I guess a picture is worth a thousand words so I just wanna see if this reverse slant is executed correctly, (I just got this dunlop bar seems to make the rev. slant easier as the shubb/pearse sp1 just would be really hard to control)

here’s the before, (ain’t nuthin I can do about my gorilla hairy arms . . LOL)

ok so now I’m starting, . . . the 1st finger is starting to flip over the right side of the bar as I need it to be the back stop to keep the bar from shooting away from me, (I think I read a thread that sez it’s better to bear down with the 1st finger??? still confused about that . .), my thumb is tucking behind the bar, bent at the 1st digit to catch the left back corner of the bar and flip the whole ass end of the bar to the right.

and here’s the end result with the middle finger and thumb pinning the bar against the 1st finger

Here's the "Jerry Byrd" method ...

The key is the "Ever Present / Ever Arched" index finger.

No matter if its a straight bar position ... a forward slant ... or a reverse slant ...

That index fingers only job is to act as a pivot point ... and apply a small downward pressure ... to ensure contact between the bar and strings.

The "Thumb" is in control of everything ... the middle finger just "catches" the tip.

Please pay no attention to my fret mis-alignment ... I was takin' the picture with the other hand ... just tryin' to show the fingers

Next ...

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Aiello's House of Gauss

My wife and I don't think alike. She donates money to the homeless and I donate money to the topless! ... R. Dangerfield

[This message was edited by Rick Aiello on 16 March 2005 at 11:16 AM.]

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Fender Stringmaster T8, Carter D-10, 54' Fender Champion, two Oahu laps, two National laps, and two Resonators

Jerry always sez your bar movement when slanting should be just like turning a corner in your car. Keep the bottom end in position and drive the tip around then let the tail follow. This keeps the sound sweet during the turn.

quote:

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what size bars are you usin?

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Again ... you are gonna get alot of "variations on this theme" ....

When I usta use this "style" ... I could only properly execute the reverse slants as fast as they were called for on some JB arrangements ...

By using a 2 3/4" x 3/4" bar.

Even the 2 7/8" x 3/4" bars (BJS and Pearse) were too long for me ... and I have big hands.

Next ...

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www.gregertsen.com

If you walk with a slant, try walking with one leg in the gutter and the other leg up on the curb.........that should straighten you right out.

The smallest bar will help you get the reverse slant, though I find that the added weight of the other two bars give a different kind of advantage. Each bar has a significant indentation in the back for your thumb.

The small bar is great for carrying around in your pocket just in case you happen to run into a steel guitar in your day's travels.

[This message was edited by Pete Grant on 16 March 2005 at 02:17 PM.]

I asked my wife is she could break mine and set it so it was permanently in that position ... but she answered ...

quote:

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Butt, how would you pick your ...

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Just tryin' to help out, Ray ...

Jim ... nope ... forward slants are easy with a "flattie" ... but no reverse slantin' (least I can't).

I spent the better part of the last 17 yrs learnin' to slant and play in "that style" ...

Payin' "my dues" as some call it ...

Now I'm just tryin' to get a single note to sound good ...

And maybe throw in two notes or a strum ... to be fancy ....

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Aiello's House of Gauss

My wife and I don't think alike. She donates money to the homeless and I donate money to the topless! ... R. Dangerfield

[This message was edited by Rick Aiello on 16 March 2005 at 06:42 PM.]

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Lashley Legrande D10 8x7,Fessenden 8x8, Sierra Lap-Top, Webb Amps

Byron ... yep ... a Dual Professional.

It's my "walk up & play" steel ...

When I have a free moment ... I'll walk up to it ... unplugged ... and play.

Its walnut body has a lovely sound ...

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Aiello's House of Gauss

My wife and I don't think alike. She donates money to the homeless and I donate money to the topless! ... R. Dangerfield

[This message was edited by Rick Aiello on 16 March 2005 at 06:42 PM.]

quote:

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Steinar......noticing your bar in relation to the strings (over & under thingy),

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Huh? You mean it's not supposed to be like that? Isn't that the whole point of a round bar?

