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Author
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Topic: Anyone tried to make bakelite?
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Mike Simpson
Member From: Gilbert, Arizona, USA
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posted 31 December 2004 08:24 PM
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I am curious and have looked around the internet a little and mostly find only general information primarily related to history, patents and collectible items. I was looking for something like a formula (like a recipe) of how much carbolic acid and formaldehyde to combine?Were the Bakelite Ricks made using this process?
quote:
brittle resin compound that is the product of this combination is allowed to cool before being ground into powder form and, usually, mixed with fillers such as wood flour (effectively, fine sawdust) or cotton. Pigments for colouring are added at this stage. Catalysts and other chemicals are then added and the mixture heated to create a thermosetting compound that required great heat and pressure to make it melt. Finally the resin compound is re-ground into powder and pressed into blocks known as pre-forms for use in moulding presses such as the Ekco 500 ton hydraulic press pictured below. Inserts such as brass screw retainers may be added to the mould before the pressure casting. Under great pressure and considerable heat the powder pre-forms become a viscous liquid that flows into the steel cabinet mould. The polymer material then forms cross links and sets permanently, retaining the exact contours of the original mould.
Do you have to make bakelite, grind it up, add sawdust of some filler, and then mould it using high heat and pressure? Below appears Baekeland's original apparatus for the production of Bakelite ...
 Some good info on this website... http://bakelite_world_2001.tripod.com/itsbakeliteyouknow/id12.html Someone did it before therefore it is possible...
Perhaps I am overly inspired by Rick's dustpans. Being bullheaded and stubborn I made my own Tricone out of German Silver a year or two ago...  ------------------
Big Mike http://www.blueswizards.net [This message was edited by Mike Simpson on 01 January 2005 at 05:51 AM.]
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Donny Hinson
Member From: Balto., Md. U.S.A.
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posted 31 December 2004 08:54 PM
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I couldn't say for sure, but I would think that 500-ton hydraulic press just might take it out of the realm of being a simple "basement or kitchen project"!  |
Rick Aiello
Member From: Berryville, VA USA
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posted 31 December 2004 09:01 PM
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I aways heard the "secret" was in the walnut shell powder ... filer.Its not the bakelite itself that has kept "do-gooders" away ... its the price of the steel injection mold. For an "Academy" shaped guitar ... I was quoted $65K plus a minimum order.  Long live sand and Happy Ney Year  |
Terry Farmer
Member From: Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA
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posted 31 December 2004 09:36 PM
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Hey Mike,
Beautiful Tricone. How does the Silver sound? I would guess much mellower than brass or steel. Could you post a soundbyte? Happy New Year! |
Ed Naylor
Member From: portsmouth.ohio usa
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posted 01 January 2005 07:04 AM
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I have built a couple BAKELITE prototype guitars in the past year and everyone that has played them really like them. I had one at the LEXINGTON show with a GEORGE,L PU and I had an original 7 string Bakelite.Everyone seemed to like the George L sound better. IT was cleaner and more sustain.Ed Naylor Steel Guitar Works. |
c c johnson
Member From: killeen,tx usa
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posted 01 January 2005 07:42 AM
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Man how I envy you folks with your creativity and craftsmanship. I have trouble pounding a nail; my wife won't buy me a nailer; shes afraid I'll kill someone. I can really paint a wall with a roller. She has to brush in the trim etc. Happy new yr CC |
Gerald Ross
Member From: Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
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posted 01 January 2005 08:09 AM
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Post some pictures Ed!------------------
Gerald Ross
'Northwest Ann Arbor, Michigan's King Of The Hawaiian Steel Guitar'
Gerald's Fingerstyle Guitar Website
[This message was edited by Gerald Ross on 01 January 2005 at 08:09 AM.] |
Ed Naylor
Member From: portsmouth.ohio usa
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posted 01 January 2005 08:29 AM
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Gerald- I am not set up to post pics. Maybe I can send one to you. Ed |
Mike Simpson
Member From: Gilbert, Arizona, USA
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posted 01 January 2005 09:32 AM
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Rick,
Is there any way around the expensive moulding die? Could there be another similar polymer that could just be moulded.I was told that the National dies were lost long ago and it would cost 100k to 250k to replace them and NRP said that german silver could not work and they refused to build me one as a custom order... so I built one. It took me a year. Terry,
Thanks, German silver has a quality somewhere between yellow brass and steel. It has a little more attack than yellow brass and is more mellow than steel. I can try to put together a new soundbite with some single string notes, the only one that I have on the internet right now is the tricone on rhythm and Mike D's Weissonator on lead. It is where we were just messin around, I have probably posted this here somewhere before.
