Seems like using a Martin Butterbean Vintage .... is the closest fit.

I also saw someone used Grovers without the bushings??

Has anyone had success WITHOUT altering the bakelite (hole) .... I'll file the posts down by hand if I have to but I ain't gonna ream out the bakelite.

I only need one and could care less if it matches the others (they are open gear with metal butterbean knobs).

If worse comes to worse I'll take a tuner off my Silver Hawaiian and then modify it to take the larger post ... but that would be a last resort.

Any help would be greatly appreciated !!

[This message was edited by Rick Aiello on 26 May 2002 at 09:17 PM.]

I searched the world over for two tuning keys for my pre '37 Rick 7 string. I was unable to find a suitable replacement.

Finally found a man who had a Rick where the neck had broken. He sent me two keys which were sooo badly worn, they have much slack. But it is better than nothing.

I hope you have better luck than I did.

God bless you in your quest,

I emailed ya for details ... What brand of mandolin tuners ??? ... I'm sure either Allparts, Stewart-MacDonald, or Elderly would have them.

Carl, maybe your "quest" may finally come to an end with these mandolin tuners ...

[This message was edited by Rick Aiello on 27 May 2002 at 06:32 AM.]

I don't know if my Rick is just an oddball or not, but let me go into a little bit further detail concerning my frustrations trying to find a suitable replacement for the tuning keys.

Several large music stores in the Atlanta area were kind enough to let me go thru boxes and barrels of tuning keys. I found hundreds of 4 and 3 keystrips as well as individual keys, parts and accessories.

The problem was NOTHING found was satisfactory. Here are some of the problems:

1. pegs were too short (the bakelite covered part or all of the hole in the peg).

2. pegs were too long. "Jes' don't look right" as Red Skelton used to say.

3. Pegs were to fat. Would have required enlarging the holes. Since one does NOT get a second chance with bakelite, I was not about to enlarge them.

4. The spacing on the keystrips were not the same as the rick.

5. Unable to find a 3 keystrip and a 4 keystrrip that come ANY where close to matching estheticaly.

6. Unable to find a single part that would be an exact replacement for that respective part on the Rick.

Upon close examination of my Rick, I discovered some real quirks. One of the most odd quirk is; the spacing between the keys on the 4 keystrip are NOT all the same. This I found to be very odd. Whether this was typical on 7 string Ricks or not, I simply do not know. But it is certainly true on mine.

The peg diameter appears to have been custom designed on the Rick. NO peg I tried fit like the original. NO key strip I looked at had the mounting holes in the same place which would have required redrilling and tapping. Again, I shuttered at the thought of this.

I spent months and months on this. I called everywhere. Some I spoke to, had experienced my plight. The consensus was; Rickenbacher used somebody to build a special set of 3 and 4 keystrips that NO body else in the business made. Whether Rickenbacher manaufactured them themselves or farmed it out is in question.

Interesting bit of Trivia. Tom Brumley aquired his long sought after 7 stringer about the same time I found mine. On Tom's guitar somebody had tackled the problem. And went at it with a vengeance They had removed the strips entirely and replaced them with individual and modern looking enclosed keys.

The job at best was second rate. And Tom tried every way to trade me. EVEN with my two broken keys. (One on each strip).

After years of trying everything I knew to do. I simply gave up. I had to tune the guitar using a pair of pliers on the two broken keys.

It was not until my dear friend down in Texas sent me the two keystrips from a broken neck Rick. And while these are better than I had, the slop is soo bad they are very near slipping past the gear.

So, If you too wonderful people find a good replacment, PLEASE let me know. I simply struck out.

May our Lord richly bless you always,

Here are the specs (as close as I can get with a tape measure):

Diameter of post = 7/32"
Height of post = 1" (from back of headstock)
Distance between mounting screws = 15/16"
Distance between adjacent posts = 1 3/8"
Distance between top mounting screw on 1st and bottom mounting screw on 3rd post (for strip tuners?) = 3 5/8"

[This message was edited by Rick Aiello on 27 May 2002 at 09:11 AM.]

From what I have read (a whole lot lately) there were NO ORIGINAL Ricky tuners. Seems like they used whatever was available at the time.

My '37 Silver has different style individual tuners than my bakelites, although the specs (listed above) are the same. It is open geared with butterbean knobs.

One bakelite is open geared with metal butterbean knobs (but is a different design than the Silver). The other 2 bakelites are open geared with white plastic knobs (I have successfully preplaced those crumblin' jobs). I have another Ricky from that era (Academy) that has closed back, 3 on a strip.

I'll leave the notion of "original" to the collectors ... I just want function !!!

Trust me, I WILL come up with a safe solution ... I'm like my english bulldog ... stubborn with a one track mind.

I have sent emails to all the big suppliers with the above specs ... I will post any favorable outcomes ... and my files are ready to trim down anything that comes close.

Things are lookin up

[This message was edited by Rick Aiello on 27 May 2002 at 07:04 PM.]

The BAD news .... The Martin tuners arrived today ...
http://www.elderly.com/accessories/items/GTM28.htm

... They DID NOT slid right in

The GOOD NEWS ... I had talked with Wayne Tanner (Thanks Ray and Wayne) and he suggested takin' a round file and gently enlarge the bakelite post holes. He had not heard of the Martin tuners and said that if indead it only reqquired a 1/64" enlargement...it would be safer to "file out" the hole vs. DRILL and far more practical to file out the hole than to file down the posts themselves.

Well, I took Mr. Tanners advice (of course)and in about 2 minutes with a total of maybe 10 light "passes" with the file .. the posts slid right in. I never felt the bakelite was in danger (and I'm as paranoid as you get) .. in fact, although I only needed 1 new tuner .. the other 5 were loose and in bad shape ... I did all 6 ... in a total of about 15 minutes.

The mounting holes did need a slight adjustment ... another 5 minutes ... BINGO...New tuners ... safe ... finished.

They even look great .. and I can live with the "Martin" name on the backs.

God bless them and you,

My Ric was as a derelict when I bought it. It had half a set of raggedy old Kluson tuners. I bought a new set of Klusons (3 on a strip)from Elderly and with very few strokes of the old rat tail file on the Bakelite they dropped right in.

It's a great guitar--a tone monster and a real looker. Thanks a million Wayne.