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1939 Gibson Pedal Steel
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1939 Gibson Pedal Steel
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This topic was originally posted in this forum: Wanted To Buy |
| Author | Topic: 1939 Gibson Pedal Steel |
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George Rozak Member Posts: 392 |
posted 06 April 2000 10:58 PM
Check this link out: click here And I was under the impression that pedals weren't added to the steel until the 1950s. Definitely interesting... Any comments? George [This message was edited by b0b on 07 April 2000 at 01:06 PM.] |
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Martin Abend Member Posts: 878 |
posted 07 April 2000 05:49 AM
An amazing contruction. Never seen anything like this |
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C Dixon Member Posts: 5912 |
posted 07 April 2000 06:05 AM
George, Thanks for posting that about the Gibson PSG. I have emailed the seller for confirmation on the date of manufacture. Some comments I have are: 1. It appears to look very similar to the Multi-Kord design (from the top), and that guitar did not come out until 1947. 2. Did the Harlan Bros who came out with the Multi-Kord plagierize from this steel, if in fact it did come out before 1947? Interesting! 3. I am very intrigued at the "2 point" support for the key "pegs". I think this is a good idea. I have always thought there was way too much strain on a single point peg mounting as used on most PSG's built today. And I feel that could be responsible for some of the Hysterisis most "keyed" PSG's suffer from. I would again caution any prospective buyer of this type of PSG. It is NOT designed to be played like our A and B pedals. That is, to achieve a "moving tone" type of playing. It was designed, and is, a chord changer type of PSG. Or one where the basic open tuning is changed to something else on demand. Walk with Jesus and all things will be good, carl [This message was edited by C Dixon on 07 April 2000 at 07:08 AM.] |
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Chris Bauer Member Posts: 1195 |
posted 07 April 2000 06:35 AM
Pretty intriguing! My money, however, goes towards finding this was some type of 'Frankenstein' instrument made from a variety of Gibson parts well afer the stated construction date. As far as I know, neither the stutter buttons nor the vari-tone were devised until much later. And, since no one seems to have heard of a pre-Harlan Bros. changer, it's tough to imagine this having been professionally made and word not having gotten out about it before now. Now matter what we find, though, it's certainly a pretty interesting instrument. Someone out there put a lot of thought, design time, and machining into this thing. I'll be interested to see what kind of history can be pieced together about this guitar. |
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Richard Sinkler Member Posts: 2896 |
posted 07 April 2000 07:23 AM
MY GOD!!! How in the world would you play this thing? I am confused about the picup being placed at the tuning key end of the guitar. ------------------ |
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Kenny Dail Member Posts: 2583 |
posted 07 April 2000 08:09 AM
I don't know when these (or this) guitars were first marketed but, I know the single neck "harp" that Gibson sold during the mid or late 40s had the same changer this double neck has. I had a triple neck Gibson "Multiharp" with pedals on the middle neck only that was sold in the 50s. From the looks of this instrument I would say it came out about mid to late 40s. The changer is totally different than the Harlen Bros. changer used on the Multichord. I also owned a multichord. Between the Gibson and the Multichord, it was my opinion that Multichord had the superior changer. ------------------ |
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Chris DeBarge Member Posts: 811 |
posted 07 April 2000 09:53 AM
Look at those pickups, humbuckers weren't invented until about 1956! These particular ones look to be from a late 50's Gibson Console. Still a very bizarre instrument! |
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Jerry Gleason Member Posts: 539 |
posted 07 April 2000 10:26 AM
The logo design, pickups, and knobs all say "fifties" to me. Could the "EH" stand for Electra-Harp? Fascinating design, though. It doesn't look like any other Gibson steel I've ever seen. Wasn't the Harlan Bros. Multi-Chord derived from an earlier Gibson design? I remember seeing an old Gibson "Multi Harp" with the pedals in an arc arrangement like the Multi-Chord had, tuning keys at the bridge, and a similar looking changer. This guitar looks like an interesting piece of history, in any case. |
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Marty Pollard Member Posts: 392 |
posted 07 April 2000 12:46 PM
Fascinating; must be quite rare. $10,000 anyone? |
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Herb Steiner Member Posts: 6119 |
posted 07 April 2000 01:00 PM
According to Gruhn's Guide to Vintage Guitars, this puppy is an EH-820, from page 155, column 1.
