Gerald Ross
Member From: Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
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posted 24 April 2002 01:42 PM
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Time for my annual question... I'm looking for new insights.Do you think the material Corian can be used in the production of steel guitars? Is it the new Bakelite? It's already being used as nuts and saddles on standard guitars. It can be shaped easily. It's not subject to the whims of wood. It comes in a rainbow of colors. Scratches can easily be buffed out. It can be finished to a mirror like surface as well as a satiny finish. Look at this rainbow of colors available: http://www.corian.com/NASApp/Cori anPublic/CorianPageServlet?pageId=Colors_Complete_ColorsGlance&langId=701&surfaceId=601&roleId=801&rgnId=901 Ideas? ------------------
Gerald Ross
'Northwest Ann Arbor, Michigan's King Of The Hawaiian Steel Guitar'
Gerald's Fingerstyle Guitar Website
[This message was edited by Gerald Ross on 24 April 2002 at 01:46 PM.]
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Gerald Ross
Member From: Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
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posted 24 April 2002 03:20 PM
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From the Corian website:The formability of CorianŽ adds to its versatility. You can cut it. Carve it. Rout it. Drill it. Sculpt it. Bend it. Or work it like a fine wood. The ability of CorianŽ to be thermoformed allows it to flow with both traditional and nontraditional designs. An ordinary sheet of CorianŽ can be transformed into an art form...a dramatic curved stairway...a sculpted piece of furniture.
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Gerald Ross
'Northwest Ann Arbor, Michigan's King Of The Hawaiian Steel Guitar'
Gerald's Fingerstyle Guitar Website
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Brad Bechtel
Moderator From: San Francisco, CA
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posted 24 April 2002 04:08 PM
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It sounds interesting to me. I wonder if they make a sheet of Corian thick enough to act as a steel guitar body, or if you'd just end up with a thinner lap steel? I could envision a frying pan style body pretty easily.I would bet that the resulting guitar would be extremely stable, very heavy, and would sustain for days. Now to find a luthier who makes cabinets in his spare time (or vice versa)...
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Brad's Page of Steel
A web site devoted to acoustic & electric lap steel guitars |
Rick Collins
Member From: Claremont , CA USA
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posted 24 April 2002 04:18 PM
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I bet it would work too. Of course one would have to experiment with it, to see if it resonates well.Does anyone know what kind of tools are needed to shape it (I mean wood or metal cutting tools)? Can it be cast? Rick[This message was edited by Rick Collins on 24 April 2002 at 04:22 PM.] |
HowardR
Member From: N.Y.C.,N.Y.
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posted 24 April 2002 05:49 PM
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Interesting.....soon I'll be able to order a lap steel with a 3/4" bullnose to match my fireplace mantle. |
Gerald Ross
Member From: Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
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posted 24 April 2002 08:01 PM
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More from the Corian site, Bouvier brand guitars made of it: http://www.corian.com/NASA pp/CorianPublic/CorianPageServlet?pageId=Photos_Detail_CSP_GUITAR_blkqtzwood&langId=701&surfaceId=601&roleId=801&rgnId=901 Fender is using it to build guitars too:
http://www.corian.com/N ASApp/CorianPublic/CorianPageServlet?pageId=Photos_Detail_CSP_GUITAR_1glcwhtfender&langId=701&surfaceId=601&roleId=801&rgnId=901 From the site:
Fender guitars are the stuff legends are made of. And CorianŽ is the stuff Fender chose to fabricate the most fanciful guitars in history. With CorianŽ (shown in Glacier White) musical tones are as consistent as with guitars made of wood.
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Gerald Ross
'Northwest Ann Arbor, Michigan's King Of The Hawaiian Steel Guitar'
Gerald's Fingerstyle Guitar Website
[This message was edited by Gerald Ross on 24 April 2002 at 08:07 PM.]
