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Bigsby Palm-Pedals
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The Steel Guitar Forum
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Bigsby Palm-Pedals
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This topic was originally posted in this forum: Wanted To Buy |
| Author | Topic: Bigsby Palm-Pedals |
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db Member Posts: 680 |
posted 18 August 2000 12:34 AM
I am going down to Georgia this week to see Fred Gretsch to see about getting the Bigsby Palm-Pedal product line back out on the market. If you have an interest, check out: www.geocities.com/Nashville/6718/dbalde.html or email me… (check behind the glasses) ------------------ db U-12/8&5, S-7/D 3&1, S-6/E&A [This message was edited by db on 18 August 2000 at 07:48 AM.] |
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Eric Stumpf Member Posts: 369 |
posted 18 August 2000 06:08 AM
I know I speak for many of us regarding the famous Bigsby Volume/Tone pedals. I would love to see these re-introduced and modernized a bit so as to improve their marginal reliability. Tell those folks to get these back out there ASAP !!! |
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Chris Walke Member Posts: 846 |
posted 18 August 2000 06:41 AM
db--that link you posted isn't taking me anywhere. I'm getting an error message. Anyone else having trouble? I would love to get my hands on a Palm Pedal. I just picked up a Hipshot b-bender and it's loads of fun. |
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db Member Posts: 680 |
posted 18 August 2000 07:54 AM
^ ^ ^ Try the new (edited) website link.^ ^ ^ I would be great to see if the Volume/Tone pedals could be available. I'm going to ask about them too. [This message was edited by db on 18 August 2000 at 07:59 AM.] |
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Lefty Member Posts: 742 |
posted 19 August 2000 06:01 AM
Parts r Parts list these on their web page, but they are pretty high dollar. Maybe new-old stock. |
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Mike Perlowin Member Posts: 6731 |
posted 19 August 2000 07:59 AM
Chris, Hipshot makes a palm pedal that attaches to their B-bender unit. You can have the B bender and one or two palm pedals on your guitar. I have a tele wiht a homemade B string bener made by my father, and a palm pedal on the G string. It's very cool. BTW, speaking of Hipshot, did you know that Dave Borissoff, the owner of the company plays steel? He and I played together back in the 70's, (I played lead) and he was the one who got me started by lending me his Maverick when he graduateed to a better guitar. |
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Jerry Hayes Member Posts: 3306 |
posted 19 August 2000 11:50 AM
Hey db, I've got two of the original Bigsby Palm Pedals. I picked them up in Los Angeles in the early 70's. I've got a solid body type on an Ibanez artist and the trapeze type on a Gibson Trini Lopez thin line. I've used these things for many years now and can't live without 'em. I first saw one at the after hours jam session at the Imperial Inn in Santa Fe Springs (L.A. area) California. A great guitar player and good friend named Al Bruno was using it and amazing everyone. Soon most of the guitar players around had Gibson 335 style guitars with Bigsby Palm Pedals. They came with two levers to move the B & G strings usually a whole tone. I was doing repairs in a music store once in Inglewood and I took two sets and put all four levers on one unit and installed it on a Telecaster for Nokie Edwards of the Ventures. He liked it real good. I staggered the heights and adjusted the length of the outside two so they'd be easier to use. Also I had to shim the neck so we could raise the rear bridge. He didn't want to cut any slots in the bridge piece. I've also got two Telecasters with Hip Shot units on them. I tried Bigsby's but the levers are too long and stick over the bridge. For some information to those who don't know, the palm pedal was invented by the Forum's own Boomer Castleman. Boomer had another unit as a prototype but Bigsby wanted him to design one which would use the existing frame of a Bigsby vibrato so he did. Boomer plays a Telecaster with 6 pedals on it and really plays it. ------------------ [This message was edited by Jerry Hayes on 19 August 2000 at 11:53 AM.] |
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Boomer Member Posts: 400 |
posted 19 August 2000 12:47 PM
Jerry - Thanks for the plug, Gregg Galbraith told me about this post, and I'll lend any information I can concerning the Plam Pedal: When Ted McCarty sold to Gretch last year, they indeed bought the remaining stock of palm pedal parts. I don't believe they're manufacturing any more of them, but if I'm not mistaken the existing parts are for sale. My notes are somewhat cloudy (very light pencil) but I believe the man to contact is DUKE KRAMER at 513-232-4972. Best, Boomer [This message was edited by Boomer on 19 August 2000 at 12:50 PM.] |