quote: ------------------ |
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Bobby Lee Sysop Posts: 14849 |
posted 07 April 2000 01:06 PM
Okay, I know that they didn't work well, but one thing I always liked about those changers was the easy programmability. To change what a pedal does, you just move a machine screw in the changer. Has any modern manufacturer ever come up with a design that is so easily programmed? ------------------ [This message was edited by Bobby Lee on 07 April 2000 at 01:10 PM.] |
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Eric Stumpf Member Posts: 369 |
posted 07 April 2000 01:10 PM
I wanted to wait and see what people had to say about this fabulous monstrosity before throwing in my two cents worth. A couple of years ago I had the grand misfortune of buying, sight unseen, a '57 Gibson Multiharp pedal steel. This strangely beautiful but utterly unplayable triple neck was nearly identical to this instrument now up for auction on eBay. !939? Just get your hands on a 1957 or '58 Gibson catalog and there it is. Gibson virtually handbuilt their pedal steels in the late fifties and you would think that means the build quality was high; not so. The materials were average, the assembly sloppy and the design...well I bet you folks can see these were the guitars from Hell, not Kalamazoo. There were three models; single, double and triple neck versions. On my Multiharp, only the center neck had the pedal-activated changer; you set it up any way you wanted. It never pulled an in tune chord. Imagine everything wrong with a Multi-Kord and then engineer it into an instrument that cost three times as much. And that's what it's all about. Eventually I sold the Multiharp I had to a fellow who'd bought one new in '57; he'd been looking to replace that first steel of his for years and was very happy to get mine. I was even happier! |
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J D Sauser Member Posts: 1240 |
posted 07 April 2000 01:53 PM
quote: Yep. The Fender PS-210 (Gene Fields) , had a similar approach. The actual changing was different (it actually worked very well), but the idea of a cross bar with tuning screws for all strings on each pedal, was the "same". And it was raise and lower. The whole mechanism was moved around 90 degrees, so that the rods were horizontal. A word or two about that Gibson:  Fellow forumite Al Markus had one and played it professionally for 20 (or 30?) years. "Shortly" after Gibson came out with that beast, Harlin Bros. who had come up with a strangely similar changer, but which they patented later, sued Gibson, saying Gibson was infringing their patent.  Multi-Kord changer with raise and lower capability of any string on each pedal. Gibson lost in court and had to go back to a much simpler design that only allowed raising the strings, which must be the changer you see on that D-8 guitar on e-bay. So, it can't be 1930's! I have never had the opportunity to actually touch any of Gibson's pedal steels, put I had once the "privilege" of spending some time to tune up a Multi-Kord (Harlin Bros.), and it kind'a worked. Multi-Kord used cables instead of rods from the floor to the changer, which made to whole thing "spongy", but some have told me that they replaced these with rods and they must have been quite playable.
------------------ [This message was edited by J D Sauser on 07 April 2000 at 03:13 PM.] |
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Al Marcus Member Posts: 7471 |
posted 07 April 2000 07:32 PM
Well here goes, J.D , a very good history of the Gibson Electra-Harp, and your explanation was very thorough. As I was there and had a 1939 Gibson Electra-Harp and played it professionally for nearly 30 years, maybe I can add a little bit more to the story. I knew John Moore, the inventor, Wilbur Marker, his dept. was developing it, Terry McCarty, the President of Gibson, Julius Belson, the Production Manager. I lived in Northern Michigan and made several trips to Gibson in Kalamazoo. I had a Music store and was a Gibson Dealer. Later CMI bought out Gibson and I handled their Lowry Organs too. My good friend Jack Blanchette was Sales manager for Gibson and CMI, he was a excellent musician and played Guitar for the Glen Gray Orchestra in the early big band days. Alvino Rey had a lot to do with input on the ORIGINAL Electra-Harp Which was the best one they made. After all, Alvino played and recorded very well with it. I was happy to have it too, for all the big chords that I could finally get, compared to my twin neck Console Grande. And b0b, you were correct in noticing the tuning setup. The easiest and best there was, and even now , maybe. A steel bar covered all the strings and had 8 raise holes and 8 lower holes. You just put a screw in where you want, the more you screw it in , the longer the pull, hit the pedal , pulls down the steel bar and the screws sticking out hit the tuning levers and pull the strings. Worked great.I used to even change a tuning on a pedal, right on the job while the singer was announcing the next song.The tuning keys were on the right.The only thing is that if you raised 2 or more strings, it took a little muscle. Lowering was releasing pressure, so it took less pressure to lower. The tone was great as it reverberated through that big three sided box all the way to the floor.No one could see the pedals. It also had a nice volume