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chas smith
Member From: Encino, CA, USA
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posted 24 April 2002 08:22 PM
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Looks cool, I would be interested in how well it really resonates, because not all plastic, like plexiglass, is resonant. Barring that, I'd like to get a powder blue leisure suit with white shoes made out of it. |
Everett Cox
Member From: Marengo, OH, USA
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posted 25 April 2002 12:03 AM
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Yes, it does seem like Corian might work. For a long while, it was very difficult to buy as they only wanted to sell to 'authorized' dealers/builders. I plan to try some for lap steels soon.I've done other things with it and, though it requires somewhat different techniques and tools, working with it is not too bad. Mostly, good quality wood-working saws, sanders, routers, etc. do fine. Does seem to dull edges pretty quick. Special glues, too. I've not found Corian available thicker than an inch - more often in half or three-quarters. A PSG or console cabinet would, indeed, be quite heavy. Scratches pretty easy. Sure is pretty, though. --Everett[This message was edited by Everett Cox on 25 April 2002 at 12:14 AM.] |
Sage
Member From: Boulder, Colorado
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posted 25 April 2002 06:50 AM
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Interesting question. Gerald, I doubt that it would be like bakelite. Bakelite is a thermoset resin, unlike most of the other plastics (including corian) that are thermoformed. That means that Bakelite has a more crystaline structure, cannot be re-melted, and is brittle. Thermoformed plastics have long chain polymers that can move past one another, making them more flexible. This can be modified with fillers (which corain has a lot of, I'm sure) but the random orientation of the molecules is not going to give you the same resonant qualities as wood (or carbon fiber) IMHO. Plus, I'm not into heavy, and I am already tired of formica on pedal steels so I'm a wee bit biased on this one  .[This message was edited by Sage on 25 April 2002 at 06:54 AM.] [This message was edited by Sage on 25 April 2002 at 02:10 PM.] |
Rick Collins
Member From: Claremont , CA USA
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posted 25 April 2002 08:16 AM
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Does anyone know much about fiberglass resin;___the kind used to coat some restaurant table tops? It seems quite hard and it is very clear. Maybe this could be used to make the surface of a steel guitar more durable.Rick |
J D Sauser
Member From: E-03700-DENIA (Costa Blanca), Spain
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posted 26 April 2002 09:02 AM
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We looked at a lot of materials: Hard Melanine came closest to the brittle properties of Bakelite. The problem is to find a material that is like Bakelite but "formable" in low quantity productions with the least technology possible (NO heat, preassure, expensive high polished metal molds and such). All that always brought me back to woods cast aluminum or fibre reinforced two compound resines. Cast Aluminum can be produced at fairly low prices even at low quantities, but it´s a bitch when it comes to keep it in tune.
Interstingly the recently opened new MSA Co. has chosen Carbon Fibre reinforced resin for their new guitars: www.msapedalsteels.com .... J-D. |
Ted Smith
Member From: Sweet
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posted 06 May 2002 11:52 AM
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I'm using a new Resin injection into the wood that I really like the sound results of - but again, like Bak' and Corian, the brittle aspects are tough. I don't think that can be overcome because in order to have resonance, it can't be flexible or it absorbs the vibration.
I'd like to try the laminant with Corian sandwiched, and string through with the ball on the Corian as soon as I have any time. I did one with Phenolic, where the string ball contacted, for Del and still waiting for some feedback from him on it. |
J D Sauser
Member From: E-03700-DENIA (Costa Blanca), Spain
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posted 07 May 2002 08:53 AM
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Injecting resin into the wood sounds cool, Ted. What kind of resin is that and how do you get it into the wood?. As wood is pretty stable (dimensionally) along the fibres, this would give you a brittle (and you´re right BRITTLE is IT) but re-inforced structure and with a good tuning stability.... J-D. |
Jim Smith
Member From: Plano, TX, USA
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posted 07 May 2002 09:15 AM
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Ted, are you using something similar to Pakkawood that we used at Dekley? |
Dave Boothroyd
Member From: The Malvern Hills
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posted 09 May 2002 04:38 AM
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Go have a word with your Yacht Chandler!
There is a range of epoxy resins sold under the name of West System, which is designed to be applied to wooden boat hulls to turn them from bare wood to a cellulose fibre reinforced composite.
There are even boat builders who use pressure injection to get the epoxy right into the wood.
It's an American product, so it should not be too hard to find.
Cheers
Dave
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Ted Smith
Member From: Sweet
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posted 13 May 2002 08:20 AM
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Bert Quenzar is our Resin Man, and he doesn't share much even with me. What we are seeing is about 1/4" depth right now, but he has a new vacuum process he thinks will take it to 3/4". |
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