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db Member Posts: 680 |
posted 19 August 2000 08:08 PM
Palm-Pedals do not work well on any Fender that I know of, the pedals hang over the bridge too far. You need a guitar with a greater "pin-to-Bridge" distance, like a Gibson SG or ES series. I have mine on an old Kramer Aluminum neck. Hey Boomer... did you look at the website? I am getting the parts and signing a deal with Fred on Monday. I use and love the old Volume/Tone pedals too. I have Fenders and have never seen one of the Bigsbys up close. There is no one else that I know of that is currently making this type of pedal. I will ask Fred about the old parts inventory and if someone else is still making them. [This message was edited by db on 19 August 2000 at 08:27 PM.] |
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Boomer Member Posts: 400 |
posted 20 August 2000 08:07 AM
db - I saw the web page; quite interesting how they're combining palm pedals with other changers that lower, etc. For the complete history of the palm pedal you can order a copy of the rock magazine "Rock & Read" from Starlight Productions, P.O. Box 291046, Nashville, TN 37229; (rock&read@aol.com) They did a cover story on me and the palm pedal (April, 2000 Issue #43N). Best, Boomer |
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Jerry Hayes Member Posts: 3306 |
posted 20 August 2000 09:05 AM
Hey Boomer, Do you have any plans to market the unit like you showed me in St. Louis. I might be interested in one with just 3 levers on B, G, and D strings with a whole tone raise. I've got Hipshots on two of my Tele's but I really don't like having to assemble something to play a gig like the lever you have to put in the thing. The palm pedal just makes more sense to me but unfortunately they're just too long for a Tele but the one you have would be cool. Thanks, Jerry H. ------------------ [This message was edited by Jerry Hayes on 20 August 2000 at 09:08 AM.] |
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Boomer Member Posts: 400 |
posted 20 August 2000 05:16 PM
Jerry - No plans yet. If I had enough orders I would consider securing manufacturing for the device. Maurice Anderson & I have been batting around the possibilities, but neither one of us are ready to jump into it without some kind of reading on what the demand would be like. Best, Boomer |
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basilh Member Posts: 3417 |
posted 20 August 2000 06:16 PM
I think it would be a great idea to market them for a six or eight string lap steel Baz ------------------
quote: http://homepage.tinet.ie/~basilh/ |
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Roy Thomson Member Posts: 2308 |
posted 20 August 2000 07:23 PM
My post is probably way off the mark but I seem to recall reading that Shot Jackson made "palm pedals" for Buck Trent when he played electric banjo with Porter Wagner. It was an incredible country sound!!! His first four strings were D - B - G- D high to low. The first pedal lowered the B to A and the second lowered the G to F#. It sounded very much like a steel at times. The "Carol County Accident" is a classic example of the sound. I can't see why it would not work on lap steel as well as Dobro. Just a comment. Roy T. [This message was edited by Roy Thomson on 20 August 2000 at 07:25 PM.] |
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Boomer Member Posts: 400 |
posted 21 August 2000 03:30 AM
Back in the early 70's I put four palm pedals on Jim Messina's Dobro and his lap steel, and they seemed to work nicely. On the Dobro, I had to mount them on a wooden shim about 1 1/2 inches thick, then attached the shim with the pedals on it to the back of the resonator. For the lap steel, I had to cut off the back part of the base unit of the palm pedal, as it stuck out too far; then redrilling mounting holes was necessary in order for proper installation. Buck Trent's banjo had medium sized buttons that when depressed actually moved individual saddles on a customized steel guitar-like bridge built especially for his banjo. Basically it was the same operation mecanically incorporated in the bridges of steel guitars. Best, Boomer |
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db Member Posts: 680 |
posted 21 August 2000 08:21 PM
Hey Boomer , was your curiosity comment about the prototype “Whammy spring string lower” or about the “Landreth maneuver”? Jerry , There were quite a few of the “swing-arm” pedals, I've heard of them but had not ever seen them before. They pivot straight up to get out of the way (good for the short Bridge-to-Pin guitars).