and tone control on top right where my little finger layed (I know Jeff Newman says that is a no-no, but if Curly could do it, then why not?) I put my little finger aroung that tone contral and turn it from bass to treble and get the boo wah, or talking effect, as I learned by watching Alvino Rey, in those early days. Both Reece Anderson and Curly have said that Alvino Rey had a early influence on their playing in one way or another. After Gibson quit pedal guitars, then Alvino went to Fender and later to Sho-Bud, now to Sierra. I like all the new Guitars being built today, but wish an improved changer system, based on the Early Electra-Harp design, could be incorporated. No pull rods underneath ,etc. I bought a Multi-Kord Tuning head from Jay Harlan in Indianapolis, in the 50's and made me a guitar with it, using rods instead of cables to pull the tuning bars. I put 14 strings on it, and put the 8 string tuning head in the middle, that Tuning head was better than the Gibson Head. It had locknuts on the setscrews so they wouldn't back out and move. I played that guitar for years before I got my Emmons push pull, Sho-Bud, MSA, etc, etc. I sold the Electra-Harp to a Teacher named Moore in Columbus, Ohio, he was using it for a Display as a collectors'item.....I hope all this helps along with J.D."s post.....al |
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Al Gershen Member Posts: 432 |
posted 08 April 2000 12:12 AM
Hi Group: Marty Pollard, above, suggest that this instrument on eBay might be worth $10,000? Is that really a fair statement? I looked over the photos of the pedal steel guitar and it does not appear to be in very good condition, apperance wise. Also, it has no case (Do you ever wonder where these cases go?). I've seen a few Gibson Electraharps (single neck models) sold on eBay and they generally don't command a very high price. I would suspect that this guitar falls into that catigory when it comes to fair market value. We'll just have to wait and see what it goes for on eBay; that is, if the seller's unspecified Reserve price is met. ------------------ |
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Martin Abend Member Posts: 878 |
posted 08 April 2000 02:28 AM
Hi Al, I think Marty refers to the discussion about the Bigsby that was sold by a collector for 10k. -martin |
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J D Sauser Member Posts: 1240 |
posted 08 April 2000 11:53 AM
It's funny, I went back looking at that Gibson (the one on e-bay) and the changer detail pic b0b posted above... It would seem as they could have found a way to get around Harlin Bros. (Multi-Kord) patent and get the raise and lower feature. I see two sets of changer tuning screws, and the upper one would/could be for the lowers:  There also is that black set of fingers on top that I haven't seen on Gibsons nor Multi-Kords before... ??? ------------------ |
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KENNY FORBESS Member Posts: 792 |
posted 08 April 2000 10:57 PM
I've got one of these, ser#0-0872, single six string w/4 peds, 4legs. Humbucking pickup, body made of white oak.looks like with natural laquer,put together as a butcher block,about 2 inches thick, very solid. changer on the left end with the rollers, keys and pickup onright end,(looks left handed), Fretboard looks like bakelite, 36 frets, 22and a half scale, red and gold dot fret markings, tone and vol knobs are as gibson, Ped rods go through the peds and hook to the changer buy way of barrell connectors that screw on to a stud under the puller of your choice. The ped lengths are 8'',10'',11''and 13'', They fit on the left end two legs by way of a bracket that slips on to the legs at the bottom, they graduate across the front of the guitar as to the length of the pedals.(not clustered as the Multichord in the corner), The case is original, Leather, with Pink velour inside. Plaque on case says(McMurray Musis Co, 10201 Page Blvd, St Louis,Mo THe pictures B0b put on here looks just like the changer on this guitar, BTW, this one is playable, It'll bite you, Bob, do you have any more input? You'd be surprised at how many times i've tried to get people to take this home with them. It had a chrome cover on the changer, but i guess someone needed an ash tray, (shame) had the Gibson Logo on it too. ------------------ Kenny pf [This message was edited by KENNY FORBESS on 08 April 2000 at 10:59 PM.] |
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J D Sauser Member Posts: 1240 |
posted 09 April 2000 06:56 AM
Kenny Forbess; The picture b0b and later I posted about that changer came from a link you can find on George Rozak's opening post of this thread: click here Does your guitar have raise and lower capability on any string with each pedal? ------------------ |
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Al Gershen Member Posts: 432 |
posted 09 April 2000 10:49 AM
