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Author
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Topic: National New Yorker Questions
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Harry Sheppard
Member From: Kalispell, MT USA
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posted 01 May 2006 04:42 PM
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To you National New Yorker owners. Does anyone know of any other guitar, new or old, that will have the same tone as a 1938 vintage National New Yorker? Not the 1940s-1950s models. The 1938 model has the large split blade bridge pickup with the integrated bridge and 2 hidden pickups under the fretboard. I have tried dozens of Bakelites, frypans, Stringmasters, newer year New Yorkers, Sierra, supro, etc. to get that tone but nothing is even close. To my ears they are either way to bright or to boxy sounding. This New Yorker has an incredible amount of bass but the highs are clear and the mids are nice and full. I guess some could call it muddy but there is no harshness to the high end like the Ricks or Fenders can be. The output is very low and the pickups are extreamely microphonic which I think help give it the airy tone.I would like a double 7 string console but I don't know if any were made with this pickup combination. This model was the first to be called the "New Yorker" with the 3 way chimes, hawaiian, harp pickup selector and black/white only fret board and single volume control. Serial numbers begin with a "B" and are stamped into the end of the headstock. Maybe I just got a good one but I have yet to find a better sounding lap steel and I have had a few. Any thoughts? I'm tired of buying lap steels only to resell them because they don't sound right. Harry |
Al Terhune
Member From: Newcastle, WA
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posted 01 May 2006 10:54 PM
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Harry -- that's a tall order...a double 7 that has pickups and sounds just like your New Yorker. Seven and eight strings are overrated anyway...enjoy your one-of-a-kind sounding New Yorker six-stringer. Life's too short not to!Al |
Harry Sheppard
Member From: Kalispell, MT USA
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posted 02 May 2006 06:33 AM
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Thank Al but my New Yorker is a 7 string and I have seen D8s of this model before. |
John Billings
Member From: Northfield Center, Ohio, USA
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posted 02 May 2006 08:54 AM
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I really prefer 7-stringers myself. My late 30's Gibson Grande Console is a double 7. |
Garry Vanderlinde
Member From: Garden Grove, California, USA
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posted 04 May 2006 08:56 AM
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I've got a seven string National like that, serial# B3448. Gruhn's Guide dates it to 1937.
I've never played any guitar that sounds like it, took me a while to get used to it. It's got a real old, haunting type of tone. Like watching an old B/W movie.
What is the serial# on yours and what tuning are you using? |
John Bushouse
Member From:
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posted 04 May 2006 09:10 AM
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I've got a 7, and I believe it was a 35/36 in Gruhn's book (I can't recall offhand). It's a nice guitar, but way too noisy right now, even after a pot cleaning. I think my next step is to replace the pots, and perhaps get the pickups recharged. I have managed to pull it entirely apart to take a look at the front sets of pickups. Very cool design, in my book.I forgot to mention - mine is not a New Yorker, but an Electro-Hawaiian (or Electric-Hawaiian) - same look as the New Yorker. Four controls - overall volume, volume for the bridge pickup, volume for the treble sides of the middle and neck pickups, and volume for the bass sides of the middle and neck pickups. The neck and middle pickups are actually split pickups.[This message was edited by John Bushouse on 04 May 2006 at 09:13 AM.] |
Harry Sheppard
Member From: Kalispell, MT USA
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posted 04 May 2006 10:57 AM
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Garry,The SN on mine is B313x which is very close to yours and that is a very good description of the tone. I am using A6 witch works really well for this guitar. Now if I could only find another 7 string or a D7 I would be set. I have found a couple of 6 string models of the same year and have some pictures of an 8 string as well. If these were made in 1937-1938 there may not be any Double neck versions. I have seen a few D8 models but they look to be the next version of the New Yorkers Console with different pickups. John, Did you happen to take any pictures of the guitar while you had it appart? Mine has a noisy volume pot but I can't get it open to clean or replace it. The bridge pickup in mine is split blade but I have never seen the other 2. |
Garry Vanderlinde
Member From: Garden Grove, California, USA
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posted 04 May 2006 08:11 PM
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I sure would like to see some photos of one taken apart also. I was told that if you tried to take one apart that you would destroy it.
My pot was scratchy also so I used some potentiometer lube to fix the National pot, I put three or four drops down the pot shaft, allowing the lube to seep between the shaft and the threaded body. Then turn the shaft back and forth quickly and a lot. Tip the National upside down, on its side, etc as you turn the shaft back and forth. This will give the lube a chance to get to the spot where the scratchiness is occurring.
Then plug it in and see if the scratchiness is improving. If it's unchanged, or getting a little better, try a few more drops down the shaft and continue tipping the guitar and turning the shaft. Hopefully this will fix the problem. It might take a few days of tipping and turning to get the lube to coat the scratchy area. Good luck!  (Notice that this one is only in black and white with the Roman number fret markers in silhouette cutout). [This message was edited by Garry Vanderlinde on 04 May 2006 at 09:53 PM.] |
John Bushouse
Member From:
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posted 05 May 2006 04:49 AM
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Well, I poked around on my computer and came up with these pics. I didn't pull the pots (or try to), just disassembled the top.neck and middle pickups
bridge and middle pickups It appears that I didn't save any pictures with the shielding pulled back, but both the neck and the middle pickups are actually two pickups each - the treble sides of the neck and middle are wired together (controlled by the Full Treble volume knob) and the bass sides of the neck and middle are wired together (controlled by the Full Bass knob). "Natural/Haw." is the volume control for the bridge pickup. I don't know whether "Hawaiian" is with the volume all the way up, or all the way down. I assume it's with the volume up. Here's a couple of other pics: Full shot in case
Headstock in case
Body in case I had Gryphon work on the pots when I had it in for some nut work. Still scratchy, with volume drops.[This message was edited by John Bushouse on 05 May 2006 at 04:55 AM.] [This message was edited by John Bushouse on 05 May 2006 at 04:56 AM.] |
Garry Vanderlinde
Member From: Garden Grove, California, USA
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posted 05 May 2006 08:26 AM
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Great Photos! Thanks!The pot lube that worked for me is called CaiLube made by Caig Labs Inc. A small 25ml bottle costs around $25 dollars. It claims it can even repair the worn areas. |
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