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Author
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Topic: What are the ORIGINAL Hawaiian steel tunings?
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Jesse Pearson
Member From: San Diego , CA
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posted 08 January 2006 08:07 PM
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?[This message was edited by Jesse Pearson on 08 January 2006 at 08:23 PM.] |
John Bushouse
Member From:
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posted 08 January 2006 08:26 PM
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Jesse, they may have been tuning to tuning forks, but those tuning forks may not have been A=440. |
basilh
Member From: United Kingdom
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posted 09 January 2006 02:55 AM
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I think the until someone finds instructional material and Hawaiian guitar music written in other than the A major tuning, we can presume that it was the first ACCEPTED 'standard' tuning used.
It's interesting that no-one has indicated the existence of tab or manuscript from the early 1900's !
I have Hawaiian guitar manuscript from the mid 1880's giving the tuning as E-C#-A-E-A-EBTW Can anyone tell me where to find the hash/sharp (#) sign on a "Standard Mac Keyboard" it's a pain searching for the character and copy/pasting it !!! |
David Doggett
Member From: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA
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posted 09 January 2006 07:56 AM
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I thought the # sign was over the 3 on all keyboards going back to the old typewriters, but I don't use Mac. |
Jesse Pearson
Member From: San Diego , CA
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posted 09 January 2006 08:13 AM
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When Equal Tempered tuning became the standard for piano, than the tuning forks used by classical, marching bands, etc. would have reflected this. It wouldn't matter what the tuning forks were as long as they were from the ET series. But I would think that A-440 was easier to make cost wise because of it's size. What would matter was, are you playing with other instruments that have a static pitch i.e. Delta blues guitar with harmonica? The A-440 standard that was reported in the 1920' was probably concerning the recording gear used by the big record companies (publicity to sell records) and even then, there are many examples of records being off all the way through the 1960'? By the 1900' people would tune to ET if they could because of the need for the instruments to be on the same pitch. Personaly, I tune my guitars and bass's down a half step in the open string position (not the steels), because it's easier to sing. But I still tune to A-440 ET, it's just in a different place on the neck now. Like I said before, the G and D Hawaiian books are probable geared for sell to Dobro owners for greatest sells potential? When did Open low A take over Open low G (Spanish tuning, parlor guitars), when they discovered it gave a louder sound and made steel playing easier due to the increased tension. Lowell George of Little Feat said he used Open low A because it gave more tension on the strings and made it easier to play slide.
[This message was edited by Jesse Pearson on 09 January 2006 at 09:06 AM.]
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Brad Bechtel
Moderator From: San Francisco, CA
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posted 09 January 2006 08:51 AM
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What Jesse said.
The # key on the UK keyboard should be the unshifted tilde (~) key to the right of the ENTER/RETURN key.------------------
Brad's Page of Steel
A web site devoted to acoustic & electric lap steel guitars |
basilh
Member From: United Kingdom
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posted 09 January 2006 09:04 AM
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Thanks Brad, but the Mac keyboard on my G4 has the tilde (~) as the first key on the bottom row (Far left) and believe it or not, there is NO hash (#) key I have to find a post using it and copy/paste |
Brad Bechtel
Moderator From: San Francisco, CA
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posted 09 January 2006 10:19 AM
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Try Option+3. You can find the keyboard layout options in your System Preferences > International > Input Menu. Select "Keyboard Viewer" to see a list of the various key combinations. Hold down Ctrl, Option and Cmd in any combination to see how to access other characters.Now, as to the original Hawaiian tunings, all the early literature I've seen uses the low bass A tuning (bass to treble E A E A C# E). It isn't until approximately 1930 or so that you start seeing other tunings being used, approximately the same time that electric steel guitars started becoming more prevalent. I believe early steel players such as Bob Dunn used open A tuning, but I'd have to double check that. I would guess that the open G tuning became more popular because of the Dobro® and its use in bluegrass and country music. I would guess that Josh Graves' work with Flatt & Scruggs made it clear that open G worked better with the banjo, which is also tuned in open G.
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Brad's Page of Steel
A web site devoted to acoustic & electric lap steel guitars |
basilh
Member From: United Kingdom
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posted 09 January 2006 01:00 PM
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I'm glad someone authoritative has confirmed my belief.. I can now carry on my research with extra diligence and purpose...
