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Author
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Topic: Magin' for b0b - Revisited
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Rick Aiello
Member From: Berryville, VA USA
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posted 17 November 2004 04:23 AM
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"Aged" may be good for Scotch Whiskey ... but not magnets.I just got this email from Russ Wever ... Branson, MO quote:
Hi Rick,I got the mag's in and WOW, what a huge difference - I feel like I got a new steel, the 'meat' of the tone is back and it has that sweet 'shreik' (okay, so I'm not a whiz with verbage) when sliding double-stops in the upper range. D&#n!! Until now I hadn't realized just how badly the sound had deteriorated - even the 'tactile' feel of the strings seems to feel for the better' under the picks.
This is exciting!! I sent off the other mag's - they went out Monday by USPS. You should see them by the weekend. Thanks again,
Russ
From Rich Mermer - Mermer Guitars ... Sebastian, FL (my old Snook fishin'- hang-out) quote:
Hi Rick:
They came in this afternoons mail and I just finished installing and setting them up per your instructions. YES, very noticeable difference. Bass cleaner and crisper with more volume all the way around . Thanks so much!
We'll get out on the water next time your down this way!
Mahalo,
Rich
Why buy a new steel ... when your old one is just 0.03 seconds away from being "alive again" ... All for a donation to b0b's Forum and return postage  ------------------
Aiello's House of Gauss
My wife and I don't think alike. She donates money to the homeless and I donate money to the topless! ... R. Dangerfield
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Rick Aiello
Member From: Berryville, VA USA
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posted 17 November 2004 04:32 AM
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Oh , I forgot ... I've done some real cool ones for folks ... My favorite so far was this GIANT single horseshoe magnet from a '30s National Electric Hawaiian ...  Still waitin' on word from Guam on that one ... but as much as she charged up ...  |
Wayne Carver
Member From: Martinez, Georgia, USA
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posted 17 November 2004 04:58 AM
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Is there a "rule of thumb" that you can use for the break down of magnets strength? Are they rated for "half life" like radioactive material.
A vendor for those magnets you wear for joint pain said her magnets were better than refrigerator magnets so i guess all magnets are not created equal.
Once I was reworking a 1939 Evinrude that needed a coil and a parts man said that even if i found a NOS coil it might not work. I can see how a magnet would break down but how could a coil of wire break down? I did find a used one that worked. |
Bob Stone
Member From: Gainesville, FL, USA
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posted 17 November 2004 05:15 AM
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Rick,I can't give enough praise for the way you transformed my pre-1937 B6. Just incredible tone, response and sustain. And those glassy highs that cut through even the worst PA mud, but are never harsh. Wherever I play, people comment on the big sound of the little guitar. And by "big sound" I don't mean loudness. My eternal gratitude to Bill Creller as well. He chased the wolftones out of the string grooves. I think of you both every time I play my plastic baby. Aiello and Creller: the dynamic duo. Thanks guys. |
Rick Aiello
Member From: Berryville, VA USA
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posted 17 November 2004 05:25 AM
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quote:
Is there a "rule of thumb" that you can use for the break down of magnets strength? Are they rated for "half life" like radioactive material.
Its known as Coercivity ... Depending on the type of magnet ... this value varies greatly. Rickenbacher horseshoes are "hardened steel" magnets ... very low coercivity (easy to degauss). To make matters worse ... they are arranged (N) to (N) and (S) to (S) ... the worst possible configuration for longevity ... but they need to be in that config to work. Fender Trapazoidal/Boxcar are Alnico ... a much higher coercivity ... But because the (N) poles are "yolked" together (as are the (S) ... by the steel coverplate ... they degauss even faster than Rickys ... But again, they have to be that way to work. Supro style (string thru) is the same set-up as a Fender (magnet-wise) ... but with a much lower quality alnico. Temperature plays a role also ... as Tarzan would say ... "Hot Bad" ...  These make up 95% of the remagin' jobs. Neodymium-Iron-Boron magnets have tremendously high coercivity ... so they will never need recharging ... unless subjected to temps above 300 F or extremely strong magnetic fields ... So no playin' those Dustpans while you're gettin' an MRI ... or visitin Haleakala Oh ... quote:
how could a coil of wire break down?
