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Author Topic:   working with electric guitarists
David Mason
Member

From: Cambridge, MD, USA

posted 22 May 2003 03:37 AM     profile   send email     edit
I lived in Austin for a period in the early and mid 80's, and it was full of great guitarists and live music then - that was the problem. Every bar owner could get a good band to play for peanuts, and even the "premium" gigs payed mediocre, because everyone was replaceable. One of the most famous bars in Austin was the Continental Club, right up the street from my house. Tiny place, black ceiling, black walls, black floor, the toilet often didn't work so people used the alley etc. I used to pay a $1.98 cover charge to see a hot young local picker named Stevie Ray Vaughn - before the Grammy. You're better off in a market where there aren't so many musicians, then they have to hire you.
Tony Prior
Member

From: Charlotte NC

posted 22 May 2003 03:46 AM     profile   send email     edit
Buddy sounds amazing with Danny Gatton..true

Buddy sounds amazing regardless..

Band leaders..most of them just have the title and don't or can't control the band..they just get the $$ at the end of the night and split it up...

Ok, what ever Tony in Texas is charging for playing guitar on a gig, I'll do it for $2 less...unless it's zero and I have to pay the $2...then he can have the gig...

Whats important here is that the guitar players name is TONY...

tp

[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 22 May 2003 at 03:47 AM.]

Tony LaCroix
Member

From: Austin, Texas, USA

posted 22 May 2003 06:42 AM     profile   send email     edit
Jim, David Mason pretty much summed up what happened to Austin. There are so many bands and so many musicians (esp. guitar players) that club owners often pay bands little more than free beer. This has led to a degeneration of showmanship on the local scene. Most bands have "rotating members" (I HATE that). In my opinion, the continental club is the best in town, but they charge outrageous covers. The other day, I talked the better half into going there to see Junior Brown. Got there and they wanted $22 bucks a piece! Mind you, it would have been every penny worth it, but we need to eat this month. One of the reasons I've taken up the pedal steel is to make myself marketable.

Just between us, I think Nashville is the live music capitol. Austin is the Mexican resaurant capitol.

Roger Rettig
Member

From: NAPLES, FL

posted 22 May 2003 08:51 AM     profile   send email     edit
I thought I'd learned the principal of staying out of the way until it was appropriate to play - then I got a gig with songwriter Sonny Curtis in the late-'80s.

Right from day one of rehearsal he made it clear what he wanted - space, clarity, sympathy with the material and rigid control of the overall volume level.

His songs were wonderful, and he's a fine guitarist - I've played with some monster musicians in my time, as well as in some exciting situations, but I don't think I've ever played in a better 'band'...

I don't suppose Sonny will get to read this, but I thank him for the experience - and the music lesson - anyway.

For the record it was: Sonny, me, Gerry Hogan on guitars and stuff, Brian Hodgson on Bass, Mike Bell on piano and Gerry Conway on drums - the BEST drummer I ever heard!

------------------
Roger Rettig

Mike Perlowin
Member

From: Los Angeles CA

posted 22 May 2003 08:54 AM     profile   send email     edit
L.A. has the same problem. There are thousands of great players who come here from all over the country to make it in "the biz' who wind up playing in clubs, and the pay has gone to practically nothing.

Last I heard, the best players in town were earning $35-40 a night. 25 years ago I was earning $50-60.

We also have a lot of very good Mexican restaurants. Do you think there may be a corrolation between Mexican food and too many guitar players competing for too few jobs?

Gene Jones
Member

From: Oklahoma City, OK USA

posted 22 May 2003 09:32 AM     profile     edit
In my early years, my day-job paid all the bills except there was no money left over for food. If I had a Saturday nite playing job my wife and I existed for another week.....if I worked both Friday and Saturday nite, we ate out....hamburgers, five for a dollar!

Gene
www.genejones.com

Jim Phelps
Member

From: Mexico City

posted 22 May 2003 12:24 PM     profile     edit
Yep, the biz is tough and it's tougher now than it was 20 years ago....some of you might remember a thread I started almost 2 years ago called "is live music what it used to be" (or something like that) and I think the overall consensus was NO. Hate to say it that even out here in Kansas I'm making much better than the pay mentioned, and more than I was finding in Las Vegas. Go figure. Well nobody said life was fair, but supply and demand sums up a lot of it. Can't wait to see what supply and demand for steel is in Mexico City. I'll be living about an hour outside the city but looking for music work in the city. I know there's almost no steel players there, sure will be interesting to find out whether there's a demand or indifference to steel guitar. I'll let y'all know...
James Morehead
Member

From: Durant, Oklahoma, USA

posted 29 May 2003 10:14 AM     profile   send email     edit
I had an opportunity to play with a feller,Larry Welborn, who as a kid, played garage bands with Buddy Holly before they formed up the Crickets. He also co-wrote some of the Buddy tunes. Anyways, the band etiquete was great when I played bass with Larry. The other pickers and I respected Larry's experience, and we had no stage problems. We got along best if we played "for the sake of making the song the best we could", and set egos aside.>>> In our area you can still play a few "Cut & Shoots" for about $40-$50 a man for a four piece. Whats killin' live bands around here is karioke.
Chris Forbes
Member

From: Beltsville, MD, USA

posted 30 May 2003 03:31 AM     profile   send email     edit
AAAAAAAAAAAAUUUUUUUURRRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHH!!!! He said the evil "K" word!!!!!!!!
David L. Donald
Member

From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

posted 30 May 2003 05:35 AM     profile   send email     edit
The K word is for people who have NO CHANCE
to ever actually make music on their own.

All us types that actually work hard at it...

Oh them boys jest do ma backin' tracks
so's ah kin be a a Staar en this here bar!

