I didn't get the idea that you were "provincial-minded islander" at any point. I got the impression that you took the anti-JB comments with a grain of salt anyway. In truth it's woderful that your first influences were different to the norm. I've heard so much about "Feets" Rogers & now Benny (from your post) that I dearly want to hear them. "Provincial" style is good because it ain't homogenised. "Provincial mindset" may be another matter.

I play pedal steel (as well as my lame attempts at Eharp & other non pedal tunings) ... but I abhor a lot of pedal steel playing not because of the use of pedals but because of the conformity of the players and over exposure of the idiom. However, good playing is always good playing whether it be pedal or non pedal, country or Hawaiian etc.

...Paradise Isle, Kaimana Hila, Pagan Love Song, Little Lani Jo (a beautiful song, which I think he wrote for his daughter), Hilo March, Hawaiian Sunset, Makalapua, Maui Chimes, Kaulana O Hilo Hanakahi, I Regret to Say Aloha...

I like your way of thinking, Graham; and your slant on pedal vs non pedal. Alot of pedal playing sounds the same to me too...this is probably why I've always naturally taken to non-pedal...it just has a sound that is so exotic...a touch and timbre that is unique to each player...

...actually, I'm little scared to try pedals...they say once you go there, you never come back

JB's artistry is such that he can play *any* style...he can perfectly imitate the sounds of Hoopi, Iona, McIntire, or he can sound like a pedal guitar. But most of the time, he sounds like himself...He has defined steel guitar as an art form, and the most beautiful instrument in the world.

Howard, I'll vote for you too...but being that I'm from Florida, can you put your picture on the ballot or something to make it a little easier for me? You represent da Doe Party, right?...or are you reinventing the Bull Moose party? Teddy would be so proud...

...I think I'm allergic to your cabinet members though...I assume your legislative meetings will be 'seasonal'?

[This message was edited by Jeff Strouse on 07 November 2002 at 02:39 PM.]

"TO EACH HIS OWN". Good post there Jeff.

Edited.....lets all vote for Howard. He is president of the "HOT PANTS" Club of America.
Oh another for you,who played steel guitar on the original recording of Sleepwalk?? was
it Santo?? or was it Johnny?..Im confused,whoever it was,,,must have been using pedals. Howard,,,are you there?? Hey Keoki...was it you?????

[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 07 November 2002 at 07:32 AM.]

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kd...and the beat goes on...

1. The criticisms that I have heard Hawaiian musicians make of Jery Byrd and Bob Brozman are based on the totally subjective view of what "authentic" Hawaiian music sounds like to them (the critics). Sometimes I agree, sometimes not. But Byrd and Brozman have went out there and helped perpetuate two different and totally wonderful approaches to Hawaiian steel, and did so when few people in the WHOLE world (not just in Hawaii) gave a shit. That is putting your money where your mouth is. Lots os people talk, few can deliver. Without Jerry and Bob's efforts the Hawaiian steel would be many steps closer to death than it is right now.

2. The two most popular forms of music in Hawaii right now are "Jawaiian" (inspid reggae) and acoustic pop inspired by the likes of James Taylor, the Eagles, and other such soul-sucking 1970's dreck. Hawaiian musicians would be enriched greatly by doing some homework into their own musical history and utilizing what they learn in the music they make. The best Hawaiian musicans already do this. The rest don't, unfortunately.

3. A personal story about Jerry Byrd: When I first took up steel, I sent away several times for his tablatures. I thanked him for his efforts and he always sent me a hand-written note telling me to "keep up the good work" or some other positive comment. That made me so inspired that I would practice ten times harder because of it. Then I went to Hawaii for a steel convention and got to meet Jerry. He was a total jerk. I related this story to a friend who is one of the finest steel players in the world (and who shall remain nameless) and he said that Jerry was legendary for his crustiness and his ability to vibe people if he was in the mood for doing that. Anyways, it certainly doesn't lessen my admiration for the man's music. But it just goes to show you how complex and contradictory a human being can be!

Hi Jeff, I think that guy was a musical bigot. And perhaps more. Can't say.

I've played music for long enough to know we can be harder on each other than non-players. I'm just disappointed when I hear musicians cutting others down for whatever reason. And I don't usually listen to it.

Does Jerry Byrd sound Hawaiian? Yup. Is he a good steel player, yup. I don't think the definition of Hawaiian music is definitive, or constant. Jeez, that's one of the best parts of music to me. It changes.

I had the good fortune to live in Hawaii in the 70's. I'm a honkey, 'haole', white guy, wasp, whatever... There were times I really felt like a minority - because hey, I WAS! But I learned some stuff.

Who's a Hawaiian?

If I were born there or grew up there I'd sure consider myself Hawaiian. People call Hawaii 'the melting pot of the Pacific' for a good reason. Most everyone is from somewhere else, and so is most of the modern culture - God bless America. (modern culture defined as - say within the last 70 years?)

