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Author
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Topic: Fender 400
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Charlie McDonald
Member From: Lubbock, Texas, USA
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posted 22 July 2005 10:04 AM
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There's a '58, solid nut and bridge, 4 pedal eight-string available. Those of you that have owned one, what did you think about it at the time?
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Donny Hinson
Member From: Balto., Md. U.S.A.
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posted 22 July 2005 10:40 AM
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Given it's changer limitations (single raise/lower, and only 2 strings per pedal), and the fact that it has a non-roller bridge/nut, it's a very simple and reliable machine. The two big advantages are the ease of setup, and it's unique sound. |
Bob Carlucci
Member From: Candor, New York, USA
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posted 22 July 2005 11:44 AM
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Charlie, from conversations with you, and knowing what you are after, the early 400 may work for you... They are NOTORIOUS string snappers if you try and tune them to E9... If you tune them down a tone to D9 they are easier on strings.... I would still try and get a later one... They are notorious for NOT breaking strings,NO cabinet drop, and still have that lovely Fender tone... Fender 400 steels are getting ridiculous. I bid on one yesterday, it wound up at $1160 with something stupid like 60 bids... They are fast approaching The price of a modern much more practical pedal steel. If you are interested in a Fender 800[10 string pedal steel],I know a forumite that has one he may want to sell.. I'll put you in touch if you'd like... The money he's asking is reasonable .. bob |
John Daugherty
Member From: Rolla, Missouri, USA
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posted 22 July 2005 11:55 AM
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Charlie, they can break strings where the string goes through the hole in the changer. When I used a 400,I put the "hog-ring" adaptors in the changer "string-holes" to minimize breakage. They were available at music stores and from Fender. You could make them yourself.
A mini butane torch and solder also comes in handy for times when the cable breaks at the pulley.
Keep in mind that I was playing my 400 6-7 nights a week when I had to repair it. It got a lot of use. All in all, The 400 is a well built guitar. |
Bill Hatcher
Member From: Atlanta Ga. USA
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posted 22 July 2005 12:42 PM
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No roller no want it. |
John Poston
Member From: Albuquerque, NM, USA
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posted 22 July 2005 02:40 PM
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I also saw a 400 with 4 on the floor go for under $400 a month or so ago, so who knows at any point what you'll have to pay for one.Great great guitars but require a lot of comprimises of the modern copedants and get ready to mash those pedals hard. |
Donny Hinson
Member From: Balto., Md. U.S.A.
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posted 22 July 2005 08:12 PM
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John D., to the best of my knowledge, if there's old style guitars out there without those wire loops in the changer, it's because some fool took 'em out or lost 'em!The sharp angle that results when you put the string directly through the changer hole would actually invite string breakage. I can't believe that as clever as Leo Fender was, he would have ever designed it to work that way.[This message was edited by Donny Hinson on 22 July 2005 at 08:13 PM.] |
Jim Sliff
Member From: Hermosa Beach California, USA
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posted 22 July 2005 10:57 PM
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I bid early and am tracking that one on eBay. There are some other odd things about it as well, and the guy doesn't have access to it to answer any questions.Looks like a kind of crapshoot. |
Billy Carr
Member From: Seminary, Mississippi USA
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posted 23 July 2005 12:56 AM
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I was able buy a 400 off Ebay for 474.00. I had to order legs for it. I also changed the color which was blue to a sandstone tan. I took it apart kept the original pick up, putting it back in place after the paint had dried. I converted it over to a non-pedal guitar which I will put the E13th tuning on it. I've been wondering if the wire loops were supposed to have a cover over them or if they were supposed to be in plain view. |
Charlie McDonald
Member From: Lubbock, Texas, USA
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posted 23 July 2005 03:17 AM
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Thank you, gentlemen, for your useful responses; I got some good general information. I think this one is for a guy experienced in fixing up steels, not necessarily good for a starter. I did a search; roller nuts appeared a few years later. Good luck, Jim, hope the price stays down, but it could be one of those last minute things. |
John Daugherty
Member From: Rolla, Missouri, USA
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posted 23 July 2005 06:14 AM
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Donny, I bought 2 Fender 400s in the L.A. area in the early 1960s. Neither guitar had the hog rings with it. I bought some rings from a music store and added them. Maybe the later models came equipped with the rings.
Or, like you said,maybe someone at the music store lost them.[This message was edited by John Daugherty on 23 July 2005 at 06:17 AM.] |
Jim Sliff
Member From: Hermosa Beach California, USA
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posted 23 July 2005 06:56 AM
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Charlie - I actually worked up a deal on a more modern 400, so I'll probably stay out of it unless there's no movement. If it stays low, it could be a fun project, but I don't have a lot of experience with them either. Be warned the seller doesn't either! |
Donny Hinson
Member From: Balto., Md. U.S.A.
