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Author
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Topic: Jules Ah See's Magnatone Triple Eight ?
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basilh
Member From: United Kingdom
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posted 16 February 2005 08:46 PM
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Is this a similar guitar to the one he played ? ........
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=3781964534 Baz ------------------
quote:
Steel players do it without fretting
 
http://www.waikiki-islanders.com |
Rick Alexander
Member From: Florida, USA
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posted 16 February 2005 09:08 PM
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I'm not sure about that Baz, but considering the way it was listed it looks like you'll probably get it. Unless some hotshot sees this thread and snipes it at the last minute . .
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George Keoki Lake
Member From: Edmonton, AB., Canada
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posted 16 February 2005 09:12 PM
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Baz...to the best of my knowledge, Jules Ah See did not play a triple 8, but a double 8 Magnatone. That guitar is now a keepsake of Alan Akaka, whom I am sure still has it. The case has Jules name boldly printed upon it. Alan played the Magnatone quite a bit in his early days about 20 years,(or less) ago. If I am correct, Magnatone back in the days of HAWAI'I CALLS gave their guitars to the steel players on that show in exchange for the statement by Webley, "Waves and the Magnatone steel guitar of ________" (the last being Alvin Kalanikau (Isaacs)...better known as Barney Isaacs). Barney was still playing his old double neck Magnatone until about 5 years prior to his passing.FYI: Back in the late forties, early fifties, I actually owned a 4 neck model identical to the three neck shown on eBay. Stupidly, I sold it due to its' heavy weight ! I wish now I had kept it if only as a momento.  [This message was edited by George Keoki Lake on 16 February 2005 at 09:13 PM.] |
basilh
Member From: United Kingdom
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posted 16 February 2005 09:16 PM
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Well Rick, I thought it was an interesting item...looks identical to the one that Jules is pictured with in the "Hawaii Calls" photos...I figure Jeff Au Hoy would probably know..If he's lurking ?
Baz |
basilh
Member From: United Kingdom
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posted 16 February 2005 09:18 PM
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Thanks George .. I was hoping the it would have the "Hawai'i Calls" era sound !!!
Baz[This message was edited by basilh on 16 February 2005 at 09:20 PM.] |
George Keoki Lake
Member From: Edmonton, AB., Canada
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posted 16 February 2005 10:08 PM
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Personally, I loved the sound of my old MAGNATONE...many steel players would disagree. Barney had a distinctive tone on his MAGNATONE as did Jules. My 4 neck MAGNATONE, as I previously mentioned, was a heavy critter especially when you included the case and 4 chrome legs. Like the one shown on eBay, MAGNATONES appeared as though they were built as individual single neck models and they just kept attaching one neck to another depending on how many necks you desired...at least, that's the way they struck me. Each neck was a complete guitar with its' own volume and tone control and duo pickups which by FENDER standards, (or most any other name brand) was somewhat unusual. |
basilh
Member From: United Kingdom
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posted 16 February 2005 10:13 PM
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Well George.. now I've got it I should start planning what tunings to use..maybe B11 - E13 - C6..
What do you think ?
Which one on which neck ? |
Rick Alexander
Member From: Florida, USA
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posted 16 February 2005 10:19 PM
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Congratulations Baz! It looks like a goodie. [This message was edited by Rick Alexander on 17 February 2005 at 02:56 AM.] |
George Keoki Lake
Member From: Edmonton, AB., Canada
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posted 16 February 2005 10:44 PM
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BAZ...those are the tunings I use on my triple FENDER. However, instead of C6th, I tune it half tone lower to B6th. This puts the C position on the first fret. Songs like "Steelin' the Blues" end up in the key of Db when the C6th tuning is used, whereas with B6th, you are in the key of C...ever had a problem with a rhythm man who cannot play in Db ? I have ! I have E9th as my closest, and preferred neck with B6th in the middle and B11th on the far neck. Just in passing, some might say that Barney didn't always play a MAGNATONE on "Hawai'i Calls", and they would be correct. I have a pic of him playing a triple STRINGMASTER along side of Danny Stewart who was also playing the identical guitar. I have never seen Barney playing a FENDER in person, (except a borrowed one at the Winchester AISGC convention), however I certainly saw him playing the old MAGNATONE on Hawai'i Calls and on gigs at the Halekulani, et al, many times. |
David L. Donald
Member From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand
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posted 17 February 2005 12:20 AM
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Man, what a nice deal, you should love this baby.
