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Author
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Topic: What year did C#m7 appear on records?
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Jesse Pearson
Member From: San Diego , CA
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posted 22 December 2005 01:32 AM
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I was trying to answer this question, mainly because it concerns Sol Hoppii and the tunnings he used and when, during his life. I think he used a "high A" tuning on his Reso stuff in the 20' and started using C#m7 in the 30' after he went electric. Does anyone know for sure when he started using C#m7 and also who is credited with its creation? Additionally, does any one know for sure what year Sol went electric and with what tuning (EBEG#C#E)? Thanks... |
basilh
Member From: United Kingdom
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posted 22 December 2005 02:48 AM
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It's appropriate that you should ask this question in the month of December...
His FIRST recording on electric Hawaiian guitar was on Dec 12th 1934 ..'My Isle on Hilo Bay' Sol Ho'opi'i and his Novelty Quartet American Brunswick 55079..
Sol is generally acknowledged to have developed the C#m7 tuning..
Hope this helps you Jesse..Be careful what version of the C#m7 tuning you quote as his first.. It was modified and developed over time..
Mele Kalikimaka------------------
quote:
Steel players do it without fretting
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Rick Aiello
Member From: Berryville, VA USA
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posted 22 December 2005 05:59 AM
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My Isle on Hilo Bay  ------------------
Aiello's Cast Steel Guitars
My wife and I don't think alike. She donates money to the homeless and I donate money to the topless! ... R. Dangerfield
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Erv Niehaus
Member From: Litchfield, MN, USA
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posted 22 December 2005 07:24 AM
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On an 8 string Stringmaster, I like to have C#m7 on one of the necks.
However, with an 8 string tuning, I put a B between the C# and G# on the upper end. |
Jesse Pearson
Member From: San Diego , CA
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posted 22 December 2005 10:49 AM
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Basilh, thanks for the info, that pretty much answers my questions. Great to hear from you, hope everything is cool with you and you have a great Xmas season. Rick, holy moly, that is the most beautiful Sol Hoppii song I have ever heard. That goes into my set list for sure, can't wait to learn it. Thanks bro... |
Bill Creller
Member From: Saginaw, Michigan, USA
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posted 22 December 2005 09:58 PM
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Very nice Rick. What kind of guitar do you think? It has a little bit of a frypan sound, but hard to really tell with the old style vibrata.
I like C#m, but I cant play many tunes on it yet.[This message was edited by Bill Creller on 22 December 2005 at 09:59 PM.] |
George Keoki Lake
Member From: Edmonton, AB., Canada
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posted 22 December 2005 10:09 PM
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C#m is a favorite with me. However, I really prefer the F#9th on my 6 string Ric Fry Pan. ( HI to LO: E C# G# E A# F# ). You can see the similarity. Dick McIntire used F#9th on many of his recordings. I guess one of the few using C#m today would be my old friend Bud Tutmarc who was a very close friend to Sol Ho'opi'i. Bud has always used C#m in all of his beautiful recordings...which are many. |
Rick Aiello
Member From: Berryville, VA USA
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posted 23 December 2005 05:54 AM
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Bill ... I'll wager, a frypan ... sounds like one to me. Baz said it was recorded ... Dec. 1934 The discography from the source of that recording has a date of March 1935 ... might have been the release date. I'm sure he had access to any "prototype" or "first run" B6 ... but he probably had been playin' pans for a few yrs ... and I would imagine he'd a stuck with that for his first electric recordings ...  Just conjecture on my part, though ... Jesse ... I really like those three songs from that session ... some of my fav's for sure. He ain't no Andy Iona though ... ------------------
Aiello's Cast Steel Guitars
My wife and I don't think alike. She donates money to the homeless and I donate money to the topless! ... R. Dangerfield
[This message was edited by Rick Aiello on 23 December 2005 at 05:55 AM.]
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basilh
Member From: United Kingdom
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posted 23 December 2005 08:19 AM
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The source of the date is John Marsden and Malcolm Rockwell
The date Rick mentions is erroneous.
Between them John and Malcolm have the COMPLETE discography of ALL Hawaiian Guitar recordings..
Malcolm's is soon to be published..3:30 Pm December 12th 1934..
Had it been 1935, it might probably have been a Bakelite .. which is wasn't, but the landmark electric recordings of 1938 were. |
Rick Aiello
Member From: Berryville, VA USA
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posted 23 December 2005 09:41 AM
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quote:
The date Rick mentions is erroneous.
I said: quote:
Baz said it was recorded ... Dec. 1934The discography from the source of that recording has a date of March 1935 ... might have been the release date.
Hey Baz ... take it up with the source :
From "Hawaiian & Hawaiian Guitar Records 1891-1960" ©1999 T. M. Rockwell - all rights reserved.
