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  The Steel Guitar Forum
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  Push-Pull Bell Crank Idea

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Author Topic:   Push-Pull Bell Crank Idea
Craig A Davidson
Member

From: Wisconsin Rapids, Wisconsin USA

posted 29 October 2004 05:38 PM     profile     
Has anybody thought of or designed bell cranks to retro-fit on a push-pull without having to remove the cross shaft to get them on? Wouldn't two half-moon pieces that fasten together work? Then set screw them into the shaft? Just thinking here. The worst part of changing set-ups is having to almost disassemble the guitar.

------------------
1985 Emmons push-pull,Evans SE200,Hilton pedal

Carlos Polidura
Member

From: Brooklyn, New York, USA

posted 29 October 2004 06:15 PM     profile     
yes, i too thought of the very same idea. i got my first p/p last year after dealing with pedal steel guitars for almost 35 years. this is probably the only area that a p/p could be improved ( talking about the emmons p/p). i know what i'm talking about... i restored my own guitar. i know what it is to take everything apart and then put it together.
IS THERE SOMEONE OUT THERE THAT CAN COME UP WITH AN IDEA??????
IS THERE SOMEONE OUT THERE WHO WOULD BE WILLING TO MAKE THESE PARTS???
i wish i had the means to do it.
thank you,
carlos
Ray Minich
Member

From: Limestone, New York, USA

posted 29 October 2004 07:53 PM     profile     
Ze problemo is that the cost could be a lot more than one is willing to pay a machinist to make just a couple. If a guy was gonna make a couple hundred or thousand at a time one could tool up a HAAS multi-axis CNC Vertical machine to shape/form/drill & tap some aluminum. Or make some jigs. Making two or three they could cost $35-$50 each at a machine shop. I just paid $75 for a carved up chunk of 6061-T6 aluminum with about the same amount of machining req'd as you're talking about here. Finding a chunk of aluminum extrusion with that profile would make a good start.
richard burton
Member

From: Britain

posted 29 October 2004 11:14 PM     profile     
The underside of my PP is not a pretty sight, because every time I alter something I always find a way to do it without a major stripdown. There's all sorts of home-made bellcranks, mostly 1/2 moon with 2 clamping screws, there's all sorts of springs and elastic bands to make it physically easier to play, there's even a wrist lever cobbled on to it.
R B.
Carlos Polidura
Member

From: Brooklyn, New York, USA

posted 30 October 2004 04:51 AM     profile     
of course rary. i'm aware of this problem. i was just dearing someone to do it. actually, the cost of one bell crank is about thirty to fourty dollars for a used one in any condition... if you can find it. we are lucky to have "emmons guitar co". who still have some original parts available.
the makers of "promat steel guitars" may also have parts for sale.
thanks,
carlos
Ron Steenwijk
Member

From: Greensburg,PA

posted 30 October 2004 05:58 AM     profile     
Carlos

I am not sure if the parts that Dusan Papic is making will fit the PP build by Emmons.You should contact Bobbe Seymour or Damir Basic for that matter.


Ron

Nikaro SD10 4x6

Carlos Polidura
Member

From: Brooklyn, New York, USA

posted 30 October 2004 06:28 AM     profile     
thank you ronald....
you may be correct.
carlos
Chick Donner
Member

From: North Ridgeville, OH USA

posted 30 October 2004 09:55 AM     profile     
Such a bellcrank has been out there for years. Did not work very well. Check with Bob Seymour for particulars. I believe he has a couple in his desk drawer.
BobbeSeymour
Member

From: Hendersonville TN USA

posted 31 October 2004 03:21 PM     profile     
Yea, a couple a' thousand of them. After market but much better than the originals.
Many guys have taken all the origials off there P-P guitars and replaced them with the "aftermarket" parts that I have. Much in the same way California hot rodders like Offenhauser, Edelbrock, American Racing, and MagSpark do to get more power and endurence from Factory built Detroit engines.
This is the way of the future for classic older steel guitars, look at the thousands of "after market" parts available for Fender Telecasters, Gibson Les Pauls etc. Even the Original equipment manufactures and the factories themselves buy Bill Lawrence and Geo.L. pickups and install them on new guitars from the factory. Most steel guitar builders farm out the building of their parts anyway, they just assemble. So, all of their parts are "after market"? Not all, but a lot are.
So, their is no reason that I can see why there should ever be a parts problem for such a poplar "classic guitar".
Somebody is gonna' havem'.
BobbeSeymour
Member

