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Sho-Bud demise?
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The Steel Guitar Forum
Bar Chatter Archive
Sho-Bud demise?
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This topic was originally posted in this forum: Wanted To Buy |
| Author | Topic: Sho-Bud demise? |
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Eric Stumpf Member Posts: 369 |
posted 27 April 2000 06:21 PM
When and why did Sho-Bud go out of business? |
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Don Townsend Member Posts: 321 |
posted 27 April 2000 06:47 PM
Glad you posed that question. I was never clear on the reason, either, and look forward to some insights. Don T |
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John Lacey Member Posts: 1843 |
posted 28 April 2000 07:49 AM
Apparently, they're not out of business. They are owned by the Fred Gretsch company and you can still order guitars from them, probably thru a retailer. |
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Duane Becker Member Posts: 382 |
posted 02 May 2000 07:58 AM
Around 1980, the Baldwin Company bought the Sho~Bud factory from the Jackson Family and moved it to Arkansas. The store on lower Broadway remained open for several more years until about 1984 and then it was closed. It is said that the Sho~Bud pedal steels were being built after 1984, but I've found that most of the players and the people that were around the Sho~Bud Company feel that after the Jacksons sold then that was the end of the Sho~Bud era. Nothing against Baldwin or any of the great craftsmen and workers who was at the Baldwin Factory after 1980, but Shot was the man!!! And one more note about Shot Jackson. I been talking to a lot of people who was hanging around the store or working at Sho~Bud in the '60's and '70's. They all say that Shot Jackson was wonderful. There will never be another man like him. He was a true friend to the steel players. |
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Bill Myrick Member Posts: 1007 |
posted 02 May 2000 05:31 PM
I'm confused guys--- I live very near the Baldwin Factory in N.W. Arkansas and on a lark called them today ; they knew nothing of this happening and assured me they never heard of Sho-Bud nor have they ever bought a guitar Co. except once back in late 60's ---a name like "Custom" maybe ?? HMMMMMM ??? |
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Kenny Davis Member Posts: 779 |
posted 02 May 2000 07:52 PM
I know that in the early '70's, Baldwin was distributing the guitars for Sho~Bud. I think that Shot still controlled the company, but let them handle distribution and marketing(?) Around '76, I had a few Sho~Bud t-shirts silk screened (for personal use) using the logo. I happened to run into a Gretsch factory rep one day, and he "rewarded" me with a couple of Gretsch t-shirts for promoting one of his products! In the 1992 St. Louis program, Fred Gretsch Enterprises, Ltd. had a Sho~Bud advertisement that read "Exclusively by GRETSCH". However, I heard that he was trying to sell the Sho~Bud name at that time. I'm sure that there are some former Sho~Bud people here that can put a good timeline out for us. The "demise" of the company is a shame, as it happened before some of the technology we now have made it to the scene. I think it needed someone like Ron Lashley to carry it to the next level. It's a fact that no one has built a guitar that has that special sound. For that matter, I guess I should mention early Emmons and ZB guitars - These three guitars had their "own" sound. |
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Don Townsend Member Posts: 321 |
posted 02 May 2000 07:56 PM
I met a fellow at Scotty's convention in 1996 who called himself Mr. Sho-Bud, and was making reproduction Sho-Bud parts for 1957 to 1982 models 6139, 6140, 6148, 6150, 6152, 6155, 6160, 6164, 6165, and 6166. He gave me a parts catalog for all those models, and said that he had purchased the original molds for casting the parts. His name was John R. Coop Sr., 8219 W. Fairview Dr., Yorktown, Indiana 47396. Phone number was 317-759-5596. That was 4 years ago, so who knows where he is today. But he may be able to shed some light on the Sho-Bud shutdown story. DonT |
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Al Udeen Member Posts: 1164 |
posted 02 May 2000 08:42 PM
The Baldwin Co. of today is totally different from the Original Baldwin Piano&Organ Co of Cincinatti, Ohio. Whom I worked for from 1975-80. It was referred to as Baldwin/Gretsch, and was the Exclusive distributer of Sho- Bud Guitars! They Merged with Custom Electronics of Chanute, Kansas. in 1980. Shortly after that Sho-Bud was bought by Fred Gretsch Enterprises, and I believe they still own it. Al Udeen |
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Dean Brown Member Posts: 254 |
posted 02 May 2000 08:44 PM
If you'll go to the RayLine homepage http://www.se.mediaone.net/~rayline/ They offer "new Shobuds". |
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Ken Tinsman Member Posts: 753 |
posted 03 May 2000 07:06 AM
