posted 29 March 2001 10:32 PM         

Peavey as an example started out with few dealers who were willing to put their money into an unknown product,,,,the quality & price were obvious,,,but it was the dealer and Hartley Peavey who promoted their product
to the fullest.
Fender was by far the "path" of least resistance,,,didnt have to sell a fender ,,but back when,,,,you couldnt give a Fender away,,,it had to prove itself,,,but it was the dealers who beleived in taking the time to promote the product that led to its success.

Not a long e mail and I wont "double post: I will just add a little "reverb" if all the dealers sold what is easiest to sell,,,what would happen to the other products out there waiting for their chance to be heard. Dont you agree that there are many fine potential steel players out there that need the chance to be heard? they have to pay their dues by doing everything possible to be heard.

Iam not a believer in the 'path of least resistance" too many dealers sit on their butt and depend on the manufacturers to do all the work,,,they sit back and wait for the product to sell itself,,,,sounds great,,,then what do you need the salesman for,,,if thats the case ,,,who needs the retail dealer? I think its a matter of a "test drive" for any new product,,,the product is not sold when the salesman sells it to the dealer. That is now the dealers responsibility to sell the product with help from the manufacturer. Its not supposed to be like the manufacturer gets the sale then the dealer in on his own,like we...got our money you own it now,,the so called sale is only complete from both the manufacturer's standpoint as well as the dealers who sells the product,,,and that is final when those famous last words are spoken by the customer "ILL TAKE IT" I give up there are there are dealers who "watch it happen" others who" make it happen" and those that say "what happened" it is those that" make it happen" who are successful,,,not the path of least resistance kind of people...but thats why the retail business is owned by the giants today & the mom and pop salt of the music business are a thing of the past,,,be well Copyright (c)2001 by Jody Carver ""All Rights Reserved"
Jody just my $10.00 worth "gotta make the donuts" PS NO I DONT KNOW WHO,,,give ne a clue...,,,

[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 29 March 2001 at 10:41 PM.]

posted 30 March 2001 08:56 AM         

J & B, as you both are well aware, one of the jobs of the salesman is to see that the customers' wants and needs are filled, and that his problems are solved. Sometimes the customer doesn't even realize he has a problem, and needs to have the situation shown to him... but if the guy's need is real but unrecognized, a good salesman will try to get him over whatever hump he's got and put him in the right product.

Sometimes a product is right for the situation, but the solution is unrecognized by the customer. That's where good selling comes in. But what Bobbe said is always true... if the product is wrong for the customer, a manipulative salesman will make one sale and one sale only, and probably have the customer tell all his friends what a conniver this so-and-so salesman is. End result is "nobody wins." That's why the "SWAT close" (Sell What's Available Today) usually backfires.

Most people know what they want, really. They just have hurdles they have to be helped over to make the correct decision. This is the psychological side of selling, making the customer realize that the product is the solution to their wants and needs. But it does have to be the correct product, regardless.

------------------
Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

posted 30 March 2001 09:14 AM         

There are some "best all around" guitars (MSA, Emmons, etc.) and some "best all around" tools (pliers, crescent wrench, etc.).

I have a completely restored nine pedal Fender 1000, (simply better than showroom quality). There are some sounds I get on this guitar that I cannot duplicate on my Emmons.

Let me give you this analogy:
If I'm going to a concert to hear Chet Atkins. I'd rather he would be playing a thin body Gretch than a Fender Stratocaster.

Rick

[This message was edited by Rick Collins on 30 March 2001 at 09:17 AM.]

posted 30 March 2001 01:38 PM         

I do beleive although we have the same ideas lets do it this way,,,we are in a studio,,,lets consider the previous conversation a "rehearsal ok???

Iam notorius for long winded conversations but I do try to explain as best as I can.

We are all tunes to A440 now we will try to blend our guitars to a level where none of us "overplays" the other,,,let let the world see that we all do agree,,but that from my perspective this is what I have always felt.

