Since Joseph Kekuku's home was in La'ie in 1885 when he is credited with inventing the Steel Guitar, ...and in 1885 La'ie was about as far out in the Oahu boonies as one could get, ...and in 1889 Joseph became a resident student at Kamehameha School during the week (and Kamehameha's charter and tradition is preserving Hawaiian language and culture); ...then I would imagine that Hawaiian was Joseph's primary language and the name he gave his Steel Guitar was likely in the Hawaiian language. A number of Hawaiians played the Steel in the first decade of the 1900's ...while it was quite foreign to the rest of the world until introduced in the Hawaii Pavillion shows at the Panama Pacific Exposition in 1915; A great success Joseph himself enterprised upon in his performance tours. So I guess the question is whether the Hawaiian language name "Kika Kila" (Ki-KAh' KI'LAh ... because there are no "G", "R", "T" nor "S" in Hawaiian Phoenetics nor alphabet ... and every word must end in a vowel sound) predates the english language coinage of the name "Steel Guitar". Kika Kila litterally translates "Guitar, Steel" or Steel Guitar in english. I highly doubt that Hawaiians waited 30 years for some American to coin the name "Steel Guitar" just so the Hawaiians could have a name to translate. I would imagine that the name Kika Kila arose from Joseph and possibly others subsequently playing the Guitar quite impressively with a steel tone-bar like Joseph manufactured in the Kamehameha School machine shop after experimenting for 4 years with railroad spikes (some accounts say railroad bolt), combs, tumblers, razors, knives and god knows what else he tried ...(and I never heard it called a spike guitar or comb guitar etc.). And besides, early English literature popularly refered to the steel guitar as the Hawaiian Guitar right up until that name faded out of popularity around the 1950's, replaced by the name "Steel Guitar" which seems to have started around the 1930's, ...probably because the translated proper name was realized (and the name Hawaiian Steel Guitar marrying in there somewhere). Supporting that assumption is that had it not been, then it seems rather plausible that the Hawaiin name for "Hawaiian Guitar" would have been "Kika o'Hawai'i" (Hawaiian Guitar) ...which I also have never heard here in reference to the Steel Guitar. I've read Jerry Byrd saying that the Hawaiian name is Steel Guitar while the English name is Hawaiian Guitar.

So academically, ...so we don't appear ignorant in public or mislead the public, ...my SWAG is that the "proper" name is Kika Kila, ... or in English it would be Steel Guitar for those that don't mind trading off a bit of clarity for a bit of ignorance. Boy are we gonna have a tough time finding non-pedal console Steels and Lap Steels on eBay and with search engines, ....once we educate the planet!

ALOHA,
DT~

[This message was edited by Denny Turner on 12 October 2004 at 11:55 AM.]

Regarding "hawaiian guitar"; i've tried that a few times and often the other person will say, "Oh yeah, i like that slack-key stuff"!

For more on this subject, Here is the original post that started this topic: http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum2/HTML/005805.html

[This message was edited by Dan Sawyer on 12 October 2004 at 01:14 PM.]

BTW My first name, in Hawaiian, means Heavenly.
My last name in English, means Spirit or ghost.

Aloha,
DT~

[This message was edited by Denny Turner on 13 October 2004 at 03:31 PM.]

Rick, ...one of our fine forumites, ...got a bit loose with his words, probably with no ill intent whatsoever, in how serious he takes the matter of what a Steel Guitar should be called, ...although his inference to a person's ignorance for not calling it "Hawaiian Steel Guitar" did kinda rub me the wrong way; So I thought I'd answer tongue-in-cheek. If it sounded snobbish to you, it wasn't intended that way; I was trying to be comical with tongue in cheek.

Rick said:

quote:

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"I ALWAYS call it what it is; as I would be as ignorant about the instrument I'm playing, as the folks asking, if I didn't."

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quote:

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"When the ... Hawaiian Steel went Electric ... "Hawaiian Steel Guitar" was accepted immediately and to me, that is the proper name and every other name is a slang version of what it really is. We the players that continue to call it other than what it is, are promoting the ignorance of our instrument."

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quote:

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"...it's my duty to inform as I take a lot of pride in the musical instrument I play; and the history and future of it."

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quote:

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"If we ignore history and don't inform to the future; than we are just as ignorant as the folks inquiring about it and maybe we should learn more about the instrument we are playing; so we can inform properly.

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My reply was to say that I don't think "Hawaiian Steel Guitar" WAS it's historic original name, if history and accuracy is as important as Rick suggested; And I don't think anyone is ignorant because they might have a circumstance, context, need or desire to call the Steel Guitar any one of it's accurate historically acquired names; And (tongue in cheek) if ignorance is gauged by not knowing and promoting the history of "what it really is", then maybe we should consider calling it by it's real original Hawaiian name Kika Kila? I don't think so!