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posted 23 July 2005 07:15 AM
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quote:
I've been wondering if the wire loops were supposed to have a cover over them or if
they were supposed to be in plain view.
The "loops" were covered by a bridge cover which just snapped onto the ends of the metal-rod bridge. As this wasn't very secure, it had a habit of falling off. Almost half of the early guitars I've seen recently have no bridge covers, and Fender (in all their blind stupidity) never saw fit to continue to stock them for very long after the new design steels came out. |
Bill Ford
Member From: Graniteville SC Aiken
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posted 23 July 2005 01:45 PM
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An added note on the "hog rings", if you bend the one on G# up about 35 degres ( make the bend in the center),it will raise the stringball to less of an angle over the bridge,and help on string breakage. I had a 59/60s model, and did this.(3in1 oil helps also)Bill |
Jim Sliff
Member From: Hermosa Beach California, USA
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posted 23 July 2005 07:53 PM
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Pardon my ignorance - but what are "Hog Rings"? |
Charlie McDonald
Member From: Lubbock, Texas, USA
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posted 24 July 2005 03:29 AM
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Jim, my question exactly. I thought it was a biker term. |
Joey Ace
Sysop From: Southern Ontario, Canada
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posted 24 July 2005 03:48 AM
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I believe they are little metal rings that originally look like a C, but are pinched shut with a tool to look like an O.Small ones are used in Leather Craft. Larger Hog Rings are used in Chain Linnk Fences. I feel a Fender 400 in not the right instrument for a beginner who wants to learn modern Steel Guitar, just as a classic Harley is not a good choice for a new rider.
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Charlie McDonald
Member From: Lubbock, Texas, USA
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posted 24 July 2005 03:51 AM
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Joey, I've come to the same conclusion.
When you don't know what hog rings are... well, let's say you're lacking a little experience, and a Carter Starter might be better.
Thanks.
(I knew what a hog ring was. Really.) |
Jody Carver
Member From: The Knight Of Fender Tweed~ Dodger Blue Forever
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posted 24 July 2005 03:54 AM
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Hey Guys
Hog Rings are a "buzz word these days" LF referred to them as "pig tails". |
Jim Sliff
Member From: Hermosa Beach California, USA
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posted 24 July 2005 06:40 AM
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I had already figured out that they were a metal ring of some sort. I guess my question was more" what are hog rings used for and how do the attach...and are they required. If so, on *which* instruments. |
John Daugherty
Member From: Rolla, Missouri, USA
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posted 25 July 2005 06:12 AM
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Yes, the "hog rings" as I call them, are a "C" shaped piece of hard steel wire that slid into the hole in the changer. The string ball was held by the other end of the "C". My first act when I got my 400s was to take off the bridge covers and throw them away. I couldn't rest my hand near the bridge with that in place. If you ever owned a "tele", you know what I mean. |
Bob Tuttle
Member From: San Angelo, Tx, USA
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posted 25 July 2005 06:46 AM
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The original "hog rings" were "C" shaped heavy wire, pointed on the ends, and a tool similar to a pair of pliers was used to clamp the ring into the edge of a hogs nose to keep it from rooting under the fence and getting out of the pen. When the hog would start rooting in the dirt, it would hurt his nose....... Automotive upholstery shops use these to secure new seat covers underneath the edge of the seat. |
John Bechtel
Member From: Nashville, Tennessee,U.S.A.
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posted 25 July 2005 07:33 AM
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I was going to mention the Auto Trim Shop, but; Bob T. beat me to it! They aren't exactly o shaped, but rather (Oval = O) shapped w/one side open.  ------------------
“Big John” Bechtel
’04 SD–10 Black Derby w/3 & 5 & Pad
’49-’50 Fender T–8 Custom
’65 Re-Issue Fender Twin–Reverb Custom™ 15” Eminence
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Bill Ford
Member From: Graniteville SC Aiken
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posted 25 July 2005 11:06 AM
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Picture a link, out of a logging chain with part of the straight side removed,reduced to scale to fit the changer. Bill[This message was edited by Bill Ford on 25 July 2005 at 11:07 AM.] |
Jim Sliff
Member From: Hermosa Beach California, USA
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posted 25 July 2005 12:36 PM
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Great explanations!I could see where they were missing on that guitar. The seller also had no idea if it had cables underneath, so it could have beeen converted to rods of some sort. Definitely a project guitar. At the price, glad I missed it. |
Alvin Blaine
Member From: Sandy Valley, Nevada, USA
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posted 26 July 2005 10:28 PM
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quote:
I feel a Fender 400 in not the right instrument for a beginner who wants to learn modern Steel Guitar, just as a classic Harley is not a good choice for a new rider.
Now you tell me!
I learned to play steel on a Fender 400 and learned to ride on a '66 Harley shovelhead. |
Charlie McDonald
Member From: Lubbock, Texas, USA
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posted 27 July 2005 03:55 AM
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There's something to be said for the school of hard knocks. |
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