Steel Guitar Strings
Strings & instruction for lap steel, Hawaiian & pedal steel guitars
http://SteelGuitarShopper.com
Ray Price Shuffles
Classic country shuffle styles for Band-in-a-Box, by BIAB guru Jim Baron.
http://steelguitarmusic.com

This Forum is CLOSED.
Go to bb.steelguitarforum.com to read and post new messages.


  The Steel Guitar Forum
  Pedal Steel
  Fender pedal steel - newbee

Post New Topic  
your profile | join | preferences | help | search

next newest topic | next oldest topic
Author Topic:   Fender pedal steel - newbee
Jan Oelbrandt
Member

From: Herzele, Belgium

posted 04 October 2005 12:55 AM     profile     
Hi. I'm a newbee to pedal steel. I bought one just five days ago, and I'm crazy about it. However, I have some questions. The first one will be a breeze for you guys: which model is my pedal? The shop where I bought it knew nothing about it... Here's a picture:

My second question: it is tuned in E9, but there is one difference with the pedal function compared to the chart I found on b0b.com: the knee pedal tunes the low E string to D#, instead of tuning the low D string to C#. Is this somewhat common, or is it a mistake of the previous owner?
For who it may intrest: on the picture (link above) is a trio of my resonator guitars in the back...
Tnx for all the help & replies

------------------

[This message was edited by Jan Oelbrandt on 08 December 2006 at 03:04 AM.]

HowardR
Member

From: N.Y.C.,N.Y.

posted 04 October 2005 05:01 AM     profile     
If it has one knee lever, it's the student model. Since it doesn't appear to have a raised neck, that would also tell me that it's a student.

It has been refinished and although not original anymore, it certainly looks better.

Rainer Hackstaette
Member

From: Bohmte, Germany

posted 04 October 2005 06:26 AM     profile     
Jan, that is a Fender Artist student model, built by Sho-Bud around 1975/76, and practically identical to the Sho-Bud Maverick. In fact, it could also be a Maverick with a plaque from a Fender amp. A Fender Artist would have a black metal fretboard with white rectangles as fret markers, a Maverick a black plastic fretboard with raised frets and card symbols as markers. In any case it has been refinished. The Fenders were black, the Mavericks walnut burl.

The one knee lever should lower string 2 D# to D and string 8 E to D#.

Rainer

------------------
Remington, Sierra, Emmons PP, Fender Artist, Sho~Bud

HowardR
Member

From: N.Y.C.,N.Y.

posted 04 October 2005 06:54 AM     profile     
quote:
In fact, it could also be a Maverick with a plaque from a Fender amp.


I believe the Sho Buds had their standard keyhead which was affixed to the top of the body. The Fenders had their tuning pans sunk into the body and if you looked underneath, you can see the bottom of the pan (on the student model only).

This appears to have the sunken pan.

[This message was edited by HowardR on 04 October 2005 at 06:56 AM.]

David Doggett
Member

From: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA

posted 04 October 2005 10:39 AM     profile     
Au contraire, later Sho-Bud Mavericks had the Fender style ash-tray key heads, the same as the professional model Sho-Bud Fenders. However, Mavericks had brown fake-wood vinly covering, and I believe they had crinkle-coat black end-plates, but maybe not all of them. It's hard to tell from the photo, but this one appears to have real wood grain and inlay. That, and the Fender logo, Fender fret board, and the aluminum enplates indicate a Fender student model. However, it might be possible to strip the vinyl off a Maverick, give it a natural finish and inlays, and put a Fender fret board on it - but that seems doubtful.
Rainer Hackstaette
Member

From: Bohmte, Germany

posted 04 October 2005 01:50 PM     profile     
David, you're right: the shape of the endplate (trapezoid front instead of rectangular) is definately Fender. It's a refinished Artist student model.
HowardR
Member

From: N.Y.C.,N.Y.

posted 04 October 2005 02:29 PM     profile     
quote:
later Sho-Bud Mavericks had the Fender style ash-tray key heads


"I did not know that"......

Bobby Lee
Sysop

From: Cloverdale, North California, USA

posted 04 October 2005 02:33 PM     profile     
Congratulations on your first pedal steel, Jan.

On student models of that era, it was common practice to combine the most important pulls of the D and E levers into a single lever. The lever should lower the 2nd string D# to D, and the 8th string E to D#.

You will probably not use the 2nd and 8th string together very often. The knee lever can produce an interesting blues chord (B7#9 with the second pedal engaged), but that's not really its intended use.