Also, thanks a million Brad .. you've opened up a "Can of Worms" as far as my access to extra characters .. I think the 'Closed Omega' and the 'Extended Omega' can be quite funny
[This message was edited by basilh on 09 January 2006 at 01:00 PM.] |
Jesse Pearson
Member From: San Diego , CA
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posted 09 January 2006 11:22 PM
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Confirmed your belief of what Baz? And the rest of us are what, just chopped liver, lol. I have a steel guitar book from the 20' I bought on e-bay a long time ago; it's in Open low A, so? It's not a mystery that the first published steel guitar works are in Low open A, so? I find it interesting that you don't redress your commits about all the Open G etc. books you claim are wrong. I would be interested in knowing why you think those books came out in the first place, because those guys who put those books out are the real authorities on the subject. So what do you think they were thinking concerning the tunings they used, lol! |
basilh
Member From: United Kingdom
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posted 10 January 2006 03:35 AM
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Right Jesse, Brad IS an accepted expert, I wasn't dismissing the rest of the replies. My total education was 14 months of schooling after seven years in an "Iron Lung" recovering from Polio. I didn't learn too much about people skills and the like, so if I put my foot in it occasionally, just put it down to the fact that although willing, sometimes I am a little hasty with my replies and possibly dumb.
In the time that I have left in this world I want to pass on what I've learned, and maybe, just maybe, learn a little more. With me more than most, the hunger is great. I wasn't criticising the modern books for their value as teaching aids, but I was wondering why the tunings were not as per original Hawaiian Players used. I think you and the other guys who replied to the post hit the nail on the head when mentioning that the D and G tunings were the PREFERRED tunings of the authors.
whist I cannot doubt that Stacey Phillips and Bob Brozman are experts in their own fields I would question the designation of G and D based tunings as "Hawaiian" ..Yes they ARE tunings used on the Hawaiian Guitar, It's just that I'm sure if a slack key or bottleneck player decided to write an instructional book for REGULAR guitar, anything other than E-B-G-D-A-E would be considered as a departure from the accepted norm.
I have no hidden agenda in what I am asking or stating, after all It's just MY opinion, and history here on the 'Forum" proves that I am quite wrong at times, maybe this is one of those times. |
David Doggett
Member From: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA
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posted 10 January 2006 05:46 AM
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By trying to label a single tuning in a single key "Hawaiian", and defining everything else as bluegrass or blues, I think you are fighting a loosing battle. While your rigid definitions may seem logical and correct to you, they are probably meaningless to everyone else. It may well be true that low-bass A was the most popular Hawaiian tuning and key at the time the first instruction books were written. But it seems equally true that other tunings and other keys were used by Hawaiians all along.Most musicians of any era would not consider low-bass A and low-bass G different tunings, simply the same tuning in different, very close keys. Also, at some point early on, Hawaiians started using 7th, 6th and other tunings. When Jerry Byrd took those earlier tunings as inspiration and invented the C6 tuning, it solidified these more complex tunings in the public mind as being the Hawaiian sound. This is so true today that when people try different tunings, they will say that the 6th and other complex tunings "sound Hawaiian." On the other hand, because country and bluegrass pickers stuck with high-bass G, people will say that sounds country. And, because blues players with their rhythmic bass needs stuck with low-bass A/G and low-bass E/D, people will say those sound like blues tunings. So while your rigid definitions may be historically correct, you, as the inventor of that terminology, will be the only one who understands it and recognizes your rigid distinctions; and that usage may be an impediment to your communication with other musicians. The king (or was it the queen) in Alice in Wonderland could say things "mean what they mean because I say they do." But we don't live in Wonderland, and you're not king.  |
basilh
Member From: United Kingdom
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posted 10 January 2006 08:47 AM
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Dave whist you say that "Most musicians of any era" etc and "probably meaningless to everyone else" you are setting YOURSELF up as the "Authority"
You are presuming that YOUR statements are the accepted norm and mine are somehow just mine.
whilst there are statistics to verify what I have said, where are yours ?
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Brad Bechtel
Moderator From: San Francisco, CA
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posted 10 January 2006 08:56 AM
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Closed by request. ------------------
Brad's Page of Steel
A web site devoted to acoustic & electric lap steel guitars |
Topic Closed
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