Author
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Topic: Slanting the bar
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Jeff Au Hoy Member From: Honolulu, Hawai'i
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posted 24 January 2003 10:38 AM
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If we say that Byrd is to the steel guitar what Horowitz was to the piano, then we will severely pidgeonhole the steel guitar.There will be a young person somewhere that will pick up on JB's sound and think, "That's peanuts...I can do that easily." And he or she will do it easily, innovate, and take the JB sound to new levels. Like Jerry, it just takes a little initiative, creativity, and the desire to break away from the norm to realize little things like, hey, other people don't play reverse slants...hey, other people don't play seamless lines...hey other people play out of tune and don't give a hang about it. That person strives for a higher standard--and that will set them apart from the rest of the pack. It will happen. [This message was edited by Jeff Au Hoy on 24 January 2003 at 12:56 PM.] |
Brad Bechtel Moderator From: San Francisco, CA
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posted 24 January 2003 11:30 AM
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I don't agree completely with your statement. I think some young person will come along and think it's easy, but when they attempt to mimic him, they'll discover how hard it really is. They will then practice, practice, practice, and take it to another level. I would say that it hasn't happened yet, nor is it likely to happen as easily as you think it will.However, I am willing to wait until it does happen. ------------------ Brad's Page of Steel A web site devoted to acoustic & electric lap steel guitars
[This message was edited by Brad Bechtel on 24 January 2003 at 11:33 AM.]
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Jeff Au Hoy Member From: Honolulu, Hawai'i
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posted 24 January 2003 12:50 PM
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quote: They will then practice, practice, practice
Indeed, Brad. I left out perhaps the most important quotient! |
Rick Collins Member From: Claremont , CA USA
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posted 24 January 2003 02:56 PM
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Remember, if someone does take JB's sound to new levels, it will be because they stood on his shoulders. For me, it is difficult to conceptualize any new innovation that is not just an "add on" to the foundations already laid by the past collection of great players.I believe that most coming innovations are likely to come in the design of the steel guitar itself, rather than new sounds coming from the hands of the artist. Of course new tunes will be composed and new sound effects and technology will come. Rick [This message was edited by Rick Collins on 24 January 2003 at 02:58 PM.] |
Rick Aiello Member From: Berryville, VA USA
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posted 24 January 2003 05:06 PM
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To the "Next JB" ... I leave you my "Number System" slant/chord/scale chart I made in the early 80's .... C6/A7 tunin' .... Key of C ... Fret 0-24 C# E G A C E
3 5 6 1 3 2 4 4 6 7 2 3 5 1 5 4 7 3 6 1 2 4 6 5 7 2 3 5 7 6 1 4 1 3 6 7 2 4 5 2 1 7 3 5 6 1 3 2 4 4 6 7 2 3 5 1 5 4 7 3 6 1 2 4 6 5 7 2 3 5 7 6 1 4 1 3 6 7 2 4 5 2 1 7 3 5 6 1 3 Key of C
C D E F G A B C 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 1 I C 1 3 5 IIm7 Dm7 2 4 6 1 IIIm7 Em7 3 5 7 2 IV F 4 6 1 V7 G7 5 7 2 4 VIm7 Am7 6 1 3 5 VIIdim Bo 7 2 4
I7 C7 1 3 5 7b IMaj7 CMaj7 1 3 5 7 IAug C+ 1 3 5# IDim Co 1 3b 5b 6 I9 C9 1 3 5 7b 2 I13 C13 1 3 5 7b 6 Im7 Cm7 1 3b 5 7b
Reverse Slants Strings 1&2 and 1&4 and 2,4&5 and 1&3 Forward Slants Strings 2&3 and 2&5 and 1&3 and 1,2&3 and 5&6 Split Strings Strings 1,2&3 and 1,2&4 and 2,3&4 and 2,3&5 Many, many more for you to discover ... but these will get you started ... Once you get the patterns memorized ... start "slidin' this template" to other keys .... ------------------ My Steel Shoes Site
[This message was edited by Brad Bechtel on 25 January 2003 at 09:19 AM.]
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Kenny Dail Member From: Kinston, N.C. 28504
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posted 24 January 2003 05:24 PM
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I believe that Kayton Roberts is one of those "inovators" that has taken C6 and the Jerry Byrd style and technique to a higher/different level. If you ever have the opportunity to observe Katon play, watch his left hand for the forward and reverse slats and the pulls he does with the fingers behind the bar. Also, he does all this with a Stevens bar with no bullit nose. I would not call Kayton a "Jerry Byrd Clone" but a stylist within his own right.------------------ kd...and the beat goes on... |
Dave Mayes Member From: Piedmont, Ca.