Ane even more so if it is a historically interesting piece too. |
c c johnson
Member From: killeen,tx usa
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posted 17 February 2005 04:15 AM
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Baz, I saw Jules several timesin Hawaii and he always played the dbl neck Mag. I have pictures of him setting behind a multichord with a band but These may be a publicity shot as is one of Herb Remington on an early Hilltop album behind a fender 800 which Herby never played. CC |
Jay Fagerlie
Member From: Lotus, California, USA
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posted 17 February 2005 06:37 AM
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Great guitar Basilh
I have one just like it. Mine is a 1955.
The model is "Maestro"
I have mine tuned A6/C6/E13 near to far.
Be forwarned-56 lbs in the case!Jay
PS You can click the link in my signature below to see a picture of it.
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J.L. Fagerlie - email: jayster@scaryoak.com - website -
1980's Dekley SD12 Ext. E9th,
1963 Fender 1000, 1955 Magnatone Maestro T-8, 1947 National Grand Console D-8 ,1948 Gibson BR-9,‘60’s Melobar Acoustic
[This message was edited by Jay Fagerlie on 17 February 2005 at 06:39 AM.]
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Ron Whitfield
Member From: Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA
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posted 17 February 2005 12:59 PM
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Alan indeed owns one of Jules' Magnatone steels (given to him by Benny Kalama, Mr. Hawaiian music), of which Jules had over time at least 3, and some times all on stage together with him, his all-star bandmates and the great Alfred Apaka.Ever see him on one of those nites CC?
I feel fortunate to have seen at least a picture of that. The Jules/Mag Alan has is the same late '50s, but dbl. neck version (Lyric?) of what Baz has his sights on, and sounds fine in his hands. |
Ian McLatchie
Member From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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posted 17 February 2005 01:12 PM
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You've done well, Baz! That's a whole bunch of guitar for six hundred bucks. Coincidentally, the same instrument was in a Toronto music store recently, the first I've seen in several years. These instruments are underappreciated and undervalued simply because most people never have the chance to play one. Those twin Magnatone pickups have a very distinctive tone, and the overall playability of the instrument is excellent. You'll have a great time with this one - money well spent![This message was edited by Ian McLatchie on 17 February 2005 at 01:13 PM.] |
Pete Burak
Member From: Portland, OR USA
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posted 17 February 2005 01:12 PM
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I wonder if this is the same one that has been in Trade Up Music here in Portland for a while? (I see the seller was from Portland).
I put the same model axe through it's paces with a matching Magnatone amp at that store a few weeks ago.
They had it listed at $650.
Nice Axe!!! (I can see if it's still there if anyone is interested).
Alas, it wasn't on my "must have" radar.
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c c johnson
Member From: killeen,tx usa
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posted 17 February 2005 01:59 PM
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Ron, I know I saw him twice w/Apaka but I can't remember where. CC |
basilh
Member From: United Kingdom
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posted 17 February 2005 04:04 PM
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The way I approached this purchase was a Little mercenary..I figured that the 24 Kluson De-luxe with nickle buttons, four adjustable legs and sockets, six eight string pick-ups and the rest of the guitar , were worth that money, just as parts...Not for one moment am I suggesting that I break it up, but that's how I calculated the value...I quite surprised that I won it so easily.. especially as I spotlighted it BEFORE the auction was over..!!
I'm going to get the guitar re-finished -professionally here in the UK..BTW the Carriage is $96..
And then there's duty and the dreaded VAT..
