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Sho-Bud parts - What year?
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The Steel Guitar Forum
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Sho-Bud parts - What year?
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This topic was originally posted in this forum: Wanted To Buy |
| Author | Topic: Sho-Bud parts - What year? |
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Bob Metzger Member Posts: 424 |
posted 14 July 2000 03:27 PM
What year did Sho-Bud go to the 'modular' pot metal undercarridge parts (some people call this the 'Super Pro' parts - this era being characterised by the undercarridge rods go thru the puller fingers at a right angles and are held in place by a (usually) black metal clip)? When (approx. what year) did Sho-Bud stop use of the 'Birdcage' undecarridge mechanism What year (or about what year) did Sho-Bud discontinue the wide floor pedals and begin Someone's got to know this stuff, right? Thanks in advance!! Bob |
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Fred Layman Member Posts: 583 |
posted 14 July 2000 06:30 PM
Bob, let me give you some ballpark dates and perhaps the other fellas can sharpen them up. Sho-Bud was still using the rack bellcranks with two rows of 10 holes each and brass tuners in 1970. I bought a SB Professional -- a '71 or '72 model -- that had dropped the rack bellcranks in favor of individual bellcranks, but it still had the socket head pedal tuning rods and the brass tuners. The plated pot metal undercarriage, knee levers and changer fingers came in when Baldwin/Gretsch bought the company toward the mid-80s. This was probably perceived as a cost-saving measure, since all those parts could be mass-produced castings with a minimum of the expensive machining necessary on solid aluminum and stamped steel parts. |
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Kenny Davis Member Posts: 779 |
posted 14 July 2000 07:25 PM
My '73 Pro II had the allen head tuners with single raise, single lower. Within a year or so, I sent it back to have the 5th knee put on. Duane Marrs told me that they had changed the under carriage, and wanted to know if I wanted it on mine. It came back double raise and with nylon tuners. I beleive that was the difference between the "The Pro II" and the "Pro II Custom". You may check with Duane Becker, as he has studied the Sho~Bud history. |
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Al Udeen Member Posts: 1164 |
posted 14 July 2000 08:40 PM
Bob! I was With Gretsch in 1977! That is the year the Super Pro came out!I got the 1st one,that we introduced at the NAMM show in Chicago. All models from that point forward were, smaller,& had the narrow pedals, Good Luck Al Udeen |
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Jeff Lampert Member Posts: 2636 |
posted 14 July 2000 08:50 PM
To Kenny and other interested parties, It is not correct to call the mechanism a "single raise-singer lower". In the current terminology of the PSG, this implies you can only do a single raise and a single lower on a given string. This is not so. There is one set of raise fingers and one set of lower fingers, but each string can have as many pulls as needed by inserting a pull rod into the raise or lower finger and putting on a brass barrel-tuner for each pedal. In fact, you could put a pull for each floor pedal and knee lever on the same rod!! Anyway, a name that is often used is the Rack-and-Barrel which, IMHO, is a much better description. .. Jeff |
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Donny Hinson Member Posts: 9192 |
posted 15 July 2000 06:05 AM
I think MOST players would agree that "barrel tuners", while they do allow additional changes on "limited" guitars, are a jury-rig, at best. If you have to stick your hand UNDER the guitar to tune something...it means you HAVE an XRL, and are trying to MAKE IT an XXRL. The more common definition of "double raise" means you have two rows of raising holes in the changer. You can "finagle" a way to tune other pulls on just about any guitar. The only guitar that is truly single raise would be one where everything was welded together! |
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Fred Amendola Member Posts: 146 |
posted 15 July 2000 08:19 AM