Open Sea Blues Ed,
I would be very interested in what mixture and process you used or where you found reference information. You can email me if you don't want to post it. Also if you have a Pic you can email me I can post it for you. ------------------
Big Mike
http://www.blueswizards.net |
Ed Naylor
Member From: portsmouth.ohio usa
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posted 01 January 2005 10:39 AM
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Mike- I didn't MAKE the Bakelite, I got it from another source. I also use a "FIBERGLASS" type material that I used to build Steels years ago. I feel there are other factors that create sound ,such as Pickups,pickup placement and the sound will vary with the kinds of wood, etc.Ed |
Rick Aiello
Member From: Berryville, VA USA
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posted 01 January 2005 10:43 AM
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There are lots of "Linen Phenolic" materials that are made with phenol-formaldehyde (bakelite) and its relatives ... impregnating cloth or synthetic fibers.Linen Phenolics As far as doin' it like Rickenbacher ... a highly polished (interior) steel mold is needed for the kinda pressure and temperature needed to "set" a thermoset ... Heres a few links ... kinda give you an idea whats involved. Compression molding Molding Molds ------------------
Aiello's House of Gauss
My wife and I don't think alike. She donates money to the homeless and I donate money to the topless! ... R. Dangerfield
[This message was edited by Rick Aiello on 01 January 2005 at 10:44 AM.]
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Jon Light
Member From: Brooklyn, NY
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posted 01 January 2005 11:34 AM
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some semi-relevant reading:
http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum2/HTML/001373.html |
Rick Collins
Member From: Claremont , CA USA
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posted 01 January 2005 11:59 AM
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I don't know for sure; but it seems DuPont Corian would be a good material for experimentation for a steel guitar body.[This message was edited by Rick Collins on 02 January 2005 at 02:51 PM.] |
Mike D
Member From: Phx, Az
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posted 01 January 2005 12:02 PM
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You're mad Simpson, MAD I tell ya! Now quit thinking about lapsteels and go make a neck for that Triolian.  ------------------
Half-assed bottleneck and lap slide player. Full-assed Builder of resonator instruments.
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Mike Simpson
Member From: Gilbert, Arizona, USA
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posted 01 January 2005 12:13 PM
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But Weissonatorman the neck on the Triolian was BakeliteNothin' incites blind determination like being told something won't work or can't be done.... I know a guy that made a single cone guitar out of galvanized steel... and some people thought it wouldn't work... ------------------
Big Mike http://www.blueswizards.net [This message was edited by Mike Simpson on 01 January 2005 at 12:14 PM.]
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Mike Simpson
Member From: Gilbert, Arizona, USA
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posted 01 January 2005 12:28 PM
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Interesting...
quote:
Back in 2000 Bob stone posed the question.....could make a Bakelite lap steel body from a solid block of the stuff, or a very rough shape, using ordinary power and hand tools. It seems like it wouldn't be any more difficult than working hardwood, for example, once one becomes familiar the material properties. Can such a hunk of Bakelite be purchased?
This website Rick posted previously seems to imply that big pieces or sheets could be purchased... and that it is machinable...
http://www.precisionpunch.com/webpage.cfm?page_id=2#PHENOLIC PHENOLIC LAMINATES (Micarta®, Bakelite® )
CHARACTERISTICS: Thermosetting resin & reinforcing matrix. Resins available are phenolic, epoxy, melamines, silicone, polyester, & teflon. Reinforcing materials are glass, cotton, & paper. These reinforcing materials provide omni-directional strength. Good dielectric strength, dimensional stability, machinability, & chemical resistance.
