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Author
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Topic: Contemporary Hawaiian Masters in G Major?
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Tim Tweedale
Member From: Vancouver, B.C., Canada
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posted 24 July 2006 11:20 AM
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From my listening experience, after the 1930s the C6 tuning became much more common than the G Major tuning for Hawaiian steel guitar.Are there any current professional Hawaiian steel players (acoustic or electric) who play mostly in the G Major tuning shape? -Tim |
Scott Thomas
Member From: Oregon, USA
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posted 24 July 2006 01:42 PM
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I believe Bob Brozman plays his acoustic Hawaiian guitars in low bass G major primarily.
(low to high: DGDGBD)
At least for his Hawaiian work.Ken Emerson also comes to mind. I am not really too familiar with his work , but I know he plays traditional acoustic Hawaiian and probably also uses G major a lot. |
basilh
Member From: United Kingdom
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posted 24 July 2006 03:31 PM
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Tim, the G Major was never "Common" pre the 30's.
The "Common" tuning was A Major followed by A 'High Bass'
IMHO------------------
quote:
Steel players do it without fretting
 
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Tim Tweedale
Member From: Vancouver, B.C., Canada
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posted 24 July 2006 04:08 PM
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Sorry, I meant to say "G Major shape" i.e. 135135. -Tim |
Ed Altrichter
Member From: Schroeder, Minnesota, USA
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posted 24 July 2006 04:11 PM
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So, when did GBDGBD start to come into common use, and by whom ? |
AJ Azure
Member From: Massachusetts, USA
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posted 24 July 2006 04:44 PM
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Bluegrass. when they tuned down |
Edward Meisse
Member From: Santa Rosa, California, USA
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posted 24 July 2006 09:16 PM
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I read somewhere that the symetrical tunings with the 5th on top, wether it's DBGDBG or E-C#-A-F#-E-C#-A-F#, but especially the 8 string A6 tuning-is/are known as orchestra tuning. |
Tim Tweedale
Member From: Vancouver, B.C., Canada
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posted 25 July 2006 12:37 AM
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So as for contemporary Hawaiian masters who play in A Major or G Major shapes... we've got Ken Emerson and Bob Brozman. Anyone else come to mind? -Tim |
basilh
Member From: United Kingdom
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posted 25 July 2006 01:06 AM
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Tim you said quote:
Sorry, I meant to say "G Major shape" i.e. 135135.
It is I who should be sorry, for not reading your post properly. Dumbo here should have understood just what you CLEARLY stated, when you said the G Major shape, to any fool (Except this one) it implies 135135. |
Les Cook
Member From: Derbyshire, UK
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posted 25 July 2006 03:58 AM
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Besides those players already mentioned these guys spring to mind : Robert Armstrong ,Al Dodge ,Ben Bonham (all in the US).Id guess that Rainer Woeffler (Sons of the Desert) in Gemany uses it and ,at least sometimes , probably Cyril Lefebvre in France |
Les Cook
Member From: Derbyshire, UK
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posted 25 July 2006 04:40 AM
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And I nearly forgot Alex Burns in Australia ...I would guess ,though haven't checked ,that he used open A or G tuning on his "Twilight Blues" album |
Bill Blacklock
Member From: Powell River, British Columbia, Canada
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posted 25 July 2006 08:25 AM
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Stacy Phillips plays exclusively in a high "G" tuing. His book "The Art of Hawaiian Steel Gultar" has many old Hawaiian tunes in a high "G" tuning. |
Scott Thomas
Member From: Oregon, USA
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posted 25 July 2006 10:26 AM
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I'm sure one of our resident historians would know, but I suspect that the very first Hawaiian players to take a steel bar (or pocket knife, or railroad spike?) to a spanish guitar and play lap style, did so in the G major i.e. "taro patch" slack key tuning. (listed in my post above) It is still the most common tuning used by players in that genre today. I too, would like to know when and why early steel players tuned it up to A major. Just as an aside . . .I don't know if he has recorded on the steel guitar yet, but I keep reading tantalizing references to contemporary slack key guitar master Ledward Ka'apana and his playing on his Hilo Hawaiian guitar. (A Weissenborn shaped guitar, with a round spanish neck.) No doubt he plays in G major "taro patch"? He is an amazing musician and must sound incredible. (By the way, the story goes that he found the Hilo guitar in a dumpster next to a Bay Area music store. When he asked why, an employee of the store explained that the action was so high on that guitar that no one could play it.)  |
Bill Creller
Member From: Saginaw, Michigan, USA
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posted 25 July 2006 10:54 AM
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The slack-key guys use G, among other tunings, and thats where the steel was derived from during 1800s. They like to let you know the slack key was first too!!