There have been many many small dealers who have been promoting a new product,,,,they have or many not had success with that product. My philosophy has always been to find out how I can help the dealer rather than having a "one time affair" loading him down with merchandise that may not be for his market.

I have alwys tried to use my own judgement regarding a dealers "stocking requirements" but more so than that,,,,Is this the right dealer?? will he handle the customers and give good service??

I have never ever made the dealer the "warehouse" for the companies I have worked for,,,I feel the companys responsibility is to warehouse the product for the dealer not the other way around,,,,you must allow me some time to clarify this,,,comments were made that did not apply to me,,,.I feel like Iam being interviewed for a sales appitude test,,,if that ever happened today ,,, I would be certain to fail.

The small dealer cannot buy in quantity as the large dealer,,,that is a disadvantage to the small dealer,,,,the small dealer on the other hand has more time if he is agreeable to spend with a customer,,,the large dealer has so much product etc,,,his main interest is turning product,,,which leads me to this old old story.

A salesman goes into a small or medium sized store in a marketing area and puts an "opening unrealistic order on the dealer.
The dealer needs and wants the product if he is unable to comply with the salesman's policy ,,,he is turned down,,,he then has to try to meet the financial requirements to get the dealership,,so in comes the merchandise,, I refer to that as the Jam sale,,,the merchandise is "jammed" down the dealers throat....he stuggles to move the merchandise,,,and when he find his is having difficulty tries to sell it at low prices,making a minimum of profit.

He wants to maintain his status as a "franchised dealer" his so called unrealistic inventory sits and sits and every morning this poor guy comes in and see's the same product sitting there he is now fearful the call from the credit dept will "dun" him what does he do???

Was it his fault that a "dont give a damm" salesperson "dumped on him",,,,he is told that unless he pays up he will be cut off as a dealer,,,fearful of that ,,,he calls non franchised dealer friends and offer to sell off the merchandise to them.....since most companies"frown" upon this practice called
"transhipping" he has no other alternative,,if he is found doing this he is told to stop that practice or he will be cut off,,,,This comment of being cut off is Illegal to start with,,,but at this point the dealer has no choice,,, I used to refer to this as the "enema" treatment if you will
"fill the dealer up with water" then tell him not to releive himself,,,who are they kidding,,,,I have objected openly regarding this practice all my life,,,fortunaltly this was not the case with the companies I represented,,,me being the salesman is the only connection between the dealer and the company,,,I refused to prositute myself to take advantage in this manner.

If the dealer on the other hand does meet his obligation to buy the suggested required anount of merchandise,,,he promotes the hell out of it and helps build the companys reputation,,,,then his reward comes,,,,,Mr. Dealer you have done a great job in this area ,,,,however we would like to open another account as our production has increased,,,the poor guy was just starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel when THE BIG HONCHO MEGA STORE says,,,I want the line,,,,,,sure he does,,,,the little guy busted his butt,,,then they move in and load the big dealer mega store none or lousy service if any,,,wait on line for an hour for a set of strings.

Does anyone hear me,??,,H E L L O are ya listening,,??, I dont care if you turn me off
here at this point,,I did sales all my life and have been up and above board all those years,,,I never used the "you must buy tactic" I did however ask the dealer depending on the size of market etc and the dealers ability TO ONLY BUY WHAT HE FELT HE WANTS THAT WILL MAKE HIM COMFORTABLE & a realistic amount of money he can comfortably pay within the company's payment time and feel comfortable with that,,,If he felt he could not do this,,,OK If he is sincere and I can READ THE GOOD ONES....I will let him try it for a while and always made this PROMISE "Written in Stone" I (JODY) will buy back or move the merchandise to another store
in another area,,,so he can try again,or refund his money on the spot out of my pocket.

I dont think either one of you know my track record as a salesman I was never a great steel guitar player,,,,but I always felt I was a compassionate human being and still do.

No hard feelings,,,just wanted you to know where I was coming from.