------------------
Bobby Lee (a.k.a. b0b) - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Williams D-12 E9, C6add9, Sierra Olympic S-12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop S-8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster D-8 (E13, C6 or A6)   My Blog

Jan Oelbrandt
Member

From: Herzele, Belgium

posted 05 October 2005 02:35 AM     profile     
wow... thanks guys for all the replies.
It surprises me a great deal that this pedal would have been refinished. There's really NO trace of that. Take a look at these detail photos..., you'll agree. Maybe Fender finished the European models in natural, and the USA models in black? Not the first time they made a difference when producing export-models.
Also thanks for the tuning advice, the right pedal causes a slight detune-problem anyway when used: it slightly raises the high B string. I'm still trying to fix that.

------------------

Rainer Hackstaette
Member

From: Bohmte, Germany

posted 05 October 2005 07:11 AM     profile     
Jan, the front apron with the inlay and the top deck with the profiled edge is definately not Fender. The Fenders didn't have profiled decks or inlays. Somebody made a new deck and apron, maybe even a whole new body. I have to say it looks a whole lot better than the original!

The Artist series guitars came in 2 colors: black and "walnut burl", a swirly reddish-brown stain on maple. Three different models were made: the student ten, the professional single ten, and the professional double ten. I have never seen a student model other than in black.

As far as export models for the European market are concerned: there is no pedal steel market in Europe. The few hundred steelers in all of Europe are no "market" by any stretch of the imagination, and therefore no builder would make "export models" - sorry!

By the "right" pedal, you mean your C pedal? It is supposed to raise the B (5th) string all the way to C# along with the E (4th) string to F#. If that was a typo and you meant that it raises your high G# (3rd) string slightly: it's not supposed to do that. Maybe something is binding at the changer, perhaps a ball-end from a broken string. Use a flashlight to look into the changer. If you step on the C-pedal and the finger of the 3rd string moves ever so slightly, something is binding in the pull train - at the changer or along the pull rods to the bellcranks.

Rainer

[This message was edited by Rainer Hackstaette on 05 October 2005 at 07:14 AM.]

Bobby Lee
Sysop

From: Cloverdale, North California, USA

posted 05 October 2005 08:16 AM     profile     
I agree with Rainer. There are some Fender parts on this guitar, but the body doesn't look like any Fender pedal steel I've seen. Maybe someone trashed a Fender Artist for parts and built this. It's actually a lot nicer than a Fender!
Per Berner
Member

From: Skövde, Sweden

posted 05 October 2005 08:29 AM     profile     
The emblem seems a bit too big to be original, it looks like it came off an amp to me. Really nice wood; a huge improvement on vinyl (or Fender's ghastly sunburst, for that matter). Anyway, congratulations to a pretty starter!

------------------
´75 Emmons p/p D10 8+4, '96 Emmons Legrande II D10 8+5, Peavey Nashville 1000

David Doggett
Member

From: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA

posted 05 October 2005 08:40 AM     profile     
I am not familiar with the Fender Artist, but both the body, finish and the undercarriage look like a custom made professional model. The full width cross-rods, bell cranks, solid pull rods, and side rails are definitely professional quality, and nothing like the coat hanger mechanism of the Maverick. To me this looks like a custom Sho-Bud Fender professional single-neck, although some of the custom work might have been done after market. For about a year or so, Sho-Bud made professional D10 Fenders with lacquer bodies (stained wood grain, not sunburst), professional quality changers and undercarriage, and ash-tray key heads. This looks like a single-neck version, with some after-market custom work. Jan, could you give us a picture of the top and bottom of the changer? This is a question for Ricky Davis and Bobbe Seymour.

[This message was edited by David Doggett on 05 October 2005 at 08:49 AM.]

Clyde Lane
Member

From: Glasgow, Kentucky, USA

posted 05 October 2005 09:14 AM     profile     
It has rollers at the nut. The cross rods and bellcranks are Fender/Sho-Bud as used on all later Buds. Need a picture of the underside of the changer to see if it is a pull/release. Good looking woodwork.
Clyde Lane
Rainer Hackstaette
Member

From: Bohmte, Germany

posted 05 October 2005 02:54 PM     profile     
Fender Artist s-10 Student model
- no neck
- no aluminum block under tuning pan and changer/pickup assembly
- no adjustable legs

Undercarriage:

Fender Artist S-10 Professional:

Undercarriage:

Fender Artist D-10 Professional "walnut burl"

Undercarriage:

Rainer

------------------
Remington, Sierra, Emmons PP, Fender Artist, Sho~Bud

David Doggett
Member

From: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA

posted 05 October 2005 08:58 PM     profile     
Okay, I think Rainer has cleared this up, and Bobbe Seymour concurs (over on the other thread I opened to catch his attention). It looks like a Fender Artist student model that has been refinished, or may even have a whole new body. Don't know about the changer, but the rest of the undercarriage looks like very good quality for a student model - way better than a Maverick.