From: Hendersonville TN USA

posted 31 October 2004 03:41 PM     profile     
My advise is to make sure in buying a old steel guitar that it is truly a "Desirable classic", a very popular model.
If you try to restore a '47 Nash President auto, you'll have a lot more trouble finding parts than you would for a '55 Chev, or a '65 Mustang.
Getting parts for a 30 year old Emmons P-P
is going to be a lot easier than getting them for a '69 Mar-Len or a '78 Dek-lee.
In buying classic steel guitars, just remember, they are classics because so many players want them today and are willing to pour love, money and time into them. Just like the '32 Ford, '57 Chevy, '65 mustang, ETC., Also remember, a restored '69 Shelby is worth a lot more than a restored '69 Ford Pickup truck, but the cost to restore them is the same.
So if you want a good old steel guitar, some models of the Sho-Bud are good investments, All P-P Emmons are great restoration values, ZBs are still coming along in value, Bigsbys have gone through the roof in value, and that's about it at the moment.
I sell many guitars a week and have a great grasp on the values that you guys dictate by your buying habits, emails, and phone calls, etc.

You set the values, I don't, I just watch them as close as I can. This is something I need to know to be of good service to you all.

bobbe

BobbeSeymour
Member

From: Hendersonville TN USA

posted 01 November 2004 06:46 AM     profile     
Is anyone reading this?
Carlos Polidura
Member

From: Brooklyn, New York, USA

posted 01 November 2004 08:00 AM     profile     
yes bobbe.
i am.
but, are we able to have all the other parts like brackets, screws and so on?
thanks
carlos
Herb Steiner
Member

From: Cedar Valley, Travis County TX

posted 01 November 2004 08:29 AM     profile     
I'm reading this too. Hey Bobbe.

The question is really not about the recreation of the Emmons original bellcrank, but how to make a removeable bellcrank, like we now have on modern AP guitars, that would work on a PP.

Mike Cass and I have discussed this several times. There were attempts that didn't work out so well. The problem seems to be the round crossbar. The square shape, like those crossbar on today's guitars that fit with a stamped bellcrank, prevents the crank from spinning on the shaft. It also allows easy slip-on and slip-off.

------------------
Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association


BobbeSeymour
Member

From: Hendersonville TN USA

posted 01 November 2004 09:37 AM     profile     
OK, I'll do it. I have a great design for this part and a wonderful machine shop to build it. I cannot use the name of the guitar it will be installed on and be built for, I'll only refer to it as "The P-P" (or Push-Pull" guitar).
Give me a small amount of time and count on this being done. This part, along with several other "improvement parts" that I will be building, won't infringe on any previous company patents. Everything I build will not affect the tone or playability of this P-P guitar, but will make modifying, maintenance and servicing much easier and the guitar more dependable.
Thank you guys for letting me know you need this part.
bobbe

[This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 01 November 2004 at 09:43 AM.]

BobbeSeymour
Member

From: Hendersonville TN USA

posted 01 November 2004 10:08 AM     profile     
Carlos, Yes, all these parts will be available and sold as "after market parts" just like the auto parts guys do it.
There will be a "brand name" for these parts, possibly my name , possibly not.
I'd feel funny selling my "Bobbe's Slip on Cranks", or Bobbe's "snap in parts" using my name. Know what I mean?
Thank you Carlos.

bobbe

Carlos Polidura
Member

From: Brooklyn, New York, USA

posted 01 November 2004 10:25 AM     profile     
yes bobbe.
of course i do. just keep us posted with all you may have available for sale.
thanks
carlos
David Doggett
Member

From: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA

posted 01 November 2004 10:46 AM     profile     
Oh yeah, we're reading this. Bobbe, while you're designing the slip on crank, make some with different lengths, or with more than one pull-rod slot, so we can adjust the length and feel of the pull. If you build it, they will come.
Craig A Davidson
Member

From: Wisconsin Rapids, Wisconsin USA

posted 01 November 2004 12:41 PM     profile     
Go for it Bobbe.

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