One of the very few manufacturers that has always had a policy of "dealing straight above board and would not tolerate any crap
regarding prosituting his line and that is HARTLEY PEAVEY,,,,,sorry for this fellows,,,you play better than I,,,and you are right in your comments,,,but those comments should be reserved for those who have monopolized the Music Industry and forced the medium and small dealers out..

NOT ME I am of a different quality of human being....I lost my last job because I didnt do what they felt was good business for them
I was "fired" first time in my life,,,5 days before Christmas,,,they treated me like they wanted me to treat their dealers,,, i took the fall,,, Im still here,,,you can tell by the length of this long and just as tiring maybe more so to write ,,,than for you to read....and this all started over the Fender 1000,,,if you want "delete me" write me off but I have MY SELF RESPECT and many former dealers of mine feel that same way about me.

Keep on picking,,,,,I look at the Music Industry today and if I were still doing it

I would sing EDDY ARNOLDS" LET THE WORLD GO AWAY" IM Outta here. Bobbe No I wont double post send me my flanges I dont want to have a 3rd leg,,,I wouldnt have a leg to stand on....bye bye love PS The man that fired me is long gone,,,what a terrible loss
Yeah Right so is his company Aloha,,Happy Trails to you and all that stuff ....
Copyright(c) 2001 by Jody Carver "All Rights Reserved

[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 30 March 2001 at 02:41 PM.]

posted 31 March 2001 11:25 AM         

This I will refer to as "THE LAST OUTPOST"

I read the comments re the 1000 at the start
of this thread, which by the way is great.

I saw negatives of opinions regarding what I felt was a "great guitar" in its time,,,and since I was a fender salesman at the time and for many years before and after..I wanted to "play" the "Devils Advocate" & with that came the long winded discussions re the ablity to please music dealers etc,,,the
so called "secrets" (not by me) of basically "how to sell".My only secret was the Best guitar ever, FENDER "my opinion"

I knew this was my chance after seeing the Fender 1000 once again come to life,,,both from a positive viewpoint as well as a negative side.

It worked,,,,I have to admit this and try to understand my reason....

I still have my "original" Fender 1000 right here with me, have had it since it first came out,,,it has 9 pedals rather than the standard 8 pedals...I have always thought it was a great sounding guitar,,,no way "thin" sounding as some people refer to it..

It is in new new condition,,,blonde with the chrome frame,,,and I used it for the cover on my "long Deleted" Coral LP However because of timing etc,,,co-ordinating recording companies schedule for the recording etc,,,I did not use the 1000 on the actual recording session.

It was and still is a GREAT guitar,,and is part of my "family of Fenders"...Iam sorry to have to had to cause'd all this commotion on this thread,,,but I just had to confess I couldnt keep this in any longer (grin).

It sits here with my Fender 4 neck
Stringmaster (blonde)
Triple neck custom (blonde)
and a couple of original Twin amps tweed.
Also(btw) none of these are for sale ever.

My 54 stratocaster blonde w/maple neck w/tremolo also orginal,,,these all have cases and are in mint condition.All cases mint as well.

This was mine since 1954 when I received it as a sample from Fender.

I also own an original D10 Emmons 9 pedal 6 knee lever black mica purchased from Ron Lashley in 69 another fine human being ...so the black Emmons sits here with the "blonde Fenders" what is that saying??? Blondes have more fun??? that may be true,,,but my family of blonde's has accepted the Emmons so we are all a happy family.

Thanks for the great thread,,,it gave Fender another boost Im happy you posted this topic.
As they often used in their ad's at FENDER
"YOU WONT PART WITH YOURS EITHER,",,and that is my philosophy when it comes to FENDER too.