Basil , It might be possible to mount the on a "Melobar" [This message was edited by db on 21 August 2000 at 08:42 PM.] |
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Boomer Member Posts: 400 |
posted 22 August 2000 09:31 AM
db - I was curious about the device that lowers two strings at once. I assume its spring-loaded. I've found, however that, with the exception of the low E string, with a fretted instrument one can put his fingers to the notes he wants to lower to, depress the pedals, strike the strings, let up on the pedals, and your desired effect is created. With a steel, pedals that lower are essential as there are no frets and its basically an in-line vertical string attack (in most cases). Best, Boomer |
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db Member Posts: 680 |
posted 22 August 2000 10:47 AM
Boomer, The hip lever RAISES two strings at once. from D to D#, the equvalent to the 'F' (or 'D') knee lever function of a pedal steel. I get all of my string lowering by using what I call the "Landreth Maneuver". I did try a single string lower D to C# on my 2nd or 5th string at one time,but, I didn't find it as usefull as the raise. |
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Boomer Member Posts: 400 |
posted 22 August 2000 11:00 PM
db - My mistake. I apologize. I have seen so many devices that spring loaded lower two strings simultaneously on an electric guitar that I erroneously thought that's what this device did. If the Landreth maneuver is the concept wherein one frets behind the bar whilst playing slide, its a great concept. Let it be noted that it works best with the slide on the little finger instead of the ring finger. And with palm pedals, it understandably opens up doors heretofore unknown in slide playing technique. Best, Boomer |
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Mark van Allen Member Posts: 2458 |
posted 23 August 2000 09:01 AM
Back in the 70's I was taking Guitar lessons from the Forum's own Larry Bell (can't believe he hasn't shown up on this thread yet!) He was a monster fingerpicker way back then. (Now he's just a monster...) he was lusting after his first pedal steel and put Palm pedals on his Dobro- I remember him playing some really sweet stuff on that contraption, and he may still have it- anyway he could give up lots of information about the various trials and tribulations of that setup. I can't believe some manufacturer hasn't come out with an affordable lap steel with some kind of palm pedal arrangement- what a great way to get some new blood into the pedal world. ------------------ |
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Boomer Member Posts: 400 |
posted 23 August 2000 04:42 PM
Amen Mark. Best, Boomer |
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db Member Posts: 680 |
posted 23 August 2000 08:13 PM
Hey Boomer, Could you send me an e-mail so that I could have your e-mail address? I would like to correspond with you about the Bigsby P-P thing further... beyond this thread. Thanks for all of your interaction and inventing such a wonderful device. |
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Mike Black Member Posts: 528 |
posted 24 August 2000 12:46 PM
Boomer did you ever know Tom Turman? He's a fine standard guitar player from El Cajon,CA. He told me he invented a thing Bigsby made called the Tru-Tone changer. He said Paul didn't make many of them. This was in the early 60's. If your familiar with them how did they differ from the palm pedal? I've not seen one. Though Tom has some pictures of them he no longer owns one. He also invented the pedal device for guitar that Phil Baugh gets credit for. He said he lent it to Baugh and he disappeared with it. In his early 70's Tommy's a great guy that's not a BS'r so I think it's time he got some credit for that. db, Go after the footpedals too, it would be nice if someone offered that style of pedal. I'd spoken to them shortly after they bought Bigsby Accessories and they had planned on makeing pedals and weren't interested in selling that part. That was at least a year ago. [This message was edited by Mike Black on 24 August 2000 at 12:52 PM.] |
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db Member Posts: 680 |
posted 24 August 2000 07:52 PM
I have found a few design weaknesses in the last released version of the Palm-Pedal. 1.) The "stop" screw presses into the Nylon string roller. The compression of the nylon causes a slight de-tuning and a gradual wear on the Nylon roller. It would be better to have a Metal string roller or an addition of a stop plate. 2.) Having adjustable "depressed" and "rest" adjustments have too many variables. It would be better to select a "locked" depressed screw length. You would depress the pedal and tune the headstock machine for the "raise pitch", and use the thumbscrew for the "open pitch". Providing multiple screws length to chose from ( with the option of cutting or filing the screw for "fine-tuning" adjustment of the depressed position ). 3.) The "thumb screw" adjustment mechanical advantage of the STD provided screws is not very ergonomic. A larger OD thumbscrew would be better. 4.) The "swing arm" design " where the last 2.5" hinge upward seems awkward and fragile. I think that a "pivot" arm would be better. Where the last 2.75" of the arm past the "stop" screw rotates CCW on the left arm and CW on the right arm. Do you have any other suggestions for improvements, or can sight any other problems with the old Bigsby Palm Pedal assembly design? [This message was edited by db on 24 August 2000 at 08:07 PM.] |
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Boomer Member Posts: 400 |