SHEET THICKNESS: .002'' through 4''.
SHEET SIZES: 36'' x48'', 39'' x48'', 36'' x72'', 48'' x96''.
ROD DIAMETERS: 1/16'' through 4''.
Sheet, Rod, Film and Tube available.
GLASS BASED: FR-4 Glass Epoxy. G-11, G-5, G-9 Melamine, G-7 Silicone.
COTTON BASED: LE Linen Phenolic. / CE Canvas Phenolic. The previous discussion was interesting in that it precedes the Aiello / Lollar conquest of the reproduction and subsequent improvement of the horse shoe pickup design... It is sometimes surprising what can be accomplished in a year of late nights in the garage with a bandsaw, a belt sander, a drill press, a dremel tool and enough blind determination fueled by strong coffee...lots of it... Would a carbon fiber / epoxy mouled body be sonically inferior to Bakelite if it contained sufficient mass and "tone chambers"?? How were so many cups, bowls, earrings lampshades, radio housings, distributor caps and more all made of... Bakelite? ------------------
Big Mike http://www.blueswizards.net [This message was edited by Mike Simpson on 01 January 2005 at 12:36 PM.]
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Rick Aiello
Member From: Berryville, VA USA
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posted 01 January 2005 12:30 PM
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Sure it can be done. I don't see anyone here sayin' it can't be ... I was just sharin' my previous research into doing it as it was originally done ... To quote John Hall ... quote:
But you also have to remember Adolf Rickenbacker was a very talented engineer. He's often credited as being a father of injection molding of plastic. He worked with Dr. Baekeland who developed bakelite. Dr. Baekeland had this material and basically they were molding it the way you would mold clay pottery and things like that. It was Adolf Rickenbacker that came up with the concept of using pressure, heat, and a in particular, a mold that would split into two pieces so that the bakelite could be injected into the mold. Then the mold was popped open and the part would fall out. Well that was a very, very powerful technology at that time, and that was absolutely Adolf's invention.
...
Just takes $$$$ ...
Happy New Year ------------------
Aiello's House of Gauss
My wife and I don't think alike. She donates money to the homeless and I donate money to the topless! ... R. Dangerfield
[This message was edited by Rick Aiello on 01 January 2005 at 09:44 PM.]
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Rick Aiello
Member From: Berryville, VA USA
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posted 01 January 2005 01:11 PM
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quote:
How were so many cups, bowls, earrings lampshades, radio housings, distributor caps and more all made of... Bakelite?
Molds
[This message was edited by Rick Aiello on 01 January 2005 at 01:17 PM.] |
Jon Light
Member From: Brooklyn, NY
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posted 01 January 2005 01:25 PM
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quote:
How were so many cups, bowls, earrings lampshades, radio housings, distributor caps and more all made of... Bakelite?
Don't forget stovetop coffee pot handles. I love the smell of burning bakelite in the morning. Smells like......a Ric..... |
Mike D
Member From: Phx, Az
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posted 01 January 2005 01:40 PM
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But Weissonatorman the neck on the Triolian was BakeliteOh yeah, I forgot. Carry on then. Nothin' incites blind determination like being told something won't work or can't be done.... I know a guy that made a single cone guitar out of galvanized steel... and some people thought it wouldn't work... Hmm, sounds like a suspicious character, I'd be leery of him. ------------------
Half-assed bottleneck and lap slide player. Full-assed Builder of resonator instruments.