Native Hawaiians (and other Pacific Islanders) make up about 9.371% of the population of the state and then there are the rest of us. I had a few bad discrimination type experiences, but Honolulu is a big city. Overall it was the best time of my life because among many other things - I grew up. I learned what it felt like to be a minority. I learned tolerance. I learned some Hawaiian music (Kalapana, Slack Key and C&K in those days!). I made wonderful friends. And learned that bigots exist in all cultures! State cultures, region cultures, races, religion, age groups, art communities, wa-de-do-da.

So what is Hawaiian music anyway?

Like Gerald said - "nothing exists in a vacuum". Hawaiian music was limited in genre until haoles (aka foreigner) brought western instruments and melodies. It was chant, oral history and stories in a primitive song form accompanied with gourds to keep a rhythm. Many chants were stories and propaganda to keep the non-royal classes entertained, informed, and in their place. And make them feel good about eating crap while the royals got all the good fish. That was the job of the 'musician' class. (... hey wait a minute... I like Taco Bell and KFC)

Now then , take some chant stories, add in the European, and Asian influences, a little religion, history, sex, sex, sex, politics, greed, and don't forget sex, and anything else worth singing about - sprinkle with some Tin Pan Alley, Hollywood, and Hawaii Calls, Rock and Roll, stir, bake in the Hawaiian sun for about 150 years and see what pops out. I guess it's Hawaiian music. It's an extremely complex subject and convoluted timeline and I know only fragments. I suppose someone’s personal definition of ‘real’ Hawaiian music might depend on when in that timeline they happened to learn music (say 70 years ago) and then closed their mind.

Lorene Ruymar and I were talking at the HSGA show in Joliet and she said that one of the things that motivated her to write her book was that a young Hawaiian musician had told her that the steel guitar was a Nashville invention forced on the Hawaiian musicians to promote the tourist industry. Hmmmmmm.

Something else that's interesting - I recently talked to the guys in the Ale'a band and asked them (young guys btw) if the younger local players like steel. They admitted it's hard to play. Uke is cool. IZ played uke. Steel's expensive. AND - then there's that 'tourist thing'. So a little prejudice thing happening perhaps? This will affect people’s views too.

So if a person says Jerry doesn't sound Hawaiian, it's just one opinion. But based on what I've heard come out of that environment - he sounds Hawaiian to me.

Combine bigotry, ignorance, and low self-esteem - who knows what people will believe or are willing to say. But everybody's entitled to his or her opinion - even if it is wrong.

Cheers - Chris

ps - I think Robert Randolph should move to Hawaii

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Chris Kennison
Ft. Collins, Colorado
"There is no spoon" www.seldomfed.com

[This message was edited by seldomfed on 08 November 2002 at 10:59 AM.]

Pineapples anyone? you lackanookie?

Aloha Oye, Oye Vey thats Hawaiian for Nice.

[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 08 November 2002 at 06:44 PM.]

quote:

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I recently talked to the guys in the Ale'a band and asked them (young guys btw) if the younger local players like steel. They admitted it's hard to play. Uke is cool. IZ played uke. Steel's expensive. AND - then there's that 'tourist thing'.

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quote:

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I think Robert Randolph should move to Hawaii

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Chris -- I agree with you!

I think if Robert Randolph DID move to Hawaii, sentiments like those of the two 'yoots' you talked to would change, and their opinions about which instruments were cool would include the steel guitar.

I would think, though, that the 'tourist thing' would be the hardest hurdle to get over. Around here (near St. Pete, FL), it's Jimmy Buffett. If you want to play out on the beaches, and you don't play JB, you ain't playing the beach places. It's what the snow birds and tourists want to hear. Consequently, as a working musician, if you DO have JB in your repertoire, you're not respected by a lot of the other local musicians. So, it becomes a matter of pride and a badge of honor in musician's circles to say "I don't and WON'T do any JB songs!"

My answer to that is that's just stupid, closed mindedness. Music is music. There are only two kinds: GOOD music and BAD music. Irrespective of genre. But being branded with that "he plays tourist music" scarlet letter is hard to overcome, if one wants to be taken seriously.

Stupid, stupid, stupid...

TJW

Kenny,,,yes I know it was Santo playing steel on Sleepwalk,,I was just pulling someone's leg from another post a while back
where people claimed it was his brother Johnny who played steel.

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kd...and the beat goes on...

Interesting observation... I was going to bring up the very same point but saw the rope being tied in the tree. I think it is best to acquiesce to the fact that we "simply do not understand". See you at the bunker at midnight. The password is "no make stink eye".

[This message was edited by Jeff Au Hoy on 13 November 2002 at 08:01 AM.]

I like your hat,,whats the availability?
I once knew a guy who looked like that,,he was a "feather" salesman.He tickled people to
death.

Truman Capote? and Ava Gardner?

[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 18 November 2002 at 07:26 AM.]

As you may or may not know, I manufacture hats. I put out a few catalogs a year, one of which is a high end catalog of fancy trimmed lady's hats. Each season we do a theme for the cover, and this particular season, Meril (the designer )wanted a tropical theme. I saw my chance to ham it up by being in the background with my 1929 National Tricone.

Princess Pupuli.

[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 19 November 2002 at 07:12 PM.]

[This message was edited by Andy Volk on 20 November 2002 at 03:59 AM.]