I bought a used D-10 Professional in '73. It had been converted like Fred Layman mentions, from the racks to bell cranks. But still used the large socket head ended tuning rods. One raise rod, one lower rod. But there were multiple "barrels" on individual rods, giving as many raises and lowers within reason. The multiple pulls were all tuned from the same rod. In tuning, the whole rod spun, unlike most guitars. By depressing a pedal or lever and turning the rod, only the barrel with the pedal or bell crank pressure on it would adjust, the others would remain where they were. It was a pretty good system, but admittedly not quite as positive as the new all pulls or push-pull for that matter. Hope this helps. |
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Bob Metzger Member Posts: 424 |
posted 15 July 2000 12:03 PM
I'm aware of all the various systems Sho-Bud used on their pedal steels, as I've owned Sho-Buds from almost every era over the years and I have a good inventory of Sho-Bud parts as I do repairs for friends and others. What I'm wondering is WHEN did these various styles of undercarridge mechanisms appear. (I understand that certain parts appeared in adjacent eras). Isn't this the best way we have for pinpointing the approximate date of manufacture of any Sho-Bud steel? Are the serial numbers helpful or useless, on their own? Bob |
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Bob Metzger Member Posts: 424 |
posted 15 July 2000 12:22 PM
A second thought: So is it fair to say that the 60's era of Sho-Bud featured rack bellcranks (or birdcage or ladder - pick you poison), brass tuning collars. The 70's era featured individual bellcranks, welded undercarridge parts, nylon tuners, mutiple raise/lower capabilities. The 80's era featured pot metal modular parts, tuning rods with right angles into 5 position bellcranks held in place by metal clips. I realize I could be off by a few years here in this but imagine the ease of talking about buying a steel from someone on the other side of the country if not someone on the other side of the world. What parts I'm likely to find in the undercarridge is my #1 question when buying a 'Bud'. (It should be everone's). If we had a way to classify the various 'eras' of Sho-Bud by undercarridge mechanism, it would make life easier. Terms like Pro I or Pro II, cross over these more natural barriers of design elements. I wish I had a nickle for every minute I was on long distance trying to describle some silly little Sho-Bud part to some guy from a different part of the country! If these are not fair assumptions, what would be? Bob |
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Fred Layman Member Posts: 583 |
posted 15 July 2000 01:47 PM
It appears from the above that the rack-and-barrel system was on Sho-Buds from 65 to 70 (Crossovers) and the Professionals from 70 to 72/3. About 72/3 Sho-Bud replaced the rack bellcranks with individual bellcranks that were not welded to the axle, but could be positioned along the axle and set in place with a set-screw. The single-raise cross arm on the raise lever for sting 4 was replaced with a double-raise cross arm on that changer, in order to get a double-raise to accomodate the C pedal and F knee lever raises. That setup was transitional between the Crossover model and the Pro I and II models (ca.73/74) that incorporated a new double-raise, double-lower changer mechanism and nylon tuning rods, but retained the individual bellcrank that was used on the later Professionals. Al Udeen would know more about the Gretsch years, but if memory serves me correctly, Sho-Bud was out of production for a few years and then reappeared with the pot metal undercarriage and changer fingers in the early to mid-80s. A good research source for all of this would be the St. Louis Convention program books where Sho-Bud had ads, as well as Winnie Winston's coverage of steel guitars at the convention which usually came out in the December or January editions of the Pedal Steel Newletter. |
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Jeff Lampert Member Posts: 2636 |
posted 15 July 2000 07:28 PM
Donny, Fred's description is 100% accurate. All tuning is done at the endplate, except for the 1/2 stop on the 2nd E9 string that lowers the D# to D/C#. I own a Professional with the rack-and-barrel (besides a current Zum) and can assure you that, while somewhat clangy, it was an extremely versatile and clever mechanism, expecially for it's time. It's design allowed multiple pulls on the same string using endplate tuning. I bought it new around 1974, at about the time the Pro III with aluminum necks was released. At the time I believe someone in the store said that it was made around 1968 or so. They might have been wrong though. Again, I would like to reiterate since a number of players have this misconception, this is most definitely, by current naming standards, NOT a single raise-single lower. |
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