[This message was edited by David Doggett on 05 October 2005 at 09:02 PM.]

Jan Oelbrandt
Member

From: Herzele, Belgium

posted 06 October 2005 12:39 AM     profile     
Hi again. Here's some more pictures some of you asked for: details (top view) of the changer and tuners, and the changer (bottom view).
And, Rainer: it was a typo. I meant the C pedal (foot pedal, outer right side). It raises the 4th and 5th, as you said, but after pushing it and returning, it leaves the 5th B string in a slightly higher pitch.

[This message was edited by Jan Oelbrandt on 06 October 2005 at 12:42 AM.]

Rainer Hackstaette
Member

From: Bohmte, Germany

posted 06 October 2005 01:01 AM     profile     
Some interesting info on the history of the Fender Sho-Buds can be found here - note especially Bobbe Seymour's posts on the subject.

The student and the pro models are technically identical: the same changer (2R/2L, knife-edge blade instead of an axle), the same tuning pan/keyhead with roller nut, the same pickups, and an undercarriage that became the guts of the Sho-Bud Super Pro models. The pedals, knee levers, hex cross bars, pullers/bellcranks and pullrods are Super Pro, and the same in all Artist models. (Incidentally, this is where the infamous pot metal parts were first used, except in the changer.)

The differences between the pro and student model are mainly cosmetic:
- the pro had a raised neck, the student didn't
- the pro had aluminum blocks under the tuning pan and the changer/pickup assembly, the student didn't
- the pro had adjustable legs, the student had tube legs
- the pro came in two colors: black and walnut burl, the student only in black

The student had 3 pedals and 1 knee lever, the pro had 3 pedals and 4 knee levers. The D-10 pro had 8 pedals and 4 knee levers.
The student is indeed a lean pro, just like the Emmons Black Rock is a lean P/P.

The Fender Sho-Buds sound like a Fender and play like a Bud. Definately a serious guitar!

Rainer

------------------
Remington, Sierra, Emmons PP, Fender Artist, Sho~Bud

Frank Parish
Member

From: Nashville,Tn. USA

posted 06 October 2005 01:51 AM     profile     
Rainer is exactly right on this one. I bought a guitar identical to the black one shown above for my step son to learn on this past year. Although the guitar is somewhat limited for lack of knee levers, it has terrific tone like the old Fender 400's, a lot like the old Mooney sound. I put a new set of strings on the guitar and sat and played it for a good long time. You'll have to retune it a little more but the pedal action is as smooth or smoother than my late model
Carter and it has that old Fender tone. Talk about light weight! For the guys that love that Mooney tone and want it light weight too, this guitar can get the job done. You'll have to slant the bar for the lack of the F lever but really you can do a lot with it. Put three more knees on it and you're downtown.
Jan Oelbrandt
Member

From: Herzele, Belgium

posted 06 October 2005 02:02 AM     profile     
how bout this: I only paid 400 euros for it. (about 336 USD)
Rainer Hackstaette
Member

From: Bohmte, Germany

posted 06 October 2005 04:04 AM     profile     
Jan, that's a great price! About the C-pedal problem:

quote:
after pushing it and returning, it leaves the 5th B string in a slightly higher pitch

I guess the problem is at the tuning pan or roller nut. Check if the roller is moving freely. A drop of light oil won't hurt. The design of the tuning pan doesn't allow the 5th string to be pulled in a straight line. That's a major flaw IMHO. I guess Fender insisted on the "ashtray" tuning pan as a product recognition feature - all lap steels and the 400/1000/800/2000 pedal steels had this feature.

About all you can do - short of putting a different keyhead on the guitar - is make sure the roller turns easily and keeping it clean and well lubed.

Rainer

All times are Pacific (US)

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Administrative Options: Close Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic
Post New Topic  
Hop to:

Contact Us | Catalog of Pedal Steel Music Products

Note: Messages not explicitly copyrighted are in the Public Domain.


Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.46

Our mailing address is:
The Steel Guitar Forum
148 South Cloverdale Blvd.
Cloverdale, CA 95425 USA

Support the Forum