Jim, you asked:

quote:

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"If it translates LITERALLY as "Guitar, Steel"; how is "Steel Guitar", "trading off a bit of clarity for a bit of ignorance"?"

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Just my tongue in cheek / dry humor / sometimes poor language way, I guess, of saying if it is ignorant to not use the proper historic name, then maybe we should get the history right. Frankly I don't think anyone is ignorant because they use any of the several names history has given the Steel Guitar to suit a circumstance, context, need or desire.

Aloha,
DT~

[This message was edited by Denny Turner on 14 October 2004 at 07:08 AM.]

If you interpreted what I said as unclear and snobbish, then my vernacular was probably crude enough to appear that way. It darn sure got me to re-examine my words and try to again present my intent. And I must admit that my unclear vernacular not conveying what I intended, was rather like doing the same thing I was poking at Rick for doing.

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Rick,

Now that you mention it; I too have expounded many times upon the litteral meaning of ignorance simply being a lack of data ...delineated from and not dumb or stupid etc; But didn't even consider that when reading your opinion.

....Just examples of how our best intentions can and will occasionally get skewed. I am also reminded of what fine folks frequent this forum, ...and unlike many other forums, misunderstandings here are resolved quite respectably ...even after sometimes heated and stimulating debate. I feel quite fortunate to frequent and learn here.

When I say "Hawaiian steel guitar," their eyes light up and they say, "No way! You mean the thing that makes all those waaaaaoeeeeeee sounds?"

Pedal-free Steel Guitar
6-string
Hawaiian Guitar
T-8
Unpedal Steel Guitar
We-don't-need-no-stinking-pedals Steel Guitar
Steel Guitar
Hawaiian Steel
Straight Steel
Lap Steel
Reso
Okie Organ
Joy Stick
Electrified, country-fried, iron-slide Hai-wiian steel git-tar
Hillbilly piano
2x6 with strings
Hawaiian Steel Guitar
Kika Kila
Koka Kola

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For the foreseeable future, most of the public (and Musicians) by far will hear the Steel Guitar on recordings, ...and relatively few (but a growing number!) will hear, notice and be exposed to Steel Guitar in a live performance. On a recording, most people will not even notice & differentiate a non-pedal Steel from a Pedal Steel. I hate to admit it, but I didn't either for the first 30 years of my playing Guitar! And pointed is that I was exstatic and fully consumed when I did finally realize what non-pedal Steel Guitarists could do.

So in promoting the Steel Guitar and it's unique treasury of characters, ...we might consider convincing Producers to add this (or similar) text to liner notes:

"The Steel Guitar on this recording is of the original type that is a challenge to play well because it has no dynamic tuning-changing pedals that are on Pedal Steel Guitars. The Steel Guitar predates the Pedal Steel Guitar which is also a challenge in it's own right. The Steel Guitar in all of it's configurations has remained alive and well and growing in discovery and popularity in most types of popular Music because of it's very unique and pleasant sounds that no other instrument can produce ."

In live performances we might convince the Front Man to introduce the Steel Guitar(ist) in a similar manner as well as any other instrument on stage that might benefit from same. There are other opportunities to similarly promote a more thorough public awareness of the Steel Guitar. If we make it a point to promote the unique characters of the Steel Guitar, ...I think it will eventually go a long way in stimulating public awareness, discussions and interest in the very unique sounds we enjoy so much "simply" by having discovered it.

I would further propose that if a Steel Guitar association were to print out some pamphlets on the history and character of the Steel Guitar; A considerable number of Steelers might purchase them in bulk to keep in their gig bags to hand out when people inquire about the instrument. Initial funding might be acquired by donations from Steel Guitar Interests who could be listed inside the back cover.

Aloha,
DT~

[This message was edited by Denny Turner on 14 October 2004 at 03:27 PM.]

Then when I got the Supro, we called it the Electric Hawaiian Guitar.

Then when I got a D8, we advertised it as Al Marcus and his "Console Grande".

Then when I went to Pedals, it was Al Marcus and his Electra-Harp.

Then when I went country, we finally called it Pedal Steel Guitar. Whew!!!......al

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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/

The name steel guitar comes from the steel tone bar used to play it. Many of these bars are not made out of steel anymore including the hard rubber Red Rajah, the Lapdancer Slipperyslide and others. So calling it a "bar guitar" or "tone-bar guitar" is more accurate, but very confusing.

When people hear the name steel guitar, they often get an image of a guitar made out of steel. This naturally leads to thoughts of metal body guitars like Nationals and Dobros.

Of all the names, plain old vanilla Steel guitar seems to be the best way to go. I also liked "straight steel".