Contact: P.O. Box 1064, Kula, HI 96990-1064 (808) 878 2715 E-mail: malcolm@maui.net
43. A Flower Lei (3:15) Sol Hoopii And His Novelty Quartette: Sol Hoopii, esg, v; unk. g, v; unk. uke, v; unk. sbs; Bob Cutter, vt; band as v chorus, v; Los Angeles, CA, c. 03/35, Br 55079, mx LA 354-B
44. My Isle On Hilo Bay (3:13) Sol Hoopii And His Novelty Quartette: Sol Hoopii, esg, v; unk. g, v; unk. uke, v; unk. sbs; Bob Cutter, vt; band as v chorus, v; Los Angeles, CA, c. 03/35, Br 55079, mx LA 348-B 45. Pidgin English Hula (3:06) Sol Hoopii And His Novelty Quartette: Sol Hoopii And His Novelty Quartette: Sol Hoopii, esg, v; unk. g, v; unk. uke, v; unk. sbs; Bob Cutter, vt; band as v chorus, v; Los Angeles, CA, c. 03/35, Br 55080, mx LA 351-A 46. Iniki Malie (3:02) Sol Hoopii And His Novelty Quartette: Sol Hoopii And His Novelty Quartette: Sol Hoopii, esg, v; unk. g, v; unk. uke, v; unk. sbs; Bob Cutter, vt; band as v chorus, v; Los Angeles, CA, c. 03/35, Br 55080, mx LA 352-A ------------------
Aiello's Cast Steel Guitars
My wife and I don't think alike. She donates money to the homeless and I donate money to the topless! ... R. Dangerfield
[This message was edited by Rick Aiello on 23 December 2005 at 09:43 AM.]
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basilh
Member From: United Kingdom
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posted 23 December 2005 02:04 PM
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Rick, don't be so quick to "Put me down"
I will quote the sources in a few minutes when I check them, but to be going on with, Malcolm's book page headed July 5 1998 Bottom of the page Ho'opi'i 6 ..
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basilh
Member From: United Kingdom
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posted 23 December 2005 02:10 PM
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In a letter dated 1973 The Count Christian Rosenborg says that the recording was made at 3:30pm on the 12th of December 1934.. This information he got DIRECT from the Brunswick archives as he was privy to them.This is who HE is (Taken from Keith Grant's "The Hawaiian Music Record Collectors' Directory" )
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basilh
Member From: United Kingdom
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posted 23 December 2005 02:25 PM
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Of particular interest is that Malcolm's Father "Tommy" who started working for Vocalion records after World War 1, later moved to Colombia and Okeh records as producer and A&R man, and was initially instrumental in the signing of Sol Ho'opi'i to Columbia records in 1926..Of course I still could be at the "Wrong end of the Horse" but I don't think so !!! |
Rick Aiello
Member From: Berryville, VA USA
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posted 23 December 2005 02:51 PM
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quote:
Rick, don't be so quick to "Put me down"
Look pal ...  You were the one to jump in and say my date was erroneous ... when the info that I was adding ... was from YOUR named source's work quote:
The source of the date is John Marsden and Malcolm RockwellThe date Rick mentions is erroneous. Between them John and Malcolm have the COMPLETE discography of ALL Hawaiian Guitar recordings.. Malcolm's is soon to be published.. 3:30 Pm December 12th 1934..
I never said when the thing was recorded anyway ... just that Malcolm Rockwell had put a date of 03/35 to that particular record ... I even suggested that ... it may have been a release date ... since it contradicted your info ... So how do they say it in your country ... Bugger Off
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Aiello's Cast Steel Guitars
My wife and I don't think alike. She donates money to the homeless and I donate money to the topless! ... R. Dangerfield
[This message was edited by Rick Aiello on 23 December 2005 at 03:06 PM.]
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basilh
Member From: United Kingdom
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posted 23 December 2005 03:49 PM
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Rick.. that's just not nice especially as we're in the festive season.Lighten up!!
This is a brotherhood to share information not attack each other.
Before I pass on, I'll pass on what I know to those who'll listen.. Gleaned from over 50 years of playing (and listening), just as a starter..
Your info is taken out of context from the book, and is NOW known to be erroneous, by those who know.
I'm only serving as a "conduit" for John Marsden in this matter.. that's the same john Marsden who got the "Jerry Byrd Lifetime Achievement Award" from the Steel Guitar Hall of Fame..He didn't get that by fighting with people or by not knowing his facts. If you doubt me , call John and ask him 0044-114-255-1907..(You'll get him at home any morning between 9:30 and midday UK time)
Dismiss me if you must, but you can't dismiss the Count or John Marsden ,.. they really do know.
[This message was edited by basilh on 23 December 2005 at 03:52 PM.] |
Rick Aiello
Member From: Berryville, VA USA
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posted 23 December 2005 04:18 PM
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quote:
Rick.. that's just not nice especially as we're in the festive season. Lighten up!!
Oh ... I was "observing" the spirit of the season ... If it was March ... I'd have used the vernacular of my neighborhood ... !!!!! quote:
This is a brotherhood to share information not attack each other.
You sir ... are no brother of mine. quote:
Your info is taken out of context from the book, and is NOW known to be erroneous, by those who know.
How do you figure that ... c. 03/35 ...  quote:
Dismiss me if you must
Trust me, I dismissed you many years ago. ------------------
Aiello's Cast Steel Guitars
My wife and I don't think alike. She donates money to the homeless and I donate money to the topless! ... R. Dangerfield
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basilh
Member From: United Kingdom
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posted 23 December 2005 04:37 PM
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I was going to say quote:
I see you "Passed" on the Nitty Gritty and concentrated on the erroneous again..
Must be excess of the Christmas Spirit.
But I think I'll just wish you all that you wish others !! |
Jesse Pearson
Member From: San Diego , CA
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posted 23 December 2005 04:57 PM
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Come on guys, your both recognized as leading authorities when it comes to steel guitar. We as musicians are a sensitive lot, that’s why I stayed off the forum for a while because I started getting too serious with my temper. Creative tension is a trippy thing, the best musicians have it. Heck, if Jeff Au Hoy and I can kiss and make up, anything is possible, lol. Merry Xmas... [This message was edited by Jesse Pearson on 23 December 2005 at 05:22 PM.] |
Brad Bechtel
Moderator From: San Francisco, CA
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posted 23 December 2005 05:49 PM
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Closed.------------------
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