[This message was edited by Mike D on 01 January 2005 at 01:41 PM.] |
Gerald Ross
Member From: Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
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posted 01 January 2005 02:04 PM
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Don't forget those big black heavy telephones in your grandmother's house... Bakelite.------------------
Gerald Ross
'Northwest Ann Arbor, Michigan's King Of The Hawaiian Steel Guitar'
Gerald's Fingerstyle Guitar Website
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Jussi Huhtakangas
Member From: Helsinki, Finland
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posted 02 January 2005 02:31 AM
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Years ago I went to my local vintage guitar store and they had just received a bakelite Rick. The guy at the store raved about it and said he loves the smell of it; just like his grandma's old telephone. I wonder if one day my grandkids will buy a plastic Maccaferri and and get a kick because it smells like granddad's old cellphone ( how not cool!!! )
Isn't it weird how in today's rich and wealthy world it's often said it's too costly and expensive to produce things and materials, that were everyday household things just a few decades ago. |
Dave Boothroyd
Member From: The Malvern Hills
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posted 02 January 2005 02:57 AM
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Somewhere in my library, I have a kids chemistry book that has a recipe for making Bakelite.
(I remember making nitrocellulose from the book but I never did Bakelite! Shows what sort of kid I was, I suppose)
It doesn't help with the moulding, but if you want the formula, I'll look it up.------------------
Cheers!
Dave |
Mike Simpson
Member From: Gilbert, Arizona, USA
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posted 02 January 2005 10:03 AM
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Dave,
If you can find it I would be interested to see what amounts it says to mix and how... A kids chemistry book would be right at my level (my wife says I'm a big kid sometimes...)The stuff I find on the web is usually a general description like this
quote:
Bakelite is a condensation polymer of formaldehyde and phenol. In practice, the phenol and formaldehyde are first polymerized to a small extent by using the proper choice of catalyst and temperature. The resulting prepolymer, called a resol, is a low-melting, soluble material, which can then be combined with a filler (usually cotton linters or wood fibers) and a pigment and heated under pressure in a mold to yield an object of the desired shape.
But I did find this college chemistry experiment...
quote:
In a 25-mL round-bottomed flask place 3.0 g of phenol and 10 mL of 37% by weight aqueous formaldehyde solution. The formaldehyde solution contains 10-15% methanol, which has been added as a stabilizer to prevent the polymerization of formaldehyde. Add 1.5 mL of concentrated ammonium hydroxide to the solution and reflux it for 5 min beyond the point at which the solution turns cloudy, a total reflux time of about 10 min. In the hood pour the warm solution into a disposable test tube and draw off the upper layer. Immediately clean the flask with a small amount of acetone. Warm the viscous milky lower layer on the steam bath and add acetic acid dropwise with thorough mixing until the layer is clear, even when the polymer is cooled to room temperature. Heat the tube on a water bath at 60-65°C for 30 min. Then, after placing a wood stick in the polymer to use as a handle, leave the tube in an 85°C oven overnight. To free the polymer the tube may need to be broken.
I "assume" that "reflux" means to mix, shake or stir? "In the hood pour the warm solution"
Am I going to have to do this in south Phoenix? ("In the hood") looks like I need...
3.0 g of phenol
10 mL of aqueous formaldehyde solution
1.5 mL of concentrated ammonium hydroxide
"add acetic acid dropwise" (this is unclear) Some sort of form (they used a disposable test tube) The wife's oven... They make no mention of adding fibrous filler but this experiment is to show the polymerization process. Perhaps I can initially endeavor to make a knob, a nut or a bridge insert. Additionally there may need to be some sort of mold reelease compound (they just break the test tube) ------------------
Big Mike http://www.blueswizards.net [This message was edited by Mike Simpson on 02 January 2005 at 10:04 AM.]
