I've been told by my best local electronics supplier that these types of switches have recently gone obsolete.

But seriously, I realize this is an old technique, but I find I am listening almost exclusively to Lee Jeffriess on steel with Big Sandy and his Fly-Rite Boys, as well as Don Herron with BR549, and Chris Scruggs on his personal project. I believe I can deal with the "chatter", or "static" effect using a momentary on-off stomp switch, which is readily available. However, the "Doo-Wah" that I am hearing does not seem to be a sweeping tone change, but rather a quick movement from one tone to the other, leading me to believe that a tone pot is not being used, and instead there is a switch to quickly change from one tone circuit to another. Or do these guys whip that tone pot rapidly from on to off with their pinkies?

[This message was edited by Bryan Bradfield on 23 October 2004 at 10:34 AM.]

Don

I use a 1 meg pot with a .05 capacitor. The 1 meg pot gives you a short distance of travel from "OOO" to "AHH" (From 1 to about 3 on a numbered tone knob). I'm thinking of going to a 500K pot to achieve more of a "waterfall" sweep (in the spirit of Jerry Byrd on "I'm So Lonesome I Could Cry", "Wahbash Blues", and "Steelin' The Blues").

The problem with an on and off button would be that you can't play your wah wah in tempo with the song, which would greatly effect your execution. It would be like when you play a chord half a step flat and slide up to the root chord, you could only do it at one speed. You would loose the emotion/groove of the performance.

Just my thoughts, CS

[This message was edited by Chris Scruggs on 23 October 2004 at 08:47 PM.]

In addition, you are the first one to indicate that a switch was used for the "studder" effect. Until now, I've been told that I must smash the bar down for that effect. However, I will take Don Joslin's advice, and get a copy of Cindy Cashdollar's video, just to learn that bar crash technique.

Loni - after Chris spoke of keeping the wah in tempo with the song, I see the folly of using a switch for the effect, and I also suspect that preadjusting an auto wah may be problematic.

Do you detect an increasing persistance by newer players, oh, say since the 1970's, to nearly always insist on not only rebuilding the steel guitar with arm rests, hand rests, etc., as well as "stomp box" type mechanical affects rather than doing it like it has always been done, not only by the original artist, but by those serious steel guitar wanna-be's that followed in their shadow?

Similar comments have included using GLUE to keep finger picks on; using four finger picks instead of using the thumb to roll the two or three bottom strings in a full chord while plucking the top strings with the two finger-picks; some kind of electronic gizmo to make TONE; virtually every imaginable device to "TAKE A SHORT-CUT" as opposed to learning how to properly use the picks, the bar, the tone control knob, the volume knob and last but not least, the creative mind to develop a listenable and desireable personal STYLE...

WHile most of us have spent a life time of being anxious and desirous of getting to play in a great musical group, the mere thought of having been self taught for three or four weeks (or months!) and actually expressing the shock that they haven't yet wrapped up that big gig, as yet, I find, a little disturbing. What's that about instant gratification.........or whatever?

Some of you that are interested in the Doo-Wah noises.....and find it difficult to understand just how it was actually/properly done by the likes of Speedy West.....you will have to familiarize yourself first, with the Bigsby Steel Guitars. Unlike the later Fenders, Rickenbachers, Gibsons, Nationals, etc., the Bigsby had a larger knob that was tapered in such a way it fit nicely into one's cupped right hand, the entire hand, and it was mounted on the right end plate of the guitar; not just an itsy bitsy knob on top of the guitar and mounted in between a volume knob and kneck selector toggle switch. Paul Bigsby put it where he did for a reason, shaped it the way he did for reason and it was taken advantage of by Speedy West and others for obvious reasons. Current placement of this tone control knob on most current guitars, required about as much musical sense as making a plastic radio for the family of the 1930-1940's.

[This message was edited by Ray Montee on 24 October 2004 at 12:33 PM.]