Not my area ... but the insulation will eventually deteriorate and/or corrosion ultimately will rear its ugly head . |
John Pelz
Member From: Maineville, Ohio, USA
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posted 17 November 2004 06:37 AM
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I will vouch for the great sonic improvement that re-gaussing mags results in. Actually, I guess that it's really not an improvement per se, rather a restoration of the steel's original sound. Rick has re-gaussed the magnets on a couple of my steels, but the change in my '52 Dual Pro pups was particularly noticeable. The pups sounded good enough to this beginner's ears before regaussing, but after I got the re-gaussed mags put back in, it was almost like having a new steel! The bass sounded punchier, and the high range was noticeably stronger. Just a real nice, balanced, stronger sound. For lack of a better description, the pups sounded more "alive."And the fact that Rick does this only in consideration of a donation to the Forum (the amount is up to the shipper; the shipper covers postage) makes this an indispensable service to the steel guitar community. Rick, you are "Da Man." (And I'll get my Rick B6 mags sent to you one of these days -- whenever I decide that I can bear to have the B6 "down" for a little while...) Thanks so much for providing this service.[This message was edited by John Pelz on 17 November 2004 at 06:38 AM.] |
Jeff Strouse
Member From: Jacksonville, Florida, USA
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posted 17 November 2004 06:46 AM
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Rick brought my Bakelite T-Logo back to life. I rarely played it prior to him recharging it. Since then, not only do I play it, but I have even used it on gigs. It's amazing what a zap with his electromagnet can do! Rick, could you somehow hook me up to it? Maybe it would give me the vigor and stamina I once had when I was 18.... |
Rick Aiello
Member From: Berryville, VA USA
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posted 17 November 2004 07:13 AM
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Thanks y'all ... I enjoy it.Just in from Guam: quote:
Dear Rick,Thanx for re-gaussing the magnet for the National lap steel. It arrived today and I slammed it right back in that puppy at once. Big difference. The sound is now very strong and more harmonically balanced. I found that I have to angle the two strips of metal that make up the pickup rails in such a way that the parts under the two middle strings are closer to the strings than in the extreme treble and extreme bass strings. In doing that I was able to get just about equal volume on each string as I strum across. I guess the fact that there are two separate pieces of metal with a gap under the middle strings that leaves the magnetic field weak where the gap is. Later on...... Bruce ..... Guam
Jeff, my wife often says I need "electro-shock" therapy ... but thats a different story (and machine) ------------------
Aiello's House of Gauss
My wife and I don't think alike. She donates money to the homeless and I donate money to the topless! ... R. Dangerfield
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Ray Minich
Member From: Limestone, New York, USA
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posted 17 November 2004 02:16 PM
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My dad's got an old military magneto horseshoe shaped magnet that must weigh 30 to 40 pounds. We've used it to fish stuff outa the lake, and pick up stray roofing nails after a roofing job. We always keep a flat piece of steel across the faces as a "keeper" when it's being stored. Also, we store it as close to the ground as possible so it can't fall very far. They don't take kindly to being dropped.Rick, you've spent a lot of time working with magnets by the looks of it. I've always wondered about the fracture surface of a broken magnet. Is the fracture surface so "crystalline" in appearance 'cause the material is so hard in the first place?[This message was edited by Ray Minich on 17 November 2004 at 02:18 PM.] |
Jon Light
Member From: Brooklyn, NY
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posted 17 November 2004 02:42 PM
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I've got a post-war Panda that sounds, well, perfectly ok. If it were yours, Rick, would you zap it just on general principal? I don't play this guitar much. Could it be that it's just got the blahs and would wake up with your treatment? |
Rick Aiello
Member From: Berryville, VA USA
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posted 17 November 2004 03:46 PM
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Ray ... magnets (all types) owe their abilities to specific regions within their crystalline structure ... the Domains.The net vector sum of the Domains produces the net magnetism. Factors that influence crystalline structure and mineral grain size play huge roles in magnetism ... i.e. magnetocrystalline anisotrophy, magnetostriction and shape anisotrophy ... the keys to magnetization. That magneto magnet of yours is probably a hardened steel magnet (i.e Ricky Horseshoes) ... probably cobalt steel. The "heat treating" or "hardening" process changes the microstructure of steel ... basically from Austenite to Martensite . It is the super hard martensitic "state" ... that allows steel to retain its magnetism (i.e. become a permanent magnet). Funny thing you brought up magnetos ... my first home-built electromagnet was patterened after this. I hope that answered your question Ray ... Ray ...hmmm ... Mr.Minich .... Ray .... WAKE UP Jon, when I buy a Ricky ... first thing I do is zap the magnets ... ain't seen one yet that didn't need it (closest was Ian M. ... whose B6 and Silver Hawaiian were very close to their max ... must be that Canadian weather). You might think it sounds good now ... It's like the guy who has only eaten ground meat all his life ... goin' to Al's Steakhouse ... and having Black Angus Prime Rib for the first time ... A life-altering experience ... right Howard and Harry
[This message was edited by Rick Aiello on 17 November 2004 at 04:16 PM.] |
Jon Light
Member From: Brooklyn, NY
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posted 17 November 2004 04:20 PM
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Thanks for the answer, Rick. When I get my stuff together it sounds like this would be a good thing to do. The Silver Hawaiian too. |