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Bill Creller
Member From: Saginaw, Michigan, USA
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posted 02 January 2005 11:53 AM
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The phenolic material I'm familiar with has a trade name of Micarta, and is used for many products, like aircraft control system pulleys, insulators etc. That type of phenolic would not be suitable at all for a guitar. It is a light brown color, with the cloth re-inforcing fabric showing through the surface. I have made some items with it, and found that it doesn't have the density of real bakelite at all. |
Rick Aiello
Member From: Berryville, VA USA
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posted 02 January 2005 01:04 PM
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Synthesis of phenol-formaldehyde is a classic second semester Organic Chemistry II lab in college.The reactants have been banned in most public high schools for years (I usta do it as a demo ... way back when) .. A couple issues to be concerned with are the toxic properties of Phenol (hydroxybenzene) and Formaldehyde (methyl aldehyde). Phenol MSDS Formaldehyde MSDS. Refluxing is a procedure ... very common in organic chemistry ... that involves an open ended condensing tube fixed to the reaction flask. Because some organic reactions require high heat (past the boiling points of the reactants) ... a system must be in place that allows the reacatants to vaporize ... rise ... and then condense against the cool pyrex. The liquid then falls back into the reaction flask .... yada, yada . Some refluxe procedures need to be carried out for hours. We would always get some dedicated lab partner to watch ours ... as we went out to the van ... for alittle reflux relief . ------------------
Aiello's House of Gauss
My wife and I don't think alike. She donates money to the homeless and I donate money to the topless! ... R. Dangerfield
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Donald Ruetenik
Member From: Pleasant Hill, California, USA
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posted 02 January 2005 06:08 PM
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I use a lot of Micarta in my other hobby. Both Linen and paper based. I'm kinda with Bob Creller on this as far as the linen based Micarta is concerned. However, the paper based Micarta might be a better candidate for a musical instrument. Milling, glueing and polishing to a high lustre is easy enough. |
Denny Turner
Member From: Northshore Oahu, Hawaii USA
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posted 03 January 2005 05:05 AM
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I have heard several opinions that the walnut filler in Rickenbacher's Bakelite formula contributed to the sound of the Bakelite Steels. Only experimenting would tell if linen or paper filled Phenolic would have similar / equal sound properties. Businesses that specialize in military surplus / salvage would be good resources to contact and have look for a machineable block of Phenolic.With the advent of highly reliable composites in such general-public fields as homebuit aircraft; I'd imagine / surmise / SWAG that there are other composites that might have good sound/audio qualities, and not need high pressures to mold, ...if someone were to be able to research sound qualities of composites. I'd imagine that the people who have mass-produced guitars from plastics and composites would have some database of such research. Aloha,
DT~
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Mike Simpson
Member From: Gilbert, Arizona, USA
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posted 03 January 2005 01:59 PM
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Well I called on a block of Bakelite and for a piece 36" x 12" x 2" I was quoted $476.00
Just a rough estimate in size to get enough to work with, I will make some more measurements and see if a smaller piece is any less expensive...
maybe 24"x10"x2" would be enough, I will get out my Silver Hawaiian and make some measurements tonight...
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Big Mike
http://www.blueswizards.net |
Mike Ruffin
Member From: El Paso, Texas, USA
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posted 03 January 2005 02:19 PM
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The most common sheet size for phenolic sheets is 36"x48". It is available in paper, linen and cotton base. The natural color is brown. Black is usually easy to find, especially in paper. There is a decorative phenolic that knife makers use for handles that comes in different colored laminations. Phenolic is very hard on tools and care should be taken not to breathe the dust. It is very nasty. Phenolic can usually be found at plastic distributors such as Cadillac Plastics. Look in the yellow pages under plastics, sheets rods and tubes.
I hope this helps.
Mike
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Ron Castle
Member From: West Hurley,NY
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posted 03 January 2005 02:55 PM
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Quite a bit of Bakelite is manufactured in India, and I would think that the price would be acceptable altho shipping would hurt.
I did some research a while back and there is a company that makes a cocoanut shell as filler Phenolic, may be as good as walnut shell.
Of course as noted above- milling Bakelite would be extremely hazardous and you'ld have to get rid of the waste (powder) too. |
Mike D
Member From: Phx, Az
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posted 03 January 2005 04:40 PM
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there is a company that makes a cocoanut shell as filler PhenolicPerfect for that Hawaiian sound!  ------------------
Half-assed bottleneck and lap slide player. Full-assed Builder of resonator instruments.
