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B-->Bb 5th string lower
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The Steel Guitar Forum
Pedal Steel Archive
B-->Bb 5th string lower
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This topic was originally posted in this forum: Pedal Steel |
| Author | Topic: B-->Bb 5th string lower |
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Greg Vincent Member Posts: 727 |
posted 27 August 1999 10:17 AM
Hi folks! I've noticed that 90% of the time folks choose the B-->Bb 5th string lower as their vertical lever on E9. I presume that's primarily used to get a minor with A&B pedals down. But doesn't that require a tuneable split with the raise on the A pedal? Greg ------------------ |
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Paul Crawford unregistered Posts: 727 |
posted 27 August 1999 11:44 AM
Greg: The 5th string lower will give you a minor in the pedal down position, but I don't think that is where most folks use it. You can get the same minor one fret up with the E-Eb lower and have more options. I think a more usual usage is as an accent note when plying in 6th or 3rds with the 5 string. An example of what I'm talking about would be the steel break in Vince Gill's "Don't Come Cryin' to Me" by John Hughey. This particular change is one of John's favorites and sounds very "Hughey-isk". It adds a lot of nice color to otherwise bland changes. BTW, Carter does offer tunable splits, but for the most part people don't fool with the 5th string split. It's a momentary change, (unless you're after the minor), and typically not "worth the trouble" of a split tune, (it's pretty close to in tune with standard gauge strings anyway.) Hope this helps! Paul |
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Bobby Lee Sysop Posts: 14849 |
posted 27 August 1999 12:03 PM
I don't have the change, but I always assumed that its main uses were 1) to get a II7 chord rooted on the 7th string, and 2)to get a major7 with the Eb lever. Also, it provides a much needed scale note at the IV position (8th fret in G, for example, it gives you the F#). ------------------ |
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J D Sauser Member Posts: 1240 |
posted 27 August 1999 01:51 PM
On my guitar I don't need a tunable split to have the B-to-Bb-lower and the A-pedal in tune, when used together. It kind'a just gets right all by it self, and I would think that this may be the case on most all-pulls properly adjusted. I use it a lot on my universal and have therefore found it to be more comfortable on my LKR (for me!). There are many things that can be done with this change... Among these, is to play a diminished together with A&B, the E-to-Eb-lever and that B-to-Bb-lever (include the F# strings!). Now, without the F# strings, lets say playing strings 8, 6 and 5, with A&B, E-to-Eb and the B-to-Bb-lever, it creates a good dom7th, the same you'd have 1 fret above with strings 9, 5 and 6 without pedals, which can come in handy as now you can play that seventh on the basic string groups, so you could actually slide into it from an other position, or slide from it into another position. Also once there, if you'd which to go up a IVth (like a I to a IV or a V to a I), you could just release the B-to-Bb-knee lever, making it a 7th augmented, and then up a fret with A&B only or down a fret with the E-to-Eb-lever only or what ever, up a IVth.... ... J-D. |
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Bill cole Member Posts: 694 |
posted 27 August 1999 08:06 PM
Greg there are so many uses for that change it would take all of the forum but a good way to hear that change is to listen to the song togather again yhough I don't think Tom Brumley had that B to Bb change he sure made it sound like itand thats only one listen to some Emmons stuff and count the times he uses it on Ray Price stuff and on Gene Watson try playing 3 and 5 strings togather and droping back 2 frets and lowering the B to Bb you will like it just try some expermenting with it you will be suprised I have it on mine but not with a split mine comes back in tune when I push the a pedal and lower the Bto Bb it splits to a Cnote |
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C Allen Member Posts: 441 |
posted 27 August 1999 10:21 PM
Gregg, Bob is absolutely correct. Thei is what that lever/change is used for. As far as splits go, I have mine on my 6th string, it give you this very cute 7th. As for where to put it, I have it (B-Bb) on my LKL#2. The vertical is used for F#-G#, on string 1. It's a little dificult to use the verticle lever, while mashing pedals. I didn't say it can't be done, just awkward. ------------------ |
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Terry Downs Member Posts: 444 |
posted 31 August 1999 09:44 PM
Greg, I believe the big trend toward using this pull on the vertical lever started with the universal tuning. The very common lever on C6 (normally lowers the 3rd string from C to B) is implemented on the E9/B6 universal with the X lever (5th string B to Bb). Some universal steels have a very long lever that can be actuated when using pedals 1 through 8 while the LKR is omitted or folded out of the way. In regard to E9 only the X lever sounds like "Together Again". I think the original was played without it. It sounds like it was played by using other combinations like 2 frets back with the D lever. If you are playing E9 only, the lever is of less practical use. ------------------ [This message was edited by Terry Downs on 08-31-99] |
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Earnest Bovine Member Posts: 4687 |
posted 31 August 1999 10:46 PM
B -> A# is a short and easy pull which makes it a good candidate for the up lever. |
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Keith Hilton Member Posts: 1649 |
posted 01 September 1999 07:33 AM
Greg, I lower both the 5th and 10th string with my right knee right. It does create a minor with A&B pedals down. That's not where I use it the most. I use it in what I call the (9th chord)position. What I mean is all the sets of strings are 9th chords. Without any pedals or knee levers engaged, you have a C position at the 8th fret on the E9th neck. When I lower my 5th and 10th strings---AND MOVE BACK TO THE 6th FRET---I have all C9th chords. Also, all the notes in this position then come out of a C scale. This is a good change, no matter where you put it. Yes, I would advise having it on your guitar. ------------------ |
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Greg Vincent Member Posts: 727 |
posted 01 September 1999 10:27 AM
Thanks everybody for sharing your knowledge about this change. I'm currently raising my high E--->F# with my vertical. This might seem like a waste but I love this change. However, the B--->Bb does sound more versatile! My friend's new Carter (in blue-sparkle mica!) is shipping with this change and I look forward to trying all your ideas (if I can get him away from his new axe for two seconds!). GV |
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