Hi Kenny Forbess: The Gibson Electraharp that you have sounds to me like one of the second generation Electraharps. First Generation: This was the first Electraharp that Gibson made around 1939 to the early 1940s. The pedal changer was very similar to that used in the Harlin Brothers Multi-Kord Hawaiian pedal steel guitars. Second Generation: These were made around the end of the 1940s through 1967. The pedal changer had to be redesigned because of a patent law suit Gibson had with the Harlin Brothers. It's generally agreed that the new pedal changer was very poorly designed and probably lead to the unpopularity of the Gibson Electraharp. There were many models of this guitar including a Multiharp (mentioned in one of the postings above) that had three necks with pedals only on one neck. Third Generation: In 1961, Gibson released two redesigned models of their Electraharp: a double neck model EH-820 (currently on auction on eBay) and a single neck version model EH-810. Both these guitars are 8 string with 8 pedals on the front. It's not clear if these instruments have a redesigned pedal changer from the 2nd generation guitars. They did redesign the pedal cable linkage so that the pedals would be in front of the instrument. These guitars were also made until 1967 at which time Gibson stopped making all their pedal steel guitars. I hope that I cleared things up a bit and perhaps Ken Forbess can post some photos of his Electraharp on the SGF so that we can see for ourselves. ------------------ |
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Chris DeBarge Member Posts: 811 |
posted 09 April 2000 01:01 PM
Has anybody clued the ebay seller into the fact that he is misrepresenting the age of his instrument by as much as 25 years? That's a huge chunk of time out of the history of 20th century music. Think about it: late 30's, direct to disk recording, almost no electric instruments; late 50's - early 60's, plenty of electric instruments, multitrack recording on magnetic tape and of course the pedal steel guitar hitting its stride. I hope that guy puts up a correction soon. |
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Marty Holmes Member Posts: 177 |
posted 10 April 2000 12:28 PM
Good God Girty, Talk about an odd looking creature.that is most definately different. |
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Marty Holmes Member Posts: 177 |
posted 10 April 2000 12:34 PM
Good God Girty, That is about an odd looking creature.Ihave to say it is definately different. |
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CHUCK BRATTAIN Member Posts: 24 |
posted 10 April 2000 01:58 PM
THE CHANGER WORKS JUST LIKE THE MULTI CHORD CHANGER, ONE SCREW RAISES AND THE OTHER ONE LOWERS, THE PROBLEM WAS THAT IT TOOK TO MUCH PRESSURE TO LOWER. |
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Curry Coster Member Posts: 83 |
posted 10 April 2000 02:47 PM
Hi, y'all- I'm a little confused about all these Gibson Electraharps. In the mid-60's my dad got an Electraharp from a local steeler named Norm Queen. This guitar had a sunburst finish, 1 neck, 8 strings,and 6 pedals. The pedals were all different in length, and were attached to the left legs so that they were diagonally across the left corner of the guitar, and they had round white rubber pads on them. The changer was on the left end and looked like the picture in this thread, and the tuning keys were on the right end. There was also a hinged plastic cover for the changer and one for the tuning keys. I have no idea what the tuning may have been, or what the pedals did, but I remember figuring out how to play "Bringing In The Sheaves" by ear on the dern thing. [This message was edited by Curry Coster on 10 April 2000 at 02:49 PM.] |
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Al Gershen Member Posts: 432 |
posted 10 April 2000 06:50 PM
Hi Curry Coster: Thanks for your posting with your reflections about your dad's Gibson Electraharp. Please re-read my posting above where I briefly describe the three different generations of the Gibson Electraharps. It appears to me that your dad's guitar falls into the 2nd generation of guitars. During that period, Gibson built the most Electraharps in a variety of models and they all had their pedals running off the left legs. It's still not clear how similar the pedal changer on your dad's guitar resembles the pedal changer on the guitar that's being auctioned on eBay this week. How many years did your dad keep his Electraharp? What guitar did he replace it with? As you are posting to the SGF, I assume that you an active steel guitarist. What instrument do you have? Thanks again for your comments. ------------------ |
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Curry Coster Member Posts: 83 |
posted 11 April 2000 06:04 AM
Hi, Al- I don't remember now whatever happened to that Electraharp. I think my dad only kept it a couple months and sold it back to Norm. My dad was/is a guitar player(52 Fender Esquire). He wanted to get a steel because he was afraid that bursitis would stiffen his fingers to where he couldn't play guitar and he thought that steel would require less dexterity in the left hand. He actually could play some nice stuff on that 'Harp-kinda older sounding-he didn't really use the pedals. Anyway, the 'Harp went away and I got a Stratocaster. I played with that for a while until one Sunday morning in Spring of 1970 when I got up there was a 10 pedal Sho-Bud sitting in the front room. Somebody had come into the bar where Dad was playing and sold it to him cheap! The Strat went under the bed and stayed there. Once you start fooling with pedal guitars that's it-you're hooked. I am currently playing a '67 Emmons 9x5-red custom paint job. I also have a '74 Emmons 9x5-black gloss mica. Peavey Session 400 2 12 JBLs(weighs a ton). Later... |
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