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Gerald Ross
Member From: Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
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posted 04 January 2005 07:32 AM
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Corian!I still believe this may be the new Bakelite. ------------------
Gerald Ross
'Northwest Ann Arbor, Michigan's King Of The Hawaiian Steel Guitar'
Gerald's Fingerstyle Guitar Website
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Dave Boothroyd
Member From: The Malvern Hills
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posted 06 January 2005 09:46 AM
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Well, I found my book, so here goes:-
You can make Bakelite.
An important product of polymerization is Bakelite, a synthetic resin that is made by reacting phenol with formaldehyde. During the reaction, a water-thin, water-clear, highly reactive solution is transformed into a ruby-red, glassy solid that will withstand heat and the effects of most chemicals. If you have a condenser, and running water to cool it, you can demonstrate this wonder in your own lab.
Make your starting solution by dissolving 38 g. of phenol (carbolic acid) in 75 ml. of 40 per cent formaldehyde solution. (Be careful not to spill the phenol on your hands, for it is caustic and poisonous. If you should accidentally spill it, wash it off immediately with plenty of water. Next add about 5 ml. of a 40 per cent sodium hydroxide solution to act as a catalyst.
Carefully pour this combined solution into a 300-ml. boiling flask, put a wire-gauze square under the flask, and mount it on a ring stand. If you own one, connect a reflux condenser to the mouth of the flask through a one-hole stopper as shown on page 104. If you lack one of these, an ordinary condenser can be substituted. This arrangement allows steam to escape but returns substances with a higher boiling-point to the solution. Connect the jacket of the condenser so that water flows in at the bottom and out at the top.The solution thickens and colours as it boils. Now start the solution boiling gently. The total boiling time necessary will probably exceed one hour, but take a look at the flask every few minutes to observe the strange change that takes place.
If your phenol is absolutely pure, the solution at the beginning will look like water. If it is impure, the solution will have a pinkish tinge. In either case, as the boiling continues, the solution turns a light amber, gradually becoming darker and darker with a trend towards red. The solution also gradually thickens.
Because of differences in conditions of boiling, the time required to complete the reaction cannot be accurately predicted, but must be judged by observation. Keep a constant watch after boiling has continued for about fifty minutes. As soon as the solution thickens to the approximate consistency of treacle, turn off the flame, remove the condenser, and quickly pour the solution into a mould. (Be sure to turn off the flame as the first step, for the vapours from the flask are inflammable.) Do not allow the solution to boil beyond the point indicated or it will solidify in the flask. As soon as the flask has been emptied, clean it with a brush and a strong solution of Calgon or caustic soda.Baking completes the transformation. The cover from a large tin can may be used as a mould. If you allow the solution to cool at this point, however, you will discover that you have a resinous substance that melts again on slight heating and dissolves in many organic compounds. To complete the process of polymerization, you must bake the resin several hours at a moderate temperature.
This can be done by putting the mould, with the solution in it, on an asbestos mat and suspending over it a 100-watt bulb in a photographic reflector. A thermometer supported directly over the mould will indicate the approximate temperature. For the first hour, adjust the temperature to about 500 C., then raise it to 750 for the following 2 1/2 hours. When the polymerization is completed, the substance will be a deep red.
During your cooling, your Bakelite will shrink and may crack because of internal strains, but it will come out of the mould a shiny, brittle, glass-like disc of ruby red.
To prevent subsequent shrinking, commercial Bakelite is moulded and baked under high pressure. A filler such as clay, asbestos powder, or wood dust often is mixed with it to reduce its cost, and pigment may be added to give it a colour other than red. Hope this helps. You migh need a little more than this to make a Ric!
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Cheers!
Dave
PS There's a walnut tree just outside my window, so if you need any shells...........
