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Author
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Topic: Murphey Right Hand Blocking
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Dave Mayes
Member From: Piedmont, Ca.
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posted 02 October 2004 07:15 PM
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I've seen several old film sequences of Joaquin playing intros or solos. The quality of these films range from very poor to pretty good. In these he appears to be using palm blocking exclusively - the side of his hand relaxed and resting on the stings in a more or less classic palm blocking position.I'm curious about Lee Jeffriess witnessing Joaquin using right hand pick blocking.
Assuming I'm correct in my observations ( and that's assuming a lot! ) - did Joaquin switch to pick blocking at some point or did he always pick block ? |
Dan Sawyer
Member From: Studio City, California, USA
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posted 03 October 2004 12:38 AM
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That's pretty surprising. I was just listening to Jaoquin with Spade Cooley. It sure sounds like pick blocking when he plays those fast, bebop-type runs. It seems like it would be impossible to palm block at those speeds.BTW, where did you see these clips? Are they collected on a DVD or tape we can buy? |
Roy Ayres
Member From: Starke, Florida, USA
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posted 03 October 2004 07:04 AM
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When playing single-note licks, Joaquin used just the tip of his bar, lifting it or moving to the next string or freet after each note. In those days that was the way we all played and we never referred to "blocking." I think that term must have started being used with the chromatic tunings -- especially when "speed picking" is dome with the bar laying flat over all or most strings.------------------
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Dave Mayes
Member From: Piedmont, Ca.
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posted 03 October 2004 08:55 AM
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Dan,
the collection I saw belonged to a dobro player aquaintance of mine (lost track of him a couple years ago). I think he told me he got his tapes from a western swing collector in the Midwest.
These brief shots of Joaquin never gave me the impression that he was "superhuman" - but we all know otherwise. |
Herb Steiner
Member From: Cedar Valley, Travis County TX
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posted 03 October 2004 09:00 AM
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Roy has it right. I've watched Joaquin play, and he used the Hawaiian technique of playing with the tip of the bar and the strings just played being muted by the ring and pinky fingers of his left hand. I do it all the time, as a lot of HI'an players I've seen. Doesn't work if the bar is flat on the strings constantly.------------------
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Al Marcus
Member From: Cedar Springs,MI USA
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posted 03 October 2004 09:27 AM
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Roy and Herb are right about that.
When we played in the 30's and 40's that is the way we did it.Picked up the bar a lot , used the tip for single notes, and did a lot of left hand blocking. It worked good for us in those days.........al  . ------------------
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Dan Sawyer
Member From: Studio City, California, USA
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posted 03 October 2004 01:48 PM
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Thanks for explaing that. |
Roy Ayres
Member From: Starke, Florida, USA
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posted 03 October 2004 04:20 PM
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. . . . . and I still do it that way.------------------
Visit my Web Site at RoysFootprints.com
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Gene Jones
Member From: Oklahoma City, OK USA
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posted 03 October 2004 04:44 PM
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......as for playing single string with the "end of the bar", I also learned to play that way. I remember my consternation when I first began playing E9 with the "fat" bars and the recommended method was to not raise the bar from the strings. I occasionally go back to my six-string steel and a small bar to remember the way I began. The thing is, that most of us "older" guys also did palm blocking, pick blocking, left hand blocking, played with the end of the bar, etc, but way back then there wasn't a "name" for any of it....it was just "playing", and by evolution we just used whatever was needed to facilitate what we were playing. However, I'm glad for the descriptive terms used today. It helps to communicate, especially for teaching or learning. www.genejones.com [This message was edited by Gene Jones on 05 October 2004 at 08:05 AM.] |
Bob Stone
Member From: Gainesville, FL, USA
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posted 05 October 2004 06:56 AM
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Hearing about Murphy's technique is good news to me. I learned Dobro before electric lap steel, so naturally gravitate to tipping the bar and left hand blocking. I also palm-block when appropriate. Seems like all a feller needs. What was good enough for Murph is good enough for me.If those pedal-steelers want to leave the bar on the strings all the time I guess that's their business. The old Bakelite's calling. I'm outa here...[This message was edited by Bob Stone on 05 October 2004 at 06:59 AM.] |
Dwayne Martineau
Member From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
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posted 05 October 2004 01:01 PM
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I find that when you play with a tipped bar, the blocking you need comes with very little effort. It cuts down on right-hand movement (palm blocking) and seems to me like the most efficient way of playing. |
Dan Tyack
Member From: Seattle, WA USA
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posted 05 October 2004 01:14 PM
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This description of Murphey's blocking technique also describes what the Sacred Steelers do for fast single note runs. Which is why they prefer stevens type steels (so you can tip the bar).------------------
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Jim Phelps
Member From: Mexico City
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posted 05 October 2004 01:27 PM
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.[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 17 November 2004 at 08:36 PM.] |
Travis Bernhardt
Member From: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
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posted 05 October 2004 02:21 PM