I remember that, eh, very creative interpretation of the term "string-through pickup" from eBay.. It wasn't me selling it but it was me who posted the photo...

Steinar

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www.gregertsen.com

[This message was edited by Steinar Gregertsen on 16 March 2005 at 07:02 PM.]

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Ricky Davis

Rebel™ and Ricky's Audio Clips
www.mightyfinemusic.com
Email Ricky: sshawaiian@austin.rr.com

Could it be you just invented the SteelGuitarCapo™®?

Maybe Rick can answer this ! When I
got my first Steel , I got a Flat bar - There
may have been Round ones But I didn't
know about them - with the tunings ! " E7th
" or just " E" it seem that the only slant necessary
was a forward ! I haven't tried E or E7th in a lot
of years !

were there Reverse Slants !
with that tuning . ????
All I can say about Reverse now is ! its just part
of playing ! you don't even think about it - I believe
you can say the same about a pedal Player - if you
have to think about the pedals your already to late

Any E tuning with the top three strings bein' ... 3 5 1 ... will give you a "Main-stay" reverse slant ... V7 to I

Here is an example in E maj (lo to hi) ... E B E G# B E

A G7 to C resolve ...

--- 7 --- 8 ---
--- 8 --- 8 ---
--- 9 --- 8 ---
---------------
---------------
---------------

This very "maneuver" is the basis of JB's reverse slant "Tour De Force" ... Surprise Waltz ... in his E9 (D E F# G# B E).

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Aiello's House of Gauss

My wife and I don't think alike. She donates money to the homeless and I donate money to the topless! ... R. Dangerfield

[This message was edited by Rick Aiello on 17 March 2005 at 11:02 AM.]

Ex: Dm to G7 to C

--- 10 --- 7 --- 8 ---
--- 10 --- 8 --- 8 ---
---  9 --- 9 --- 8 ---

And ya got a classic ii-V7-I cadence ...

And some serious "bar maneuverin' practice" ...

I love the pictures and the tab for the different slants. Do you have any other slant tabs?

Slantin' in C6/A7 & Other Tunin's

There's an "explaination" for my notation ... as you scroll down.

It's just a "Key Based" view of the fretboard ... using numbers to represent the notes in a chord.

This can be used to "chart out" any tunin' ... once you get the idea behind it.

All those files on that page ... are just stuff I did for myself ... many years ago ... to figure out what was "behind" the tab I was usin'/learnin' from.

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Aiello's House of Gauss

My wife and I don't think alike. She donates money to the homeless and I donate money to the topless! ... R. Dangerfield

[This message was edited by Rick Aiello on 17 March 2005 at 01:21 PM.]

Steinar

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www.gregertsen.com

Here's a standard "Slant-A-Rama" in C6 tunin' ...

ii - V7 - I ...

E --- 10 --- 9 --- 8 --- 7 --- 8
C ---  9 --- 9 -----------------
A ---  8 --- 8 --- 8 --- 8 --- 7
G ------------------------------
E ------------------------------
C ------------------------------
       Dm    F+    F     G7    C

Good warm up ...

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Aiello's House of Gauss

My wife and I don't think alike. She donates money to the homeless and I donate money to the topless! ... R. Dangerfield

[This message was edited by Rick Aiello on 17 March 2005 at 02:40 PM.]

The index finger really "should" be crooked to form the fulcrum around which the bar tip will rotate as previously well said by others in this discussion. Keeping that fulcrum in one place is a jewel of technique. Your thumbnail will fit right into the recess on the heel of the bar, and in moving the bar forward will rotate onto the meat of your thumb where the amount of bar slant can be felt and programmed into the brain by muscle-motor and eyeball-paralax and ear memories. Control is the key because rather than "spitting" the bar out to receive the thumb, the thumb motion should have full control of slants at all times ...for fluidity of inflections on either end or along the bar which that full control affords. And doing it that way does indeed offer a superior fluid control of the bar, ...not to say that other methods don't too; I "simply" trust Jerry Byrd's word that he has tried everything he could to perfect his techniques which I fully believe, respect and strive for.