The UK customs charge VAT AFTER the carriage is added to the total ...So the carriage is really about $115..All I need now is for someone to let me know where to get a FSK at a "Nice" price !![This message was edited by basilh on 17 February 2005 at 04:05 PM.] |
Jeff Au Hoy
Member From: Honolulu, Hawai'i
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posted 17 February 2005 08:37 PM
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Hi Baz,The model you bought is the exact model I recently purchased from forumite Michael Lee Allen in Illinois (fantastic musician with a wealth of knowledge). I'm indebted to Mary and Bill Creller who drove me what seemed like 200 miles just to pick it up during the HSGA convention. The instrument has awesome tone for the Hawaiian stuff I like to do. You can definitely get the Jules Ah See Hawaiian Village Serenaders radio transcription sound. Ear splitting highs if you like... muddy warmth too if you prefer. The long scale feels like a grand piano. It has a different control setup though... no separate blend control on the pickups like the Stringmaster. However, the tone knob has a double function... it tapers highs and the neck pickup. The case (I have the same one also) is next to worthless. The handle is likely to rip right off. If that doesn't happen, the guitar is likely to burst thru the bottom.
(notice he's got 2 doubleneck Magnatones up there on stage... I'm sure one of them must've been tuned C6/A7  )
[This message was edited by Jeff Au Hoy on 18 February 2005 at 01:31 AM.]
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Jay Jessup
Member From: Charlottesville, VA, USA
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posted 18 February 2005 10:15 AM
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Very interesting, looks almost like three single eight string steels screwed to a mahogany board with cutouts for each steel. Is it really made that way or is it just that it seems that way in the pictures? |
Rick Aiello
Member From: Berryville, VA USA
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posted 18 February 2005 10:39 AM
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Michael Lee Allen ... thats where you went that day ...  What a cool guy ... I got a Frypan Stand from him ... just like the one Billy Hew Len had ... And he then proceeded to ship me three boxes full of vintage Hawaiian records. Sorry ... to get back on topic ... here's mine  Bought it in Lake Worth, FL ... in 1989 ... $125 ------------------
Aiello's House of Gauss
My wife and I don't think alike. She donates money to the homeless and I donate money to the topless! ... R. Dangerfield
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basilh
Member From: United Kingdom
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posted 18 February 2005 11:14 AM
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I think he played a Magnatone on this tune... http://www.waikiki-islanders.com/assets/multimedia/mp3/juleslive/julesand.mp3 This is him DEFINITELY on a Magnatone LIVE at the Tapa Room..(Beware, this file is quite large,(30Mb) so "right click save as", would be the best way.. http://www.waikiki-islanders.com/assets/multimedia/mp3/juleslive/taparoomlive.mp3 Who is this player ?
http://www.waikiki-islanders.com/assets/multimedia/mp3/juleslive/pualive1973.mp3
http://www.waikiki-islanders.com/assets/multimedia/mp3/juleslive/hoehoe.mp3
http://www.waikiki-islanders.com/assets/multimedia/mp3/juleslive/chickadee.mp3 I just included them for the Steel Enthusiasts Pleasure...
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Gerald Ross
Member From: Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
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posted 18 February 2005 12:05 PM
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WoW Baz!Thanks for the Tapa Room Live mp3. What a party! Listen to all those styles played incredibly well! What was the tune Pua Almeida was playing on the PuaLive mp3? Any idea on his tuning on that one? ------------------
Gerald Ross
'Northwest Ann Arbor, Michigan's King Of The Hawaiian Steel Guitar'
Gerald's Fingerstyle Guitar Website
Board of Directors Hawaiian Steel Guitar Association
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basilh
Member From: United Kingdom
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posted 18 February 2005 12:44 PM
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Hi Ger.. glad you like the stuff..The tune Pua Almeida is playing is called Anytime, Anywhere, from a "Live" 1973 Steel Guitar Concert..Chickadee has Pua singing, Billy Hew Len playing back-up steel and then... Pua takes off with a sizzling steel solo. This is from a Waikiki LP Hoe Hoe is Pua talking a dedication to his friend in Japan Mishima Toshio, then singing and playing..From a Japanese LP.. Pua's playing at the LIVE concert has shades of Speedy West, Murphy, Alvino, and some very original single string solo work..
A VERY underrated Player..