I know that at least from the late 80s to early 90s they were made at a Gretch factory in Ridgeway, South Carolina. They may still be. I know I drove by the factory while on leave from the Army in '92 or so, but was not impressed. I tried to get some new changer fingers for my Pro III, and they just looked at me like I was speaking Arabic or something. It was pretty obvious that the people working there (at least in the front office, they wouldn't let me in back) were people paid to put part A into slot B - not steel fanatics who love to create instruments like Shot was or any of the other great builders we have. |
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Mark Herrick Member Posts: 1154 |
posted 03 May 2000 11:33 AM
Does anyone have any experience with these new Sho-Bud guitars? Can we get any comments on quality, reliability, sound, etc.? |
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Joe Minor Member Posts: 69 |
posted 03 May 2000 05:26 PM
I own a pro2 that is candy apple red that is a late model as it does not have the nashville tenesse written under the Sho Bud logo. the serial no. is18600. I also have a LDG model that was made from a super pro cabinet and end plates. The pro 2 is a very well made guitar. as good or better than the older guitars. I also have another LDG that does not show any cabinet drop when measured with a turner. does anyone else know of a LDG on a super pro frame? |
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louie hallford Member Posts: 812 |
posted 04 May 2000 05:36 PM
I have been told you can get a SHO Bud guitar if you pay cash in advance and wait one year for delivery. I will believe that when I see it or when one of the forum members tell me. Who has one that is as new as five years old? Tell us about it. It is a shame to see the, one time, biggest seller ,and biggest name steel guitar disappear from the scene. |
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Joe Finley Member Posts: 53 |
posted 04 May 2000 07:40 PM
Bill I worked for Baldwin in Conway AR in the early 80s which I built ShoBud guitars. They moved the operation to DeQueen and I didnt go with them. They brought me back to build guitars in Conway and I did for a short while. Thats when Fred bought the company and moved it to South Carolina. Later on Gene Haugh who worked in Ar and South Carolina came back home to Magazine Ar and built out of his garage for Fred for awhile. I havent talked to him for sometime so I dont know if he still builds any guitars. Joe [This message was edited by Joe Finley on 04 May 2000 at 07:43 PM.] |
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JOZEF SMITH Member Posts: 77 |
posted 04 May 2000 11:11 PM
Does anybody have any info on Sho Bud D-10 "The Professional" built in 1972. What is the difference brtween this and the Pro II and Pro III? Thanks, Joe. Westminster - Ca. |
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Duane Becker Member Posts: 382 |
posted 04 May 2000 11:34 PM
Joe, the Professionals were built around 1965-1966, just after the Baldwin Crossover production was stopped. The pull rods were attached to the crossrods by a device that kinda looked like a little bucket. They were long with usually 10 holes that the pull rods went into. The Professionals were heavy and used brass tuning collars with a raise-lower changer. The Pro Series came out in the early 1970's, maybe around 1973 or 1974 until 1977. Undercarriage did not have these buckets. They did use the brass tuning collars with the raise-lower changer in the first couple of years, but soon went to the nylon tuners at the right end plate and a different type of changer with multiple raise and lower on each string done at the changer and not with brass tuning collars. |
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Lem Smith Member Posts: 1501 |
posted 05 May 2000 11:07 AM
Duane Dunard has one on his website that he is selling for a customer. It's a 1999 model Pro I. Nice looking guitar. www.duanesmusic.com/forsale.html  Lem [This message was edited by Lem Smith on 05 May 2000 at 11:09 AM.] |
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Jack Stoner Sysop Posts: 8119 |
posted 05 May 2000 12:02 PM
I thought Sho-Bud's were built in Chanute KS after Shot sold out??? I remember going to a semminar with Scotty and Buddy E. in Iola Ks (way back don't remember the date) but there were a couple of guys from the Sho-Bud factory there with a couple of Sho-Buds and I was under the impression they were from Chanute (Kustom)????? |
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Patrick Smith Member Posts: 747 |
posted 05 May 2000 12:25 PM
Joe, I talked to Gene a few couple of years ago and he told me no one was building them at that time....He had even shipped all of his parts off up North to Illinois. Gene rebuilt a Pro II of mine with all the new mechanisms and he did a great job on the thing, plays and sounds fantastic! As for what Fred is doing with Sho Bud now I really don't know. Hope this helps PMS |
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Joe Casey Member Posts: 3402 |
posted 05 May 2000 05:07 PM
How can anything survive without the original heart. Shots legacy is protected by the ideas and quality people that made the product. Whats that other guys name Bud something or other? Once you've been there where else can you go? |
