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Author
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Topic: Archiving Jerry Byrd ... I Need Help
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Rick Aiello
Member From: Berryville, VA USA
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posted 22 December 2005 10:56 AM
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I need some better ears than my own ... I am in the middle of preserving the "Rhythm Tapes" made by Jerry Byrd (himself) that accompany his Pro-Arrangements ... archiving them from cassette tapes to CD. I've already well into it now ... and at this point .... I need some help ... They are all safely stored ... in their original "state" ... as .wav files on CDRs. But ... #1 - The tape hiss is real bad. #2 - The reference "E" and the corresponding songs are sharp ... No doubt it was a result of the "taping speed" process. I usta play them on a nice Harman Kardon tape deck ... where I could vary the tape speed ... Since I'm no Bruce Clarke here ... Which of the following sounds the "best" to y'all. First ... the Original / Unaltered version. Hawaiian Paradise #1 Second ... Noise Reduction only Hawaiian Paradise #2 Third ... Noise Reduction and Pitch Correction ... Hawaiian Paradise #3 I used a spectrum analyzer to determine the reference "E" pitch and then calculated the "correction factor" ... JB's "E" = 334 to 336 Hz (varies with song)
Concert "E" = 329.6 Hz So the tapes "E's" are in the neighborhood of 30 cents sharp of their equal tempered value based on A440. The correction mode in my Sound Forge had an option of changing pitch ... with or without ... a duration change. I chose WITH a duration change ... because when I tried preserving the exact tempo of the original ... it added a slight echo artifact. Thanks, in advance, for lendin' me your ears ... ------------------
Aiello's Cast Steel Guitars
My wife and I don't think alike. She donates money to the homeless and I donate money to the topless! ... R. Dangerfield
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basilh
Member From: United Kingdom
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posted 22 December 2005 11:30 AM
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Just change the pitch and let the length change.. that would correctly compensate for the different speeds of cassette players/duplication equipment.
Baz |
Rick Aiello
Member From: Berryville, VA USA
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posted 22 December 2005 11:33 AM
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Thats what I did in #3. |
Andy Sandoval
Member From: Bakersfield, California, USA
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posted 22 December 2005 11:41 AM
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Rick, number 2 and 3 sounded very similar to my ears, lots cleaner than number 1 for sure. I vote for which ever one has the corrected pitch. How many of these rhythm tracks do you have? Good job BTW.[This message was edited by Andy Sandoval on 22 December 2005 at 11:45 AM.] |
Rick Aiello
Member From: Berryville, VA USA
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posted 22 December 2005 11:58 AM
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There are 80 songs.  ------------------
Aiello's Cast Steel Guitars
My wife and I don't think alike. She donates money to the homeless and I donate money to the topless! ... R. Dangerfield
[This message was edited by Rick Aiello on 22 December 2005 at 12:00 PM.]
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Don Kona Woods
Member From: Vancouver, Washington, USA
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posted 22 December 2005 01:18 PM
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Rick,I have the same set of JB rhythm tapes and pitch has always been a problem. I could only correct the pitch problem on one tape recorder but it produced low quality sound. I have not used them, since getting the Band-In-A-Box program for my back-up tapes. It seems like a great, worthy project that you have undertaken. Keep up the good work.  Aloha,
Don |
Gerald Ross
Member From: Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
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posted 22 December 2005 01:23 PM
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Sounds good Rick. In my experience, cleaning up hiss etc. is a give and take. Many times you get rid of the hiss but all the high ends suffer. To do it right you need Bruce Clarke level hardware and software. For backup and learning purposes the more inexpensive route works just fine. You also toned down some of JB's Ohio accent, good job! Now he sounds like Ricardo Montelbon (kidding). ------------------
Gerald Ross
'Northwest Ann Arbor, Michigan's King Of The Hawaiian Steel Guitar' 
CEO, CIO, CFO - UkeTone Records
Gerald's Fingerstyle Guitar Website
Board of Directors Hawaiian Steel Guitar Association |
Kevin Ruddell
Member From: Toledo Ohio USA
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posted 22 December 2005 01:27 PM
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Rick ;
Have you thought about using the SoundSoap software program ? I think Macworld magazine reviewed it a few issues back and the retail was $99 . I just saw it somewhere for around $70. I can't remember if there was pitch corrrection on it , but the noise reduction for vinyl 78's and cassette seemed pretty impressive .Something that was probably unavailable to amateurs or pocketbooks until recently. Just a suggestion |
Gerald Ross
Member From: Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
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posted 22 December 2005 01:38 PM
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I have SoundSoap, the version for ProTools or other digital recording software. It works but many times adds digital artifacts to the sound. Little squirely sounds. Also cuts the high ends extremely.I've used this to clean up LP's and tapes and it works pretty well. Cheap too.
