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Mullen 2nd & 9th string knee lever ?
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The Steel Guitar Forum
Pedal Steel Archive
Mullen 2nd & 9th string knee lever ?
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This topic was originally posted in this forum: Pedal Steel |
| Author | Topic: Mullen 2nd & 9th string knee lever ? |
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John Moss Member Posts: 156 |
posted 01 July 2000 04:23 PM
I was wondering if anyone could tell me how to get the 9th string D to C# lower to shake hands with the 2nd string lower D# to D to C#. This is on a Mullen SD10. The 9th string starts to engage a little before I reach the proper pitch on the first lower of my second string. I have to set the 9th string that way because if I do not there is not enough travel in the knee lever to get the 9th to lower to the proper tuning. If I put more travel in the knee before it stops to cure this it throws the second lower of the 2nd string off. I am not off very much on where I want to get with the tuning. I would just like to know if there is a way to get it perfect or if pretty close is the best you can do. I am using my bell cranks set for shorter throw and stiffer feel as well as my changer lowers on both strings. They are in the bottom hole farthest from the bottom of the guitar. The return lever mechanism is resting on the body with no lever engaged and I can't see no way to add travel to it. It may be something simple and I am not seeing it. This is the first guitar I have had with the double lower on the 2nd string and the 9th string lower on the same lever. I will be grateful for any input. Thanks, John Mullen SD10 3&5 [This message was edited by John Moss on 01 July 2000 at 05:12 PM.] |
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Jon Light Member Posts: 6528 |
posted 01 July 2000 04:32 PM
John--if I'm following your description, when you say the bell cranks are set for long throws---to me that means you are using the positions closer to the underside of the guitar. I think that if you hook up the 9th string at the bellcrank on a position farther from the guitar you will gain more rod travel. Therefore you will back off on the nylon tuner, therefor there will be more slack on the 9th string, therefore it will engage later in the throw. Does this sound right? |
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John Moss Member Posts: 156 |
posted 01 July 2000 05:07 PM
Hi Jon, I have the bell cranks on the last hole farthest from the bottom of the guitar. I gives me a shorter faster pull but is a little stiffer on feel. Sorry about the mix up. I will try and edit the first message to prevent confusion. Thank You, John Mullen SD10 3&5 |
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Jon Light Member Posts: 6528 |
posted 01 July 2000 05:53 PM
Yeah John--that changes my answer. My new answer is "sorry, I don't know".  |
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C Dixon Member Posts: 5912 |
posted 01 July 2000 06:26 PM
John, I know nothing about a Mullen. But I do know that on guitars that use the allen "split" screws to the right of the top of the changer, what you want to do, can easily be done. Assuming your Mullen has these "split" screws, do this: 1. Tune the 2nd string lower to a C# as normal. 2. Now using the nylon tuner for the 9th string, tune it to "feel" the D note on the 2nd string, as it just begins to start moving. 3. Then tune the 9th string lower to C# with the allen "split" screw. In other words, it permits you to do just exactly what you want, PLUS it allows for the half stop "feel" on the second string at the same time! If you have these screws (or if Mullen can install them), and you would like to call me, I would be happy to help you with it. 770-448-8455 God bless you, carl |
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John Moss Member Posts: 156 |
posted 01 July 2000 06:47 PM
Thanks Jon and Carl, My Mullen has no tuneable half stops or split tuners. I am within a few cents or so of what I would like to have. I may be as close as I can get. Nothing Major. Thanks, John Mullen SD10 3&5 |
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KEVIN WALKER Member Posts: 208 |
posted 01 July 2000 08:15 PM
John, I had the same problem with my MSA-12. I tried a dozen different ways, to time that same stop. I never got it exactly in sequence. I also play an MCI. This second and ninth set-up came easily. I'll check my set-up and let you know. |
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Jim Smith Member Posts: 6399 |
posted 01 July 2000 08:52 PM
The way we did it at Dekley should work for you. You'll need two rods for the 9th string, the regular lower rod and a raise rod. Adjust your linkage so the 9th string lowers a little further than C# at full travel and the raise rod doesn't quite engage. Tune the 2nd string to C# at full travel. Tune the 2nd string to D by adjusting the 9th string so it just starts to pull when the 2nd string is at D. Now the 9th string should pull too far. With the lever at full travel, adjust the raise rod on 9 to pull it back up to C#. Hope this makes some sense and works for you. ------------------ |
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Al Marcus Member Posts: 7471 |
posted 01 July 2000 10:16 PM
Hi Jim, I think you got the answer for a steel that don't have those split screws. I notice that Emmons,Williams, Excell, Fessenden, has those split screws. I wonder why Mullen or Carter don't.? Seeems like a good idea. And necessary for close tuning. .......al |