Thanks for making this into a "fun and enjoyable topic Chris,,,sorry if I bored all of you with my long, long reply's

A friend of mine and a "Fender Fanatic" always ends his posts etc etc,,in this manner "IT"S FENDER OF COURSE" and I will echo Dave Van Allens signature....Thanks for the ride I enjoyed it,,My Fenders say Hi to all of you,,,,,

Fondest regards Jody Carver. PS another Fender ad said "Often Copied Never Equaled"
truer words were never spoken,,,,,Thank you
Leo........This will be my last reply or post on the Forum,,,I need time to play all these guitars and who knows how long I will live to do it.Gotta take the puppies out again BYE BYE one puppie is black the other is blonde& sunburst,,,no cases but
Legs included

[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 31 March 2001 at 11:40 AM.]

posted 02 April 2001 02:43 PM         

Speedy West's "endorsing" Fender ? or Buddy Emmons taking on the "position" of Fenders
Warhouse manager..

Sounds a bit off key to me,,,maybe you ought to ask Buddy,,,,get it first hand,,,,that is
if it's that important to you.

Anyone would have loved to have Emmons as an endorser,,,but there is something here that dont sit right.

Could this be a matter of "hearsay" ???
I beleive half of what see
and nothing of what I hear,,,check it out,,I dont see the importance here.

Speedy was a great manager of the Fender warehouse in Tulsa for many years,,,,he was every bit as good at that as he was a musician,,,,,,,but maybe it would satisfy the curious....different strokes for different folks applies here. As I said before ,,,and will repeat Leo was not the man who did any offers for endorsers,,,Donald D. Randall was "da man" only one I know of that was Leo's guy was Noel Boggs,,,,and that is because he was one of Fender early on endorsers,,,,,,History is History ,,,hearsay something else,,,not important anyway ......but something to write about on a rainy day.

[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 02 April 2001 at 03:44 PM.]

posted 02 April 2001 07:48 PM         

He built each table and bench with 3/4 inch marine plywood and lock jointed each one tables and chairs.

He did this at Music Man too,,,,those service men must have thought Leo was a weapon builder,,,he was something else,,,,sometimes I think he got carried away
but he was from the old school and his german backround meant stronger than strong.

Do you remember these names Paul.?

Donald D. Randall
Stan Compton
James (Jim) Williams
George Johanson

posted 02 April 2001 08:02 PM         

That pencil thing dont do anything,,must be out of lead and no eraser,,,bOb PLEASE HELP ME IM FALLING "" falling for you,,,no dammit thats the lyrics,,,whatzamatter witcha man
what are you going to do,,,??? cut my strings
ONCE IS ENOUGH OF ME BUT TWICE???? wait till the other guy who spells it Bobbe see's this wonder what he will think,,??,,"Im a Fool to Care" or pls bOb pls give "Just One More Chance" to prove to you that your'e the one I care for each nite I say a little prayer for, Just One More Chance NO Not You bOb Mary Ford sang that to Les ,,,Im not singin it to you
what do you think Iam what someone e mailed me ,,,,Oh how sweet it is....Ill be loving you Always,,,,,

[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 02 April 2001 at 09:29 PM.]

posted 02 April 2001 08:28 PM         

Don't worry about the double post; I read it again, and enjoyed it just as much as the first time!

------------------
B#

posted 03 April 2001 06:22 PM         

Jim was pretty upset over CBS purchasing Fender back in Jan 1965,,,,so with his dry sense of humor and a "dont give a damm attitude"....he went to a local undertaker in Santa Ana,,,,and asked permission to take a picture of a Fender guitar in a casket.

Jim is standing over the casket holding what appears to be a "bible" and is doing a "eulogy" over the "demise" of Fender as we knew it.

This got back to CBS corporate office and Jim was really reamed out,,,,I could tell you the whole story,as how Jim handled it from that point on,,,,,but is is really "wild and crazy",,,,he was a good guy
but realy took that CBS thing like a "death" in the family,,,,

Tried calling Don Randall today,,,but he on the golf course in Palm Springs,,,will send him your best when I reach him,,,Jody.