Andy Zynda
Member

From: Wisconsin

posted 30 May 2003 06:50 AM     profile   send email     edit
The K word.... grrrrr....
The last job that my band played was at a local club, and we had the place jumpin, packed in like sardines. It was a great night until.....
This moron bubble-head broad walks up to the band and tells us the song that she wants to sing.
(!)
I informed her that this is a band. We actually practice our instruments, learn chords, changes, harmonies, solos, transpositions. We then rehearse these songs till they are presentable to the public, and then keep polishing them as we perform, to be the best we can be as a BAND.
The friggin ditz was actually miffed that she and her "K" friends wouldn't be allowed anywhere near our gear, period.
It wasn't all that big a deal, but it left me profoundly PISSED (every time I think about it) that people have no idea how hard musicians have to work to sound good.
sorry, rant mode off....
-andy-
Chris Forbes
Member

From: Beltsville, MD, USA

posted 30 May 2003 07:37 AM     profile   send email     edit
Andy, sigh, I know exactly what you mean. It seems since the "K" word has been around, everyone assumes they can just waltz onto stage wherever and whenever. I actually had to give a drunk jerk the ol' heave ho off a stage a little while ago. He was mad cause we wouldn't let him sing with us (and to make it worse, he wanted to sing "Friends in Low Places", yech!!!!).
John Russell
Member

From: Austin, Texas

posted 31 May 2003 11:01 AM     profile   send email     edit
Guys, I share your pain.

On bright side: I played a party the other night for a co-worker who said she couldn't afford a DJ but had no trouble paying us $400 for three hours.

What's with these "K" guys anyway? Think they're artists or something?

It's not new. I knew of a couple of brothers back in the late '70s who assembled a massive sound system with fog machines, expensive lights and thousands of watts of power to play top 40 rock music on tape. These guys booked out for big bucks, used local "talent" agencies and toured the state. It was a lot of hype and hustle, about a 3-hour setup and tear down.

That mentality of more is better will never die. Several "country" acts around here do pretty much the same thing, only they actually play instruments. These bands mix George Strait, ZZ Top and rap in an entertainment package that is quite popular in the smaller towns between here and Houston. It doesn't really fly here in Austin, thank God though there are some fans.

Face it, the 18-25 year-old demographic wants anything big and loud. I try not to let it bug me, after all these years you see things come and go. There will always be an audience for talent, you just have to try harder, sometimes to get exposure. Don't give up. The synergy of talented players having a great time will prevail. --JR

Terry Downs
Member

From: Garland, TX US

posted 02 June 2003 09:33 PM     profile   send email     edit
This is a major sore spot for me. I feel that the ethics for playing with others has drifted away with the times. I am amazed that it is not totally obvious to everyone on a country music stage the method of sharing fills and backing vocalists (what John Steele said).

I began playing guitar at age 5, and was playing in bands at age 10. I had the same problem of hogging the fills and over playing only by human nature. I have never been selfish person by nature, so why was I doing this? It is a natural response. I was fortunate enough to have a mature caring musician figure in my life to beat this concept into my head. I believe it take mentoring to fix this problem.

Most of you guys on the forum are seasoned mature musicians. I challenge you to have critical discussions with your co-players. If I did not have that type of guidance, I could very well be one of those guitar HOGS still today. I would like to think I could discover it on my own, but who knows.

You can learn all you want about music and technique, but you are not acceptable in the market if you don't know when NOT to play.

I scanned in the text from the last page of the "Roy Wiggins Steel Guitar Course" from 1948. Please read this and note its simplistic wording. Over a half century has passed, but it is advice every musician should know up front.


PRACTICE - This is something most everyone falls short on. But is is very important. Especially as a beginner, practice is very necessary. I would suggest at least an hour or two a day so as not to forget what you have learned and to learn new things. A good way to learn about new things and improve your tone is to listen to records that have steel guitar players on them. The most of these fellows are good. And it will help you considerably. Another thing of importance is, as you proceed along, do not get ahead of yourself. Take one thing at time till you get that one thing down, then proceed along to another. This is very hard to do, because it is human nature for a person to overestimate his or herself . Thus trying to do something they are not quite capable of doing quite so fast. Now that doesn't mean they are not to progress, but to do so according to your own ability. So many of our steel players do try to play beyond their ability. Remember to proceed slowly and patiently, because the steel guitar isn't as easy to play as it looks.
No matter how simple you play, play that good.

TOUCH - This is where your ability really shows up. Remember to touch the strings lightly and easily. Always playing softly.

FILL IN - Remember when backing up a singer do not drown them out but to play in the vacant spots. Also, if you play with a group, do not let everyone a back up the singer at once. Let another instrument play one chorus and you another. Play softly, or not at all during the other instruments fill in. This prevents' the clashing of instruments.

Tone, volume, equipment, practice, touch, and the ability to fill-in are the most important things to remember in the playing of the steel guitar.
I hope this book in some way has helped you. And I thank you very much.

Your Steel Guitar Friend,
ROY WIGGINS.


James Morehead
Member

From: Durant, Oklahoma, USA

posted 04 June 2003 02:55 PM     profile   send email     edit
Terry, good article with great advice!! There seems to always be room for improvement.(speaking for my self!!)
Chris Scruggs
Member

From: Nashville, Tennessee, USA

posted 07 June 2003 10:30 PM     profile   send email     edit
Tastaful country guitarists? One name...

BILLY BYRD!!!

Nice bright, single string melody lines, like country guitar outta be.

Chris Scruggs
Member

From: Nashville, Tennessee, USA

posted 07 June 2003 10:31 PM     profile   send email     edit
Tastaful country guitarists? One name...

BILLY BYRD!!!

Nice bright, single string melody lines, like country guitar outta be.


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