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John Moss Member Posts: 156 |
posted 02 July 2000 06:53 AM
Hey Jim that is a good idea. You could really fine tune that way. Like I mentioned I am in there very close but I just thought there may be a way to feather it a little more.If I tuned straight up 440 I could nail it. I tune a little lower though and need that little bit more. Thanks, John Mullen SD10 [This message was edited by John Moss on 02 July 2000 at 06:54 AM.] |
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C Dixon Member Posts: 5912 |
posted 02 July 2000 07:04 AM
Al, You bring up an interesting point. There are two ways I know of to "split" the note when one raises or lowers a string a whole tone and then lowers or raises it a half tone with another lever or pedal, simultaneoulsy. I have used several of these "splits" on both my Emmons' LeGrande and my former Sierra. The Sierra uses the "two pull rod" method mentioned by the Dekley poster. The Emmons' uses the allen screws. I prefer the allen screw method the best. Of some interest, is the way Mitsuo does it on the new Excel Super B model. The allen screws are to the left of the changer on top. Because of this and his genious he angled the screws so a tool could turn it without touching the "split" string. He also molded a very nice plastic knob on this allen tool. Plus the slickest place for storing this tool and the other two "knobbed" tools. The reason he had to do it this way is, the new design changer has no finger that moves to the right when lowering. This necessitated him putting the screws to the left of the changer. But the thing he did that is so nice. He made it estheticlly very appealing to the eye. Bill Stafford, if you are reading this, he did it differently on my guitar. It is very nice. Another bit of trivia: On my "splits", I have one case where I will be using BOTH the allen screw AND the two pull rod type of splits on the same string. The reason for this is I need 2 different pitch "splits" for the same note. See what JI gets you into!! Now, if my ears could ever get used to ET, I would not have to do this. Oh well, what is that about teaching an ole dog new............. God bless all of you on this, HIS day, carl |
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John Moss Member Posts: 156 |
posted 02 July 2000 09:35 AM
Hey fellows how would this work. I could adjust the first 2nd string lower to D with my 9th string tuning nut as a half stop as usual. Then I could adjust the 9th string lower to C# with my knee lever stop. This will inturn make the second lower of the 2nd string to C# be flat. If I had another pull rod I could install it on the 2nd string raise changer I could feather the C# on the 2nd string in with it. The raise rod seems like it would never engage until I used it to adjust the C# on the 2nd string. This is just a theory without having the rod to install. It is about the same as Jim's cure but on the 2nd string instead of the 9th. Adios, John Mullen SD10 |
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C Dixon Member Posts: 5912 |
posted 02 July 2000 10:08 AM
John, If I understand you correctly, this is exactly what Sierra's and Franklin's do to accomplish a tuneable "split". I believe Carter may do this too, and maybe Mullen, but I am not sure. I know of some guitars that did not have the allen "split" screw, where they drilled and tapped a hole in the bar that is to the right of the changer and made it just like the Emmons. The problem I have with the extra rod "splitting" is, it may use a possible needed "raise" hole in the changer finger. carl |
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Earnest Bovine Member Posts: 4687 |
posted 02 July 2000 11:05 PM
John Before you try some of these fancy solutions, are you sure that you've tried all the simple ones? I mean: have you tried all the combinations of which hole on the changer lower bar, and which hole or slot on the rod puller? Chances are that you can get very, very close to in tune for all 3 notes (D,C#, and low C#) without adding any extra hardware. Don't forget that you can also get different pitches by trying a slightly different string gauge. |
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John Moss Member Posts: 156 |
posted 03 July 2000 05:21 AM
Hi Earnest, I am in the ballpark on all strings. I would just like to be able to get a little closer. I have to use the knee stop anyway to fine tune the second lower of the 2nd string and if I can add that one pull rod and it would help the matter I would prefer to do it. I have not tried other string gauges though. I have the standard 15 on the 2nd and 34 on the 9th. Does a larger gauge string come to pitch faster or slower than a smaller gauge? I have tried and thought out the pull holes and it has to be what it is to get as close as I am now. Thanks, John Mullen SD10 |
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Jon Graboff Member Posts: 225 |
posted 03 July 2000 09:00 AM
John, Contact Del Mullin about his tunable half stop. It's about $35 very simple to install and works. And as an added attraction, you can adjust the tension of the half stop position taking the guess work out of hitting the right spot. |
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John Moss Member Posts: 156 |
posted 03 July 2000 09:56 AM
Hi Jon, I did just that. We were thinking the same. I e-mailed him about it. That is cheap enough to make things easy. Thanks, John Mullen SD103&5 |
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