But, not matter how hard I try, I just can't get my pinky in the rhythm of picking and rolling the tone knob at just the right moment...and most of my guitars don't have the tone knob by the pinky anyway. Perhaps I just need someone to teach this technique to me "in person" ...maybe that would help, unless I'm just pinky challenged

I think I've got the bar slams 'down'...I put the volume up full, and slam the bar while simultaneously rolling the tone knob (but I'm not 'picking' here...the slam takes care of sounding the strings). It works great on songs like "Lover."

But for more 'control' of the WAH sound, I was hoping for a tone 'pedal'...similar to the volume foot pedal...I could line the two of them up, side by side.

But I tried a Cry-Baby Wah-Wah pedal at my local music store, and it didn't sound anything at all like the Wah-Wah sound a steel should make! It was a heavy metal rock sound.

Those "dual action" pedals are too rare and expensive. Plus, a couple of players have told me they don't work like you would imagine...the action isn't the same...that's why they didn't last...(but I wasn't around then, so I'm only repeating their opinions).

I remember Jerry Byrd and I were about the same age in Ohio. We both used the big tone control with your pinkey finger wrapped around it.

Alvino Rey did a lot of that too, including the bar crashes, then boo wah with that tone control. His old recording of "Idaho" was one he did that on..

I did that a lot in 1938 and it was exciting in those days, and got very favorable response.

As Jeff, says, we used it a lot with songs like "Lover" real fast too.

I think all that stuff ought to be brought back by the big recording boys today, it would make the steel sound exciting and new again.

What goes around comes around....al

------------------
My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/

Of course, we could all learn to play like Joaquin Murphy, then we wouldn't need a bag of tricks to keep up with the guitar player (just kidding guys)

I personally prefer the tone knob placement on top than on the side. Coming from a Byrd fan, I don't understand how one could play "Steelin' The Blues" or Byrd's arrangement of "Wahbash Wah" on a Bigsby with the tone knob all the way over on the side.

When you lay your hands down on the guitar, they naturally face inward, in the direction of travel of the Fender knobs. I like this because I don't have to move my whole arm to turn it, just my wrist and hand. With the Bigsby, not only do I have to completely remove my arm from the top of thew guitar, but I have to turn my hand upside down.

Not to say one way is better, but with the tone knob on the side, the only way to play those songs is with a volume/tone pedal, which I would rather not be depenant on (though I own and love my Bigsby, Fender, and DeArmond pedals). It's just another thing to break and have to restring half way through a song. Plus I feel I can play better with my hands than with my foot shaking left to right.

I don't think there is anything "little", "pesky" or "toylike" about Fender knobs. They seem pretty substantial to me. I completely agree about disliking "toys" and "tricks" like extra finger picks, armrests and E bows and stuff like that. But a Fender tone knob isn't any more toylike than a Bigsby knob, it's just in a different spot and shaped differently.

Just my thoughts,

Chris

P.S.

I believe Rickenbacker and Gibson put the tone controls on top of their guitars years before Bigsby ever built a musical instrument. Bigsbys aren't better than Fenders, and Fenders aren't better than Bigsby's.It's just a matter of personal preferance is all.

[This message was edited by Chris Scruggs on 25 October 2004 at 11:41 PM.]

I don't think the reason the volume/tone pedals didn't last had anything to do with their design. It was because western swing fell out of fashion, and horns left country music (and most music, for that part). Thus, steel guitars didn't need to immulate horns anymore. That's why the Stringmasters have the tone knob out of the way, behind the bridge. It just wasn't the style anymore.

Plus, pedal steel came along, and players had something brand new to work on, and the trusty old wah wah sounded dated. Now that "Slowly" is over 50 years old, audiences seem more impressed with an unheard of (to most of them) explosive crash bar, Speedy West inspired, "OOWAH!", or a whiny, trumpet like, three string "OOOWAH OOWAH", than the now familiar pedal cry of an E chord stretching into an A.

Chris

[This message was edited by Chris Scruggs on 26 October 2004 at 12:01 AM.]

Hey Al aren't you and Jerry STILL about the same age,
in Cedar Springs and Hawaii ?

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 26 October 2004 at 12:32 AM.]

I love to hear Vance Terry use this effect on his Billy Jack Wills recordings. And yes I know it was a bigsby.