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posted 02 February 2003 09:56 AM
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I took a close look and "listen" last night to what Carl said about the middle note of "split string" slants being flat. You are absolutely right Carl Dixon ! And, the problem increases the further up the neck you go ! I'll be pushin'down on that middle note from now on. Thanks for pointing that out Carl. |
Jesse Pearson Member From: San Diego , CA
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posted 02 February 2003 12:36 PM
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I too pulled out the tuner and found out Carl was right on point. I found out that I kinda let my outside fingers, used for dampening the strings behind the bar, snug up a little bit to the top string to kinda pull it against the tip of my bullet bar when pushing the middle string down to raise it's pitch.. Does any one else do this or is this a bad habit? |
C Dixon Member From: Duluth, GA USA
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posted 02 February 2003 12:58 PM
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Putting in wooden fence posts one time..Old man said to me, "I never ever had a problem getting the first two posts in line. It's that 3rd one that gives me a problem EVER time!"  Yesirree indeed it is. And in THIS example the "third note" is the middle one. It is just a "point of view". Simple logic. If the C is ok and the Eb is ok (from a simple two fret slant), that dang A is gonna be a problem with a straignt line bar. And 99% of the time it WILL be flat. Even when the nose of the bar is rounded, that middle string tends to be flat for me; an I believe most others. Pushin down on it IS the answer. The minute it was shown to me, I knew my problem for 40 yrs. Thank God for Garland Nash. Considering the last two posts, that makes 4 of us good ole boys  "And dat goes fer da mule ya rode in on too, dadgum it all!" And may he bless all of you, carl |
Ray Montee Member From: Portland, OR, USA
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posted 02 February 2003 01:15 PM
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Anyone that has spent any time at all reading the thousands of interesting, educational and challenging posts that appear regularly on this Forum, soon realize that many of today's steel players have very technical minds, along creativity and inventiveness. Likewise, today's steel guitars are musical wonders with so many variable and innovations to satisfy todays' players. Thus, I have to ask this question: WHY do so many of today's players appear to want to, expect to, or have already started to.... play this wonderful, beautiful and versatile instrument while choosing to equip themselves with only minimal playing skills and techniques? Is it the gimmickry that attracts many of them? The electronic gadgets? Because it's bigger than anyone else's instrument? or WHAT? By their own comments, many indicate that they have taken a multitude of short-cuts and yet seem so confused when it comes to those basics on which most of us old timers were taught to rely and that has kept us in the business after all these years. Some FACTS of LIFE, just don't change with the advent of some new device that will make playing the steel guitar easier to cheat on. Lots of interest these days in how to transform the sound of a $4,500 pedal steel guitar with matching amps and black boxes into that of an 18-wheeler HORN or train WHISTLE. We have a very talented man here in Oregon, a truly fine player, who makes his steel sound just like a 1/2 dozen other electronic based instruments. WHAT IS THE MOTIVATION for handicapping one-self? The burning desire to play well is only smoldering? Laziness? Instant gratification? Learning how to do it the hard way isn't any fun? |
Jeff Watson Member From: Palos Verdes, CA, USA
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posted 02 February 2003 04:39 PM
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It appears that Jerry Byrd (in Jack's post) is desribing a different split string slant than is being discussed by most. Though he begins by talking about a strings 2,3 and 5 slant, he switches and begins decribing a strings 1,2 and 3 slant in E major tuning (a slightly different beast). If you play this slant with the bar over the 6th fret on string 3 and the inside tip of the bar over the 7th fret on string 2, you'll find that Jerry's advice of pushing out on the top string will bring it to pitch. Though I've always thought of it more like pushing down between the top 2 strings, now that I read what Jerry has to say I realize what I've actually been doing. Thanks all for another great thread.[This message was edited by Jeff Watson on 02 February 2003 at 04:49 PM.] |
Dave Mayes Member From: Piedmont, Ca.
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posted 02 February 2003 07:21 PM
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I took a close look and LISTEN to what Carl said about the middle note of the "split string" technique being slightly flat. It most certainly is ! A big thanks to you and your friend Garland Nash for that illumination. I'll be pushin' down on that middle note from now on. |