D [This message was edited by Dave Boothroyd on 06 January 2005 at 09:48 AM.] [This message was edited by Dave Boothroyd on 06 January 2005 at 09:49 AM.] [This message was edited by Dave Boothroyd on 06 January 2005 at 09:51 AM.] |
Mike Simpson
Member From: Gilbert, Arizona, USA
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posted 07 January 2005 07:18 AM
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Thanks Dave! quote:
If you own one, connect a reflux condenser to the mouth of the flask through a one-hole stopper as shown on page 104. If you lack one of these, an ordinary condenser can be substituted
Here is a couple of reflux condensers on ebay... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=26405&item=3864869701&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=26405&item=3865761107&rd=1&ssPageName=WD1V I beleive I now understand the basic process. I just need a reflux condenser and a few hazardous materials. Does anyone know at what point the filler material (walnut shells) is added? I assume they are added after the reflux procedure and before the solution cools to "resinous substance that melts again on slight heating" or else it could be reheated to add the filler. Does the mould need to be made from steel or aluminum? or possibly another material? Would a bunch of C-clamps serve the purpose of applying the pressure to the mold? Things that make you go hmm ?
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Big Mike
http://www.blueswizards.net |
Dave Boothroyd
Member From: The Malvern Hills
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posted 08 January 2005 02:26 AM
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I've never done this, so I'm only guessing, but if the baking temperature has to go to 750 C, you would not have a problem with aluminium as a mould.
It's the pressure I'm not sure about. If the commercial manufacturers used 500 ton presses, then you'd need a riser miles high to get anything near that without a pressure pump of some kind.
I presume you'd need a mould that had a piston device attached- and use a press to push the piston- holding the temperature all the time.
I'd definitely make up the resin in batches though, and remelt and add filler afterwards. I don't like the idea of two gallons of napalm boiling over a flame! ------------------
Cheers!
Dave |
Rick Aiello
Member From: Berryville, VA USA
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posted 08 January 2005 08:30 AM
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Mike ... my opinion is ... Leave the synthesis to organic chemisty students as part of their curriculum Making the actual polymer ... would be synonymous to me alloying my own metal. You can get "ready mix" ... the powder that the industrial places use ... real cheap ... I'll look for a source. [This message was edited by Rick Aiello on 08 January 2005 at 09:13 AM.]
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Rick Aiello
Member From: Berryville, VA USA
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posted 08 January 2005 08:52 AM
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Mike ... quote:
Its not the bakelite itself that has kept "do-gooders" away ... its the price of the steel injection mold.
Bakelite ... 5 lbs @ $32.97 ... Work on the mold ... molding process ... ------------------
Aiello's House of Gauss
My wife and I don't think alike. She donates money to the homeless and I donate money to the topless! ... R. Dangerfield
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Mike Simpson
Member From: Gilbert, Arizona, USA
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posted 08 January 2005 09:43 AM
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Rick,
I had found mounting bakelite mounting powders on some other sites related to metalurgy but I was unsure if this was the correct product to use. Somehow from other descriptions of the process I had envisioned a pourable substance or a "preform" (a big plug of a measured amount) that was used. If the powdered mounting compuond will work I will skip the chemistry lesson (although it has been educational) and press on (pardon the pun) to the molding process.Thanks for all of your help and suggestions. I will order some of the "Bakelite™ Powder for Thermoset Mounting" and try to make something little first. You could alloy your own metal...I'm thinking... Aiellominum ------------------
Big Mike http://www.blueswizards.net [This message was edited by Mike Simpson on 08 January 2005 at 09:47 AM.]
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Rick Aiello
Member From: Berryville, VA USA
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posted 08 January 2005 10:15 AM
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Yep ... thats basically "The Charge" they use ... From one of the industrial sites ... quote:
Plastic molding powder, mixed with such materials or fillers as woodflour and cellulose to strengthen or give other added qualities to the finished product, is put directly into the open mold cavity. The mold is then closed, pressing down on the plastic and causing it to flow throughout the mold. It is while the heated mold is closed that the thermosetting material undergoes a chemical change which permanently hardens it into the shape of the mold.
Grizzly has a nice Hydrolic press ...The mold is the "trick" ... Good luck ... I have a pickup waitin' [This message was edited by Rick Aiello on 08 January 2005 at 10:16 AM.]
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