John McGann
Member From: Boston, Massachusetts, USA
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posted 17 November 2004 04:47 PM
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Awhile back, Rick zapped my '54 Dual Pro pickups and now they have the JUICE...since I was not born until 1959, I don't know for sure if they sound like they did in '54, but I know one thing- they were down about 50% before Rick recharged them, and the horn is now punchy, fat and very satisfying. Thanks again, Rick!!!!------------------
http://www.johnmcgann.com
Info for musicians, transcribers, technique tips and fun stuff. Joaquin Murphey solos book info and some free stuff : http://www.johnmcgann.com/joaquin.html |
Harry Dietrich
Member From: Robesonia, Pennsylvania, USA
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posted 17 November 2004 08:39 PM
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10-4 on the Steakhouse, Rick.........but remember, I only had the spaghetti......Howard splurged on the steak.When I read all this technical stuff you write about, I now realize I was in the presence of a genius. Happy pickin
Harry |
Harry Williams
Member From: Duncan, Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
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posted 23 November 2004 08:50 PM
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Rick: I've enjoyed learning about magnets in this thread. Do you remagnetize all lap steel magnets, such as Supros, or just Fenders and Rickenbackers? Thanks, Harry ------------------
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Rick Aiello
Member From: Berryville, VA USA
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posted 24 November 2004 04:59 AM
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I've done lots ... Supros, Nationals (various types) ... even a Fender Humbucker with Cunife (Copper-Nickel-Iron) pole pieces.What I don't feel "safe" doing are pickups that are "sealed" in their case. Trying to open them may disrupt the coil ... then its off to Jason Lollar for a rewind  |
Ray Minich
Member From: Limestone, New York, USA
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posted 24 November 2004 05:40 AM
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Thanks for the info Rick, I always wondered which came first, the magnetism or the crystalline structure. You've explained it perfectly, the crystal is there first then it gets magnetized. (Now is that face centered cubic or body centered cubic? I'll have to look that up...  ) |
Rick Aiello
Member From: Berryville, VA USA
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posted 24 November 2004 06:12 AM
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Martensite has a body centered cubic unit cell ... with the carbon atom as the "chewy center" Austenite is face centered. Its the rapid cooling ... in heat treating ... that traps the carbon in the center ... and does not allow the face centered configuration to re-form. Cryogenic treatment ... finishes the job that heat treating starts ... by converting any remaining austenite to martensite. Austenite cannot "exist" at temperatures -330 F. |
Loni Specter
Member From: West Hills, CA, USA
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posted 24 November 2004 10:59 PM
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Rick,
If you magnatize chickens, will the hen's eggs be higher in iron? Will a rooster always point North?
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b0b
Sysop From: Cloverdale, California, USA
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posted 24 November 2004 11:33 PM
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I just want to once again thank Rick for this valuable service. It's been wonderful getting checks from all of these happy people. Rick figured out a way to make steel guitars sound better and support the community at the same time.
Thanks, Rick, for all you've done.------------------
 Bobby Lee
-b0b- quasar@b0b.com
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Rick Aiello
Member From: Berryville, VA USA
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posted 25 November 2004 08:05 AM
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My pleasure ... |
Alan Kirk
Member From: Santa Barbara, CA, USA
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posted 28 November 2004 03:11 PM
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Got my supro/silvertone magnet back from Rick. The pickup is back to full power now and has about twice the output as it did before the remag. It's like getting a new guitar.Thanks, Rick! ------------------
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Ian McLatchie
Member From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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posted 28 November 2004 06:29 PM
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". . . ain't seen one yet that didn't need it (closest was Ian M. ... whose B6 and Silver Hawaiian were very close to their max ... must be that Canadian weather)."I know that these two pickups were far closer to original specs. than most Rick has worked on, and the difference in sound quality in both after Rick worked
his magic was ENORMOUS. I can't imagine how much better some of the more seriously depleted ones must sound after regaussing. You da man, Rick! |
Jason Lollar
Member From: Seattle area
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posted 30 November 2004 04:50 PM
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"I can see how a magnet would break down but how could a coil of wire break down?"
there are alot of different reasons that could happen. One is the wire in the coil is often as fine or finer than hair and it is insulated with a coating that is only microns thick. Look at just about any guitar that is 50 years old and youll see cracks in the finish, if the insulation on the coil wire degrades the coil will short out.
sometimes the form the coil is wound around degrades and shrinks or breaks, this can short out the coil. Other types have the coil wound directly around magnets, corrosion will eventually travel down the magnets and short out the coil.
Trapazoids are wound on a bais and the coil wants to slip downhill on the core, almost all the ones potted in schellac give way or will eventually and break. |
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