Don't know how A major got into the picture. |
Tim Tweedale
Member From: Vancouver, B.C., Canada
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posted 25 July 2006 11:08 AM
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Thanks for the replies everybody. So far the list for contemporary Hawaiian lap steel players who favour a G shape reads:Bob Brozman
Stacy Phillips
Ken Emerson
Robert Armstrong
Al Dodge
Ben Bonham
Rainer Woeffler
Cyril Lefevre
Alex Burns Can we add any Hawaiians to this list? -Tim |
basilh
Member From: United Kingdom
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posted 25 July 2006 11:23 AM
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Scott and Bill (Creller)
see this Folder :-
History of Slack Key and Hawaiian Guitar and these files :- Slack Key Myths etc Hawaiian Guitar History Baz.[This message was edited by basilh on 25 July 2006 at 11:25 AM.] |
basilh
Member From: United Kingdom
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posted 25 July 2006 11:50 AM
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quote:
Can we add any Hawaiians to this list?
Tim the short answer is NO.. and YES ..They didn't use the G based tuning, BUT they did use the 135135 format albeit in A.The score for the first Hawaiian Guitar solo played at the Iolani Palace with the Royal Hawaiian Band conducted and arranged by Henry Berger for the anniversary celebration of it's construction (Instigated by King David) in 1883 was written in the A tuning !!
Some TRUE fact about Henry Berger
He wrote amongst others,"Kohala March" although the Alii Luau CD and many other recordings dodge giving him the credit. If you read the pdf's in my previous post, you'll see just how the whole subject has been full of Myths and BS from 1916 onwards.
The rubbish about the Cowboys brought over by Kamehameha is just the tip of the iceberg. Only 3 cowboys who probably didn't even play guitar. Read the stories !!
It's accurately documentad as historical facts in various books, the internet amongst other forms of more modern communication has led to the present mixum-gatherum of mis-information. 
King David who revived the Hula.[This message was edited by basilh on 25 July 2006 at 12:07 PM.] |
basilh
Member From: United Kingdom
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posted 25 July 2006 12:36 PM
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Les Cook has a mine of information about the Hawaiian players in the same ilk as Sam Ku West from the early 1900's up to the early 1930's.
 web site Sam Ku West Project who the stars were before 1900 I don't know, but undoubtedly my friend John Marsden will. I'll 'phone him and find a few names to add.
[This message was edited by basilh on 25 July 2006 at 12:37 PM.] |
basilh
Member From: United Kingdom
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posted 25 July 2006 12:47 PM
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Gabriel Davion
Joseph Kekuku
Pale K. Lua
David K. Kaili
Sol Ho'opi'i
Sam Ku West
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Tim Tweedale
Member From: Vancouver, B.C., Canada
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posted 25 July 2006 01:08 PM
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Thank you, Basil! If the internet had a motto, it would be "Quantity over Veracity", so for your help in rooting out the facts, you have my immense gratitude! -Tim |
Bernard Beck
Member From: Paris France
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posted 02 August 2006 12:31 AM
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Here is my idea, not based on historical fact, about raising the tuning to A instead of leaving it to G.
Imagine, you have a regular guitar, tuned the spanish way, you lower the high E to D and get an open tuning of G (taking care of the bass notes afterwards). That really is the simplest way.
Afterwards you start to play slide, raise the strings so the fretboard is not in your way. You have a hawaïan guitar, tuned to G, but you have your original set of strings, so they are too loose, so you raise everything one step, tuning to A, and that hawaïan guitar starts to be fun to be played, and you did not spend a cent on buying new strings.
Of course, I do not mean this was the way it went, but I do think simple and practical reasons are always to be taken in consideration.
Ok, back to my picking, I'm just finishing up the A tuning section of the Jerry Byrd course, can't wait to go to the E tuning section !!!
Bernard |
Bill Creller
Member From: Saginaw, Michigan, USA
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posted 02 August 2006 07:19 PM
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Thanks for the info folder Baz.Lots of stuff I wasn't aware of. |
mikey
Member From: Hawaii, Big Island
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posted 04 August 2006 11:02 AM
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Most guys I know that play Acoustic steel play in Low Bass G (DGDGBD)for Hawaiian music...now I know one or 2 DOBRO players that started out playing bluegrass on the mainland and still play GBDGBD...I have Always played LOW G even on my dobro, occasionally I will tune my Weis to open C (CGCGCE)...and my National to Low bass A..but anyway, most acoustic players in Hawaii Tune "Taro Patch" Low bass G...and I think it's just a variant/mutation of 5 string Banjo tuning personally.
Mike[This message was edited by mikey on 05 August 2006 at 09:57 PM.] |
Mike D
Member From: Phx, Az
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posted 04 August 2006 11:11 AM
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Mikey do you mean (low to high) DGDGBD? Which is used in bottleneck playing and was often called 'Spanish' tuning by Blues players.
I use this tuning all the time, both for bottleneck and lap playing. Of course I'm not a well known Hawaiian player.  ------------------
Half-assed bottleneck and lap slide player. Full-assed Builder of resonator instruments.
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Bill Blacklock
Member From: Powell River, British Columbia, Canada
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posted 04 August 2006 01:18 PM
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When in a low "G" tuning I take that horrible low D string up to an E(6th), its out of the way until needed, EGDGBD. Works for me. |
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