http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?product_code=332417&pfp=cat3
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Gerald Ross
'Northwest Ann Arbor, Michigan's King Of The Hawaiian Steel Guitar'
CEO, CIO, CFO - UkeTone Records
Gerald's Fingerstyle Guitar Website
Board of Directors Hawaiian Steel Guitar Association |
Rick Aiello
Member From: Berryville, VA USA
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posted 22 December 2005 04:03 PM
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Thanks y'all ... Like Don, ... I too, turned to BIAB ... but have never been real happy with the various "styles" and "instruments" ... regardless of which sound card or canvas I tried. I've widdled it down to just an "acoustic piano" ... hittin' chords ... like a "pitched metronome". I do have some seriously high quality rhythm guitar tracks that Mike Neer did up for me ... what a huge difference they make !!!! I just want these safe ... and the flaws fixed the best I can ... ------------------
Aiello's Cast Steel Guitars
My wife and I don't think alike. She donates money to the homeless and I donate money to the topless! ... R. Dangerfield
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Stephan Miller
Member From: Silver Spring, Maryland, USA
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posted 22 December 2005 08:22 PM
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To me #3's the best-sounding... with a slight edge over #2. A little more clarity and detail. Thought I heard the difference in his voice as well. |
Bill Hatcher
Member From: Atlanta Ga. USA
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posted 22 December 2005 09:37 PM
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If you tune the track and let the time change, you will have the orginal tempo the song was done at when the recording session was going on. If you have been listening to it at a pitch other than 440 then this was not the original tempo. Surely the instruments would have been tuned to 440 at the recording session.The track is very dull sounding to begin with. A muddy sounding elect. rhythm guitar, some sort of bass, and a marginal ac. piano track. If you use the noise reduction then you muddy it up even more as you are subtracting upper frequencies to reduce the tape hiss. The transfer has poor signal to noise ratio, that is why you are hearing so much tape hiss. Also the tuning note has a lot of tape machine flutter in it (warbling). Don't know if it is in the master tape or if your machine is doing it. I would record a straight tone into your machine and then play it back to see if your maching is running correctly. If it were my tapes, I would just record them as hot as I could into the digital world and then live with the tape hiss in order to have as much clarity in the track as possible. You can always use Sound Forge to scrub the tape hiss out of the silent sections before the voice, tuning note and the gap before the track starts. Example #3 is wierd sounding--"phasey" and not natural. Just my opinion. Your working with a tough source track here. |
Rick Aiello
Member From: Berryville, VA USA
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posted 23 December 2005 06:12 AM
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Thanks Bill ... Bruce Clarke had said that doing JB's Instructional course "clean up" ... was very difficult. He turned the whole project over to his son Dallas ... and they had the original masters. The reason I was interested in the "pitch correction" ... is that it isn't a big deal for me to "pull up" the tunin' on my steel ... But a guy I usta know had a very nice, "ancient" Martin guitar ... and he refused to tune "up" to the tapes pitch ... This is just something I'm messin' with ... waitin' for the ice to melt around here ...  ------------------
Aiello's Cast Steel Guitars
My wife and I don't think alike. She donates money to the homeless and I donate money to the topless! ... R. Dangerfield
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Mitch Druckman
Member From: Arizona, USA
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posted 23 December 2005 07:24 AM
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Although the tape hiss is loud, as Bill expressed, I found the hissy tracks more listenable than the noise reduced versions. My vote would be for pitch and tempo correction withOUT noise reduction.
The tracks are quite dull sounding. Isn't there some kind of enhancer (BBE) which could bring some punch and instrument separation to the tracks? |
John McGann
Member From: Boston, Massachusetts, USA
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posted 23 December 2005 09:45 AM
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A cheap pitch correction fix is in the Amazing Slow Downer- which obviously also lets you change speed. $40 and well worth it (not financial interest here, just a great product) www.ronimusic.com ------------------
http://www.johnmcgann.com
Info for musicians, transcribers, technique tips and fun stuff. Joaquin Murphey transcription book, Rhythm Tuneup DVD and more... |
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