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Easier only in that it's easier to lift up the back of the bar, because of the groove. You can get used to moving up and down the strings with a flat Stevens bar, but I find it easier to use a semi-bullet type. Darick Campbell is somebody who plays with a semi-bullet, and Chuck Campbell plays with a "3/4-bullet"--a bullet bar with the sides scooped out (rather than a Stevens with a rounded tip).-Travis |
Bob Stone
Member From: Gainesville, FL, USA
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posted 06 October 2004 07:59 AM
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Jim,Like so many other things, getting used to a Stevens-type bar takes time. Starting on Dobro I played a Stevens first. When I got more into Hawaiian and electric lap steel I switched to a small bullet bar. After several years of that I took up a Scheerhorn-type bar on the Dobro to learn the hammer and pull-off techniques. I hated the Scheerhorn at first--it snagged at every turn. After putting in some time I can now play either bar with no problem. I still prefer the bullet for electric because I can do the two-strings-on-one-fret technique using the nose of the bar. And in my opinion, you don't need a sharp edge bar to get loud pull-offs on an electric. For acoustic steel, a sharp-edged bar is necessary to get loud, clear pull-offs. And you can still do bar slants. In a pinch you can turn a bullet bar around backwards to get a sharp edge. It doesn't work quite as well as a Stevens or Scheerhorn, but it works. I presently use a Gary Swallows wood-handled bar on reso and love it. Half the price of a Scheerhorn stainless and more comfortable in my opinion. For me, tipping the bar for single note passages seems a lot more natural than any type of right hand blocking. But that's how I started on Dobro. |
Peter Jacobs
Member From: Northern Virginia
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posted 06 October 2004 10:02 AM
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I've only been playing steel a few years, coming in as a banjo player. I use a Shubb SP-2, and I've always tipped up the bar as a Dobro player would, because it made it easier to play single notes cleanly. Probably why I've never gotten the hang of bottleneck-style playing...
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Jim Phelps
Member From: Mexico City
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posted 06 October 2004 10:17 AM
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.[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 17 November 2004 at 08:36 PM.] |
Dan Sawyer
Member From: Studio City, California, USA
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posted 06 October 2004 11:04 AM
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"Chuck Campbell plays with a "3/4-bullet"--a bullet bar with the sides scooped out". Is this something you can buy, or did he have it made? |
Bill Brummett
Member From: Greensburg, Pennsylvania, USA
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posted 06 October 2004 11:56 AM
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Using the tipped bar for single string notes and lifting the whole bar (so called left hand blocking) is the way I learned and still use most of the time, even on my pedal steel. As I really became consious of all the terms I also noted that I sometimes do the right hand palm blocking but without really thinkg about it.
It's just whtever seems to fit I guess. But I do feel that the "Hawaiian" left hand blocking provides a much smoother transition and sounds better as long as you can handle the bar on and off without adding noise.
Pure palm blocking, to me, aways sounds a bit choppy, unless it's one of the real masters, of course. ------------------
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Bob Stone
Member From: Gainesville, FL, USA
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posted 06 October 2004 02:06 PM
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The large bullet bars with the grooves in the sides that Chuck Campbell and some of the other House of God steelers use were custom made years ago buy Sho-Bud, if I'm not mistaken. They had just a few made, probably 6 or fewer. To my knowledge there is no ready-made bar of that configuration marketed today. I do think (not sure) a few custom bar makers may have made similar bars in recent years. Dan Tyack might chime in on this one. Dan?... |
Dan Sawyer
Member From: Studio City, California, USA
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posted 06 October 2004 02:33 PM
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"6 or fewer". Wow, that's not very much. Surprising, because it seems like the perfect bar shape, although i've never played one. I wonder why they made so few. Do you think it's because players wouldn't like them? Too expensive to manufacture? |
Travis Bernhardt
Member From: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
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posted 06 October 2004 04:24 PM
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They used to sell them at the Carter website, along with a "three-groove" model which had an additional scoop on top (there might still be pictures at the website--or in an archive). I think they're discontinued. Somebody could probably make you one, though.-Travis |
Bob Stone
Member From: Gainesville, FL, USA
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posted 07 October 2004 06:42 AM
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Dan,As I recall, sacred steeler Ted Beard had Sho-Bud make the bars. Four or six (or whatever the number was) was an economical small lot and Beard was sure he and his fellow House of God steelers could use that many. Sho-Bud was not interested in stocking such an item as they had no other requests. After all, lifting the bar from the strings was not "proper" pedal-steel technique. |
c c johnson
Member From: killeen,tx usa
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posted 07 October 2004 07:47 AM
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I've seen Emmons, Charlton, Rugg, Reece, Tom Morrell(when he was playing pedals) and others tip the huge bars they used when it was called for. They are better men than me to lift up those huge bars. I don't have a limp wrist either, Keoki Lake. CC |
Herb Steiner
Member From: Cedar Valley, Travis County TX
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posted 07 October 2004 08:13 AM
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I don't have a problem tipping a standard sized bar, and I've got smaller hands than a 12-year old.------------------
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Gene Jones
Member From: Oklahoma City, OK USA
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posted 07 October 2004 08:48 AM
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I understand what your saying Herb, but you are still young. When you are older and may be afficted with the limitations of arthritis, some compromises may be necessary! Luv ya guy.... Gene
www.genejones.com |
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