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Author
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Topic: Fanned Frets
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Alan F. Brookes
Member From: Brummy living in California, USA
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posted 07 April 2006 04:43 PM
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If you look at old citterns from the middle ages you will find that several had fanned frets. What I mean is that the scale on the first course is longer than the scale on the bottom course. This means that the frets are not parallel, but given the position of the hand, it replicates the change in angle of the hand as it spans the frets. This principle was taken up again about ten years ago by Novax Guitars, and they have been very popular.On the steel guitar we bar from the other side, but there will always be a parallax difference which we have to account for. Our arms fan out from the low-string side of the instrument, and keeping the steel parallel to the frets requires a lot of practice. I haven't tried this yet on a lap steel, although I have on citterns that I've built: what about franned frets on a lap steel, but fanned the opposite of a fingered instrument, so that the scale on the lowest string would be shorter than on the highest string ? |
Rick Collins
Member From: Claremont , CA USA
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posted 07 April 2006 05:02 PM
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quote:
but there will always be a parallax difference which we have to account for.
Hence, the importance of good vibrato. |
Ron Bednar
Member From: Rancho Cordova, California, USA
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posted 07 April 2006 05:39 PM
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Alan, it's there already...the bar can go anywhere. Find those positions by ear or tuner. Frets don't mean anything to a lap steel, they are just there as position markers. If we were as attentive as we should be, we ought to be able to play blindfolded...and I am sure there are more than a few players here that can anyway. Unfortunately, I am not one of them.Cheers, Ron |
Alan F. Brookes
Member From: Brummy living in California, USA
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posted 07 April 2006 05:53 PM
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Yes, you're right. We should be able to play blindfolded. That's what Sol Hoopii always reckoned.But the point about this is not so much the fretboard, which you don't have to look at, but that on a fanned-fretted instrument the bridge and nut are both slanted in opposite directions. |
Jeff Au Hoy
Member From: Honolulu, Hawai'i
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posted 07 April 2006 06:08 PM
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Rick, you're being facetious, no?I always the thought the ideal compensation for the parallax problem is to rely on the ear and to position the bar accordingly. You'll still be out of tune if the bar is placed incorrectly... even if you've got a nice vibrato. |
Rick Collins
Member From: Claremont , CA USA
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posted 07 April 2006 08:42 PM
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Rick, you're being facetious, no?
Yes. 
I forgot the emoticon.
I was serious once; but I can't remember when. |
Travis Bernhardt
Member From: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
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posted 07 April 2006 08:51 PM
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I thought the idea with fanned frets was something to do with allowing for thicker bass strings or something (the thicker the string, the longer the scale), not to accomodate the human hand. Hmm. -Travis |
Todd Weger
Member From: Safety Harbor, FLAUSA
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posted 08 April 2006 04:46 PM
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No - I think you're thinking of fretting fans. Those are the folks that come out to hear my band play, and keep wondering if I'll ever make it through an entire song without screwing something up!  ------------------
Todd James Weger --
1956 Fender Stringmaster T-8 (C6, A6, B11); 1960 Fender Stringmaster D-8 (C6, B11/A6); Regal resonator (C6); 1938 Epiphone Electar (A6); assorted ukuleles; upright bass
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Alan F. Brookes
Member From: Brummy living in California, USA
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posted 08 April 2006 07:28 PM
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You folks are missing the point. Yes, in the middle ages they had difficulty with string thicknesses and consistency of manufacture, but the idea of fanned frets is to replicate the movement of the human arm.Imagine your left arms as a windshield wiper. A windshield wiper sweeps in an arc because the length is unchangeable, and it rotates in a pivot. Our arms work the same way. If you move your arm up and down the fingerboard, whether you do it from the high side of the fingerboard (as on a banjo or guitar) or from the low side (steel guitar), your arm will automatically slant or slant the bar. Fanned Frets help compensate for the radius of the arm from the elbow. The other thing is something very important in photography if you don't use a single-lens reflex. Your viewfinder and lens don't have the same position, so you have a parralax error. This also occurs on the steel guitar. You're not looking along and above the bar, so where you perceive the bar to be relative to the frets is not where it really is. (Just sit in the passenger seat while you're wife is driving and ask her what speed she's going... the speedometer looks different from her location.) |
Ron Bednar
Member From: Rancho Cordova, California, USA
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posted 08 April 2006 10:09 PM
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Sorry Allen but I disagree with your last post.
The windshield wiper analogy is not correct. Our arms are not just single jointed like a windshield wiper, we also have wrists, elbo's and fingers. Sitting in standard lap steel position we can move the steel to incompass a severe arc in any direction we choose, if the guitar neck was shaped that way. Up, down, forward or backward, all quite naturally; while keeping the steel aligned to the strings in anyway we care to, straight, forward slant, reverse slant, tipped up, tipped down. Or we can, and do, move the steel in a piston like movement up and down the neck.
For a guitar to conform to the limited arc of the elbo only, it's neck would have to be formed to the shape that arc. That might look nice but what's the point? It couldn't be strung.
I don't see much validity in your arguement from a lap steel point of view. But from the resricted movement of the standard position fanned frets do make sense.Cheers, Ron
[This message was edited by Ron Bednar on 08 April 2006 at 10:12 PM.] |
Mitch Druckman
Member From: Arizona, USA
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posted 09 April 2006 08:12 AM
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As I understand it, the fanned fret system was developed in order to use a longer scale length for the low pitched strings and a shorter scale length for the high end. This concept is based on the design of a grand piano or a harp, and creates a fuller, clearer, and deeper low end, with better string separation when compared to a single scale length instrument.The ergonomics of a more natural wrist or hand position seemed to be more of an afterthought, and a way for the designers to sell their new concept. Due to players being scared off by the radical design, I believe they tried to justify the fanned fret system to the public by presenting it as more "natural". Although a fanned fret guitar or bass is very easy to get used to, most players still see it as too radical to deal with. That said, a multiple scale length steel would have better string separation and clearer sound than an otherwise identical standard steel, but I question the comfort of constant shifting forward and backward while moving up the fretboard. I also wonder how it would effect our ability to execute accurate slants. |
Mike D
Member From: Phx, Az
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posted 09 April 2006 10:17 AM
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What Mitch said. ------------------
Half-assed bottleneck and lap slide player. Full-assed Builder of resonator instruments.
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Matt Steindl
Member From: New Orleans, LA, USA
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posted 09 April 2006 10:38 AM
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I have a fanned fretted classical(nice brazilian rosewood too!!!!!!), More than any intonation issues, it creates a more relaxed/natural hand possition. Pretty wild if ya ever get to play one! |
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