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Terry Wood Member Posts: 1205 |
posted 05 May 2000 05:47 PM
Hi Guys & Dolls, There seems to be a lot of controversy surrounding the SHO-BUD steels. For my part I can share my experiences concerning their steels. First, some of the greatest steel guitar players played Sho-Buds at one time or another. Those pros included Jimmy Day, Lloyd Green, Pete Drake, Jerry Byrd, Buddy Charleton, Ralph Mooney, Doug Jenigan, Buddy Emmons, Bobby Black, Julian Tharpe, Hal Rugg and others played the Sho-Bud stels or at least for awhile. I think a lot would be surprised to know how many hit songs or steel L.P.s were recorded on a Sho-Bud. Next, the company was shifted around a bunch after Shot. I heard they were in Chanute, KS and Arkansas, and finally Fred Gretch and Gretch Guitars. The rumors I heard included that Gretch made so much money off their guitars they could have cared less about the steels. I owned two Sho-Bud Steels my first pedal steel was a Lloyd Green Sho-Bud 1974. I bought it knowing soley that it was like the steel that Lloyd Green played. He was and remains one of my favorite all time steel guitar artist. I have everything he ever recorded as instrumentals and learned to play much of my commercial E-9th licks off his albums and Jimmy Day's recordings. I have a Pro I Sho-Bud one of the last Nashville manufactured ones. I ordered two more factory knee pedals through Frenchy's Pedal Steel Shop Belen NM and he ordered them from Gretch Guitars. It took about 6 months to receive the extra knee pedals but installed I got another Green setup on this steel. The tone is much different than my 14 string BMI that blows the walls down, but it is a great steel to setup quick and play for a differrent sound. Bottom line, Sho-Buds were great steels and further more some of the Heavy Weight, All Time GREAT steel guitarists played them. You knew who they were when they sat down behind the Sho-Bud to pick it too! Weren't no clones in those days, just guts, glory and GREAT STEEL! Terry Wood |
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Richard Sinkler Member Posts: 2896 |
posted 05 May 2000 06:23 PM
I believe that the Sho~Bud ceased to be a Sho~Bud when they went to the cheap pot metal parts and other cost cutting measures to cut their production costs. Like the newer Emmons guitars, they didn't have the tone of the older Buds. I look at the quality of my (probably) late 70's Super Pro and shake my head in shame. The craftmanship and sheer artistry of the Sho~Bud just disappeared one day. Not sure when, but I would imagine that it happened when Baldwin and Gretsch got their hands into it. Oh well, I'm no expert but I do notice the difference in the older Buds. ------------------ |
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Al Marcus Member Posts: 7471 |
posted 05 May 2000 10:27 PM
Well, I am one of the lucky ones. I have an original S10 Professional Nashville Sho-bud with 5 pedals and 5 knee levers, with original dual Shot Jackson pickups. I love it and the tone is great. Blonde Birdseye original finish. Still looks good too. I owned it for 14 years, then sold it.Sorry I did that. I wanted to go to 12 string. The player that bought it, kept it for a year, took good care of it, and asked me if I wanted to buy it back. I said "Sure"! He was going to a D10. Now I have my old Sho-Bud back. But I am still wanting to go to a Single 12 for my complete "lean and Mean" E6-E9-E13 tuning. I am looking for one now. I can't understand why they are not in business any more. I guess we all Miss people like Shot Jackson for Sho-Bud and Ron Lashley for Emmons.....al |
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Richard Sinkler Member Posts: 2896 |
posted 06 May 2000 08:34 AM
Right you are Al. We will very much miss Ron & Shot. I would like to add Zane Beck, Joe Kline, Chuck Wright, Bud Carter, and Maurice Anderson. There are several more that should be included that slip my mind right now. With technology as it is now, and a deeper understanding of the problems inherent in the design of a steel, I can only imagine what these greats could be producing today (of course Bud is still active, not sure about Chuck). Unfortunately, when most think of the steel guitar, they think first of the great players of the instrument and sometimes forget about great men (and women?) who created this wonderful instrument. I am guilty of this also. Thankfully, we have a lot of great people continuing to build and further develop the PSG. ------------------ |
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Al Marcus Member Posts: 7471 |
posted 06 May 2000 09:40 AM
Yes,Richard, I'll add to that. Zane Beck for his beautiful finished and great sounding guitars, and Chuck Wright for all his inovations, the first Sierra, staggered pedals, working with MSA in the early years. And talking about longtime builders, how about Bud Carter, still at it, and building a great steel guitar at a reasonable price.! What they all have contributed to the development of the Pedal Steel Guitar, can not me measured. Remember BE was in on those early years with Emmons and Sho-Bud. I am sure that many of his ideas and designs were incorporated in those guitars....al |
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