[This message was edited by basilh on 18 February 2005 at 12:46 PM.] |
George Keoki Lake
Member From: Edmonton, AB., Canada
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posted 18 February 2005 01:27 PM
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FYI: Pua died in 1973 probably shortly after this recording was made. Such a sad loss. Not only was he a great (and as Baz mentioned "under-rated) steel player, he had a beautiful voice with the relaxed phrasing I would compare with
Alfred Apaka "anytime, anywhere" ! I don't know which steel he is playing here, all I know is when I first met him in 1970 while he was playing at the MOANA Banyan Courtyard with his 5 piece group, he was playing two single neck Ric frypans built into a regular case with chrome legs attached. [This message was edited by George Keoki Lake on 18 February 2005 at 01:29 PM.] |
Jeff Au Hoy
Member From: Honolulu, Hawai'i
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posted 18 February 2005 02:01 PM
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Holy garbanzo beans that Pua stuff sure is glitzy. What a bunch of jazzophiles. If that doesn't sound like a Las Vegas Hawaiian floor show, Idunno what does. A treat to hear, thanks Baz. By the way, I don't think you could get away singing anywhere in Hawai'i nowadays like Pua did without getting a tomato thrown at you. I guess the transformation of "Danke Schoen" into "Dankah Shayne" can be done in Hawaiian as well. There's always been some classy thing about anglocizing "foreign" words. |
Jeff Au Hoy
Member From: Honolulu, Hawai'i
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posted 18 February 2005 02:26 PM
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At around 22:14 in the sample of Jules that Baz provided, you can hear usage of the Cmaj7 tuning. KCCN radio used Jules' vamp in this tuning on their call sign for many years.Interesting stuff, you can hear some lydian harmonies being used too. "'Imi Au Ia 'Oe" beginning at 26:00 almost made me cry.[This message was edited by Jeff Au Hoy on 18 February 2005 at 02:33 PM.] |
basilh
Member From: United Kingdom
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posted 18 February 2005 02:49 PM
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Not only great playing, but what about Pua's TONE..?
Full bodied but with an edge and instant attack..
not the sort of sound you can get from the type of pick-up placement on the Can-o-puss ... OR the new Remington that Rick Alexander has..where the pick-up is placed (IMHO) much too far from the bridge..
What think you Jeff ? |
Mark Durante
Member From: Illinois
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posted 18 February 2005 04:10 PM
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Cool Mp3s.
I would reconsider the refinishing if I were you, you can't replace an original finish and the monetary worth will plummet. |
Jeff Au Hoy
Member From: Honolulu, Hawai'i
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posted 18 February 2005 04:18 PM
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Yes, but Baz is a musician who will play the thing and not a collector.Baz, I love the frypan tone... there's nothing that will cut quite like it. The Canopus definitely can't do it. Rick Aiello's dustpans can! For single note work I always gravitate back to the frypan. I just noticed that Pua actually scats behind his solo in Chickadee. I reiterate... what a bunch of jazzophiles. I'll bet he had sunglasses on in the studio at 10:00 pm too. |
Mark Durante
Member From: Illinois
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posted 19 February 2005 03:52 AM
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Will refinishing make it play better? |
Don Kona Woods
Member From: Vancouver, Washington, USA
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posted 20 February 2005 03:10 PM
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Baz,
You made my day. Just hearing Jules Ah See playing Sand took me to steel guitar heaven for a short time. Before moving to the mainland in August 1974, I lived in Waikiki. I had sold my house and wanted to stay a few months in Waikiki before leaving for the Mainland (temporary insanity), just to experience life there in transition. I heard Pua Almeida, Billy Hew Len play quite a bit. It seemed their styles were similar and they did play a lot of jazz. In the 60’s I heard Barney Isaacs and Mel Abe play, in their more soft, sweet style, then came Jerry Byrd playing in the Blue Dolphin room in 1974. I was amazed at his smoothness, but it did have a tad of country in it. But the steel guitarist that has always amazed me with that Hawaiian steel sound I like best is Jules. So thanks again Baz. One of the places I frequently visited was the Moana Banyan Tree courtyard. There, Pua Almeida was playing his steel and singing with his group. What I saw appeared to be a D-4 Fender String Master. What caught my attention was the very pronounced way that the instrument was slanted .... forward and downward at an extreme angle. I had never seen anyone slant an instrument in that extreme position before so it caught my attention. Nor have I seen anyone since, so it evidently didn’t catch on.  It does appear to be a comfortable position because the wrists were not angled. Maybe it was a more restful position because he played a lot of steel. At the time that I saw Pua, I never saw him playing his frypans. For all Hawaiian purist, the full title of Hoe Hoe is Hoe Hoe Na Waa. Aloha,