Besides the arched index finger being "correct" ...and noticeable in the pictures of many (but not all) pedal and non-pedal Steelers who do it that way; Jerry Byrd's left hand finger tip joint is actually deformed with a noticeable slant leftward toward the bar which makes controlling the bar fulcrum easier with the crooked finger and additional sharp verticle finger-tip angle he uses. It appears to me to be a natural deformation "broken in" perfectly by the repetitive pressures of playing that "correct" way.

Now, the natural crook of my left finger turns away from the bar slightly, ...which causes down-pressure with that finger to push the finger off of the bar, requiring sideward pressure against the fingertip to keep it on the bar ...quite mechanically difficult and painful over an extended period of playing time. No matter how hard and much I try (which has been and remains ALLOT), my index finger refuses to be able to remain in place in the proper crooked position at the bar-tip fulcrum and still maintain control of the bar while playing in real time. So even though I practice it "properly" in slower time and have hopes that might fix the problem; in real time I too often find my index finger displaced much like your picture of the bar extended into reverse slant. I've also noticed that to be the case in pictures of other Steelers as well ...Jr Brown a case in point, (since I try to analyze every aspect of that musical nut-case (a compliment of the highest degree) whose index and ring fingers hold the bar in a "V" manner in every picture I've seen of his left hand playing. But I have also analyzed and found that the fulcrum will indeed move as the index finger moves away from the proper spot ...with noticeable loss of slanting intonation control on that end of the bar.

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The best way I've found to practice and teach the coordination and programming of muscle-motor, eye paralax and the ear for reverse slants, is by playing / practicing major scales harmony up and down the neck, ...(in a 6th tuning) starting with the 1 note on the 1st string and 3 note on the 4th string; and also with the 1 note on the 3rd string and 3rd note on the 6th string. Next explore changing the scale to minor7 ...and then other minors. I prefer sticking with the church mode minors because they lead to understanding modal navigation and keep the church mode interval series intact to engrain a sense and armature of good harmony that can be departed from as need be. Another good practice technique is to play the 1 note on the 2nd string together with the 3 note on the 5th string, and then moving into a reverse slant slide the 3 note up to the 4 note and back to the 3 note like a pedal steel movement ...making sure to keep the 1 note in intonation and the 3 - 4 - 3 note movements arrive and in intonation. It is very important to watch the left hand working while practicing, to notice and correct any hand technique errors in real time.

Here is a simple exercise of the Major 7 scale with harmony in a mode-box, that uses forward and reverse slants at the bottom and top of the box.

And here is another simple exercise of a passage putting that scale / position to work ...which can have the box's fuller scale harmonies worked into it to use the slants at the bottom and top of the box's scale. Utilizing the reverse slant exercises first said in this posting, ...along with forward slant scale on the 2nd and 5th strings, ...they can move right out of this exercise box into a different chord-change / mode box.

Aloha,
DT~

[This message was edited by Denny Turner on 22 March 2005 at 04:50 AM.]

Also, Jerry's places his index fingertip slightly to the right of the center of the bar tip ...again natural for his bent finger tip digit; Although he teaches to place it at the center near the tip. But I also find just slightly right of center to be best for my finger as well, because it secures the bar against the ring finger better while still controlling the fulcrum point.

I might also mention that when practicing reverse slants, ...the bar will zero in on any exposed toes when it makes it's all-too-often departure from the neck ! .

Aloha,
DT~

[This message was edited by Denny Turner on 22 March 2005 at 05:02 AM.]

quote:

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slightly to the right of the center of the bar tip

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