Lets make certain I dont double post this,,Im being watched and Iam on probation

posted 03 April 2001 07:46 PM         

I bought a Twin Reverd on the economy because
they didn't have any at the base exchanges I called. I suppose it was an export model but
the second time I turned it on, it smoked
the filter capacitors in the power supply.
I don't know who I worked with at Fender but I made a field modification to the power
supply and it worked. I suppose they used it
on export models and I saw it in later model
years in Aspen Pittman's library of Fender
schematics.

I may have gotten under the skin of current
Fender heirarchy by an Open Letter published
in SGWM May 99, issue #40. I sent them a copy of it first but after no response, I gave it to Russ Rask. These people, the first regime, were like a family to me. I
wrote for the love it and flaunted my Fender
possessions simply because they were the best
that could be had and I wanted nothing less.
That is what you said Leo wanted. Well, check
my last name. My father came from Barvaria
and he took nothing less from his 6 sons
either. Funny thing; he hated country music.
Damm Hillbillies he would say.

posted 03 April 2001 08:51 PM         

Too bad about your Pro amp,,,,rumor has it "shhhhh Bobbe Seymour was in Germany about that same time,,,,,think about it,,,

Dont sweat that Fender thing,, I dont think they ignored you,,,they just dont remember the people who were there when it "happened"
I called three times and asked about touch up paint ,,,no reply,,,its like baseball today,,,they forget the pro's of yesterday,,,
Will tell you about Jim Williams one of these days,,,,dont tell anyone the world is weird and getting weirder ,,,look into that Pro amp deal, may be something there,,, I know Bobbe was in the "battle of the Bulge" or was it the "Invasion Of Normandie"??? Oh yeah Ya know what else I heard?? Bobbe wore that same hat then that he wears today instead of a "helmut" strange guy he is...but he plays Okay not great but fair,,& really not so good either in fact I think he is a big "showoff" with that big hat he wears,,,,dont tell him please,,,he's bigger than Iam and richer too,,,

[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 03 April 2001 at 08:57 PM.]

posted 04 April 2001 06:10 AM         

Come to think of it Sinatra wore ahat too,,must be one of those "rat pack things,,,ya know "way cool" now I know ,,,I think,,,Bobbe is a happening kinda dude but too who,,,Scooby scooby doo strangers in the night,,,,,

[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 04 April 2001 at 06:15 AM.]

posted 05 April 2001 10:40 AM         

The only Fender that I played professionaly was the Fender 400 or was it 800, anyway it had 8 strings, 4 pedals and one knee lever. I had to play that 3 nights a week for 6 months waiting for my D12 MSA. It played pretty good, but of course, It didn't have all the strings and pulls I needed for my 6th stuff. It was a sort of E9 setup.

Jody-Wow! What a lot of history on your post and lots of info. Thanks. I still have those old Frets Articles too.

I used to own a Music store and was a franchised Gibson Guitar dealer and also had Fender for a while.
With Gibson, we had a 40% markup and with Fender it was 50% markup.
I sold a lot of Es 125, (a good lowpriced buy) and L5'L7's , with pickguard pickups. No holes.ES-295, ES-395, Les Paul's etc.
I had a lot of guitar students. But very few Steel guitar students. Les Paul was the Big Guy then.....al

[This message was edited by Al Marcus on 05 April 2001 at 10:52 AM.]

quote:

---

wonder why he wears it all the time???

---

posted 05 April 2001 06:08 PM         

I have joked with Bobbe re:his hat only from an innocent point of view,,,I did not do it to insult him nor embarass him in any way.

It was just a running bit of humor with no intention seeing it blown out of proportion so as not to ignore your comment,,,I would like to put this to "rest" and reply to your comment by saying" "I wont go there". Bobbe is a fine player as well as a fine guy& I think he is up to having a good time too,,but,he too would not do it at anyones expense,,,I hope you agree.

This has been a long and interesting & times
humorous thread,,, I would like to feel it will end in the same manner that it was intended,,,,Thank you for understanding.

[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 05 April 2001 at 06:16 PM.]