Don
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Jeff Strouse
Member From: Jacksonville, Florida, USA
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posted 20 February 2005 06:35 PM
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THose are awesome cuts, Baz! Thanks so much for posting them...Especially the live at the Tapa Room! That style - of the Alfred Apaka show with Jules on the steel - is my favorite. Wish I could have seen them perform every night! |
basilh
Member From: United Kingdom
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posted 20 February 2005 07:08 PM
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Don.. If you like Jules take a listen to the files here .. http://www.waikiki-islanders.com/assets/multimedia/mp3/Jules-Barney-Danny%20Stewart/ and Here
http://www.waikiki-islanders.com/assets/multimedia/mp3/Authentic%20Hawaiian%20Guitar/
But try to ignore the SILLY vibes player (Yves Roche) Enjoy..
Baz BTW Of course you understand that these files are for "Educational" purposes only and are meant to be used for reference purposes !!! |
Jeff Au Hoy
Member From: Honolulu, Hawai'i
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posted 20 February 2005 08:26 PM
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Thank you, Baz for making this music accessible to all of us. In the clips I heard the steeling of Walter Wailehua, Joe Custino and female multi-instrumentalist Lovey Lui as well. |
Jeff Strouse
Member From: Jacksonville, Florida, USA
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posted 21 February 2005 09:06 AM
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I didn't know How D'Ya Do had lyrics! And of course, no one can sing it like the Hawaiian Village Serenaders! Baz, thanks again for posting it! I will treasure this performance forever. It's the exact "niche" of my favorite musical stylings...for die hard fans of this style, this performance is heaven! Mahalo, Mahalo, Mahalo!
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Don Kona Woods
Member From: Vancouver, Washington, USA
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posted 21 February 2005 11:57 AM
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FYI: JULES AH SEE
BORN: JUNE 19, 1924 DIED: JUNE 12, 1960 AGE: 36 YEARS |
Ron Simpson
Member From: Darien, Illinois, USA
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posted 21 February 2005 02:49 PM
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I just wanted to send a mahalo nui loa to Basil for sharing this great music with the forum. Jules musical style live on through his nephew Duke Ching. "The Duke" has been a real inspiration to the Hawaiian steel guitar clubs here on the mainland. |
Dan Sawyer
Member From: Studio City, California, USA
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posted 22 February 2005 02:00 AM
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Man, i love the Tapa room stuff! But i'm confused. Is that Jules Ah See or Pua playing? Whoever it is, is one of my new favorites. He has an amazing right hand. Fantastic sense of rhythm. Thanks Baz! |
basilh
Member From: United Kingdom
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posted 22 February 2005 02:49 AM
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Dan....
The Tapa Room is Jules with Alfred Apaka and his Seranaders.. http://www.waikiki-islanders.com/assets/multimedia/mp3/juleslive/taparoomlive.mp3
the other stuff is Pua..
http://www.waikiki-islanders.com/assets/multimedia/mp3/juleslive/pualive1973.mp3 http://www.waikiki-islanders.com/assets/multimedia/mp3/juleslive/hoehoe.mp3 http://www.waikiki-islanders.com/assets/multimedia/mp3/juleslive/chickadee.mp3
I thought it might save scrolling to find it if I re-posted the links..
Baz.[This message was edited by basilh on 22 February 2005 at 02:50 AM.] |
Dan Sawyer
Member From: Studio City, California, USA
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posted 22 February 2005 10:31 AM
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OK, thanks. BTW, there is a new CD out called "Drifting & Dreaming" by Felix Mendelssohn and his Hawaiian Serenaders. 26 original mono recordings 1940-1950. |
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