posted 25 August 2000 06:39 PM
db - you can reach me at amria2@aol.com In answer to some of your concerns, they are definitely legitimate ones. As far as the nylon string roller goes, I suggest taking it off altogether. More string wear, granted, but it stays in tune a little better. The swing back arms are fragile indeed. I suggest stationary arms, and cut about 3/4 of an inch off of each one. they are definitely too long for telecasters. I guess I'm one of those who believes in "the less moving parts, the better". The heighth ajustment screws (on the back of the pedals) is a necessary evil for the purpose of adjusting different heights of each pedal. The springs on both sets of screws are almost useless. Less tolerance on the 6/32 threads and screws would be better suited to the purpose of tighter screws. Mike, I am not familiar with Tom Tuman or the Tru-Tone Changer. I never dealt with Paul Bigsby, only Ted McCarty after he purchased it from Paul. In patent research, I don't remember ever coming across the Tru-Tone Changer, which doesn't mean to say he did not have a similar device. I am just not aware of it. As far as Phil Baugh goes, I'm not familiar with the history of that device MSA ultimately put out in limited quantities. Maurice Anderson would be better suited for information regarding that. I do remember in '71 or '72 Phil came to see me perform at "Daddy's Money" in Dallas, Texas; at that time he was not playing with any floor pedals, but shortly thereafter I saw him in Nashville with them. Best of luck, db, in your quest for more Bigsby Palm Pedals. Sounds like you've got a pretty good bead on securing them from Fred. Best, Boomer |
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db Member Posts: 680 |
posted 28 August 2000 08:00 PM
I am back from Georgia with all the inventory and the MFG rights for the Bigsby PALM-PEDAL line. I will be offering a special "early contact pricing" to everyone on the forum how shows an interest by contacting me at dbalde@eclipse.net until the end of the year. |
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Mike Black Member Posts: 528 |
posted 29 August 2000 12:27 PM
db, What was the word on the Vol/Tone footpedals? |
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db Member Posts: 680 |
posted 02 September 2000 12:35 PM
Fred wants "5 figures" for the Bigsby Volume/Tone inventory and rights. The number of units that can be built is currently limited to only 96 pieces,( the lowest count of available main " in the rough", cast sub-assemblies ). This product is highly labor intensive to bring to a finished state. The final calculation would bring the list price of the product up above $300! I believe that this price is much too high for the ( very limited ) market to bear. I have asked about his intentions to make them or "job them out" or make them available in "kit" form. I let you all know what else I find out. |
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db Member Posts: 680 |
posted 12 September 2000 11:19 PM
Fred Gretsch and Dan Balde shake on the transfer of the Bigsby Palm-Pedal product Line.  Dan with his "Quad" Pedal-Slide Guitar. http://www.geocities.com/Nashville/6718/dbalde.html [This message was edited by db on 13 September 2000 at 12:11 AM.] |
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db Member Posts: 680 |
posted 14 September 2000 09:49 PM
For those of you who don't know what they are: http://www.geocities.com/dbalde.geo/BP-15.jpg & http://www.geocities.com/dbalde.geo/bppflier.jpg |
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db Member Posts: 680 |
posted 14 March 2001 03:57 PM
www.db.bigsbypalmpedal.com |
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Danny Bates Member Posts: 167 |
posted 14 March 2001 05:09 PM
I've got a Bigsby Palm Pedal Model BP-15 with the original box and two factory typed pages of information. One page is the installation instructions and the other is Tuning and Operation Instructions. I also have the factory screws and the little round cover plate for the big round screw plate. The BP-15 is the model for solid body guitars. It is not the thinline model for the semi-hollow body guitars. If somebody wants it... I will sell it for $100 including shipping (if you live in the lower 48) Email me @ Ernie43801@aol.com |
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Mylos Sonka Member Posts: 212 |
posted 15 March 2001 06:11 AM
I have heard from Tommy Turman as well as others that Turman's design-- for a six-string floor pedal string puller for standard guitar-- predates Phil Baugh's. There is not much money to be made from such limited-interest gizmology, so I don't think there are any business interests at stake here, but it would be nice to give credit where it's due. If Tommy comes up to Vance Terry's memorial in Sacramento this weekend, I'll mention this string and see if he would like to make a comment. Maybe he has a picture. Mylos |
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ROBERT LEE CRIGGER Member Posts: 17 |
posted 25 March 2001 11:39 PM
AMEN to you, Jerry--I worked the Imperial Inn in Sante Fe Springs, Ca. for 4 years with Al Bruno (I play piano, and was called "Bobby Lee" then) Al Constantly amazed me and everyone else who hear him. He could get everything out of a guitar--with or without palm pedals-- |
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ROBERT LEE CRIGGER Member Posts: 17 |
posted 25 March 2001 11:42 PM
I meant to say everyone who "heard" him--I think my computer is stuck in C#-- |
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