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What gave you your biggest steel playing improvement ever? (Page 1)
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The Steel Guitar Forum
Pedal Steel Archive
What gave you your biggest steel playing improvement ever? (Page 1)
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| This topic is 2 pages long: 1 2 This topic was originally posted in this forum: Pedal Steel |
| Author | Topic: What gave you your biggest steel playing improvement ever? |
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Bill Llewellyn Member Posts: 1882 |
posted 28 October 2001 05:36 PM
What is the one steel playing technique, trick, or change (to you or to your guitar) which has helped you the most in your steel playing years? I'm looking for the single most effective thing you've ever done which has helped your overall playing. Something more specific than "getting the right hand technique down pat" or "learning pick blocking". I'm looking for very simple but truly "life changing" things. It can be something as simple as going to a metal thumb pick or as complex as a new copedent. But hopefully it is something you can convey in a few words which the rest of us can readily grasp and maybe even go sit down at our steels and try. So, what bubbles up to the top of your list? ------------------ |
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Donny Hinson Member Posts: 9192 |
posted 28 October 2001 05:56 PM
I'd say "personalizing" the guitar to fit me! That means putting my own changes (where I wanted them) and moving the knee levers to where I thought they were most comfortable. When I sit down behind my guitar (and my guitar alone) it fits me like a glove. "Playing comfort" makes playing so much more enjoyable. [This message was edited by Donny Hinson on 28 October 2001 at 05:57 PM.] |
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BobbeSeymour Member Posts: 5664 |
posted 28 October 2001 05:57 PM
I'm still waiting for mine! |
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Bobby Lee Sysop Posts: 14849 |
posted 28 October 2001 06:00 PM
I agree, Donny. I always felt really awkward on the C6th until I got a Sho-bud Cross-over. Then I realized that my main problem was the sitting position. Bill Rudolph built me a Williams cross-over so that the pedals and knee levers would be right where they're comfortable when I play the back neck. Suddenly my C6th playing literally blossomed. Getting a guitar to "fit" your body is the biggest thing, in my opinion. ------------------ |
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Dennis Detweiler Member Posts: 1700 |
posted 28 October 2001 06:50 PM
I played a D-10 for the first 8 yrs and struggled to learn how to get around on the C6th while playing basic swing on E9th. I went to a U-12 and it all fell into place. The extention of the chords made sense, plus the added pedals. And the fret positions were the same on E9 and B6. The logic seemed good!  |
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Dave Van Allen Member Posts: 5369 |
posted 28 October 2001 07:53 PM
purchasing my Zum U12 made the single most dramatic change in my playing. Several things fell into place because of this: 1. I stopped using a compressor, cause I finally had a guitar with real sustain. My right hand technique flaws became immediately apparent, and therefore "treatable" 2. the guitar "fit me"... I am tall and had a leg extension package as part of my order... I no longer play "downhill" (back legs extended to allow my legs to fit beneath the guitar. 3. After using the back neck of my D10 as an armrest (mainly) for 20 years, I finally like Dennis had a "cosmic 'aha!'" about 6th tuning related stuff, although I tend to look at the U12 as 'one big tuning' not split in two 'sides'... [This message was edited by Dave Van Allen on 28 October 2001 at 07:56 PM.] |
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Tom Gorr Member Posts: 282 |
posted 28 October 2001 08:00 PM
I fully agree with the above, and add the following: 1) As a newbie, I found that developing a personal copedant really forced me to discover and understand the relationships between the feet and knees. The forum certainly provided the motivation to find a "better way". About 18 months ago, there was a lot of discussion on non-standard copedants and I remember Carl Dixon saying he had drawn out every possible combination. What a great way to "understand" the instrument. Personalized copedant = creative motivation to learn pedal and lever combinations. 2) Refining the personalized copedant through iterative teardowns and reassemblies helped engrain the understanding of the relationships between, and had the further benefit of getting rid of "black box syndrome". 3) Then Joe Wright taught me how to pick block! At this point - the veterans can probably tell I am a rank amateur (o.k. 3 years and progressing). I can improvise pretty good, and things are becoming instinctive. Instinctive is boring ! Now, I am seeking a "life changing" motivation to get me to a level where I can improvise fast single note runs all over the neck, with hammer-ons/offs too. Any ideas or experiences? |
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Ziggie Member Posts: 101 |
posted 28 October 2001 08:05 PM
For myself it was listening to some of the older swing (no pedals) sounds. I got rid of the doubleneck and went to a single E9 and started using a lap steel for swing tunes because I enjoy those older sounds more for that tuning anyway. I went to an E13 tunning for swing and it opened the doors much better for me then the C6 for some reason. Now I can do both pedal and non pedal with the added benifit of a lot less weight to carry around. I went from about 80 lbs to 30 lbs and a lap steel for my swing tunes. The lap has steel also gives me some to prespective on my pedal steel also. Ziggie |
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chas smith Member Posts: 3168 |
posted 28 October 2001 08:14 PM
When I quit trying to sound and play like my heroes. |
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Ray Montee Member Posts: 4090 |
posted 28 October 2001 08:41 PM
For me....it was learning to make those difficult 1st and 2nd string back-slants on C6th tuning, along with a multitude of slant effects using 1st and 3rd strings; 1st and 4th strings; and swiveling the bar so as to make a back-slant a straight barred position after picking the 2nd, 4th and 5th strings. The bar work as in One Rose by Jerry Byrd is a classic example of what I refer to. It made it possible for me to sustain a melody line by utilizing the bar slanting technique. |
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Bob Mainwaring Member Posts: 918 |
posted 28 October 2001 09:23 PM
Bill, I think most of the things that the guys have come back with are all good. The sitting position is a big thing and I think that most guys kind of fit to the steel instead of fitting the steel to the person. I think that each "tryout" move is basicly an improvement as to wheather you accept it or not and working on the good things and building on them. The Hilton pedal for instance was a great step forward in my sound so as to "bolster" what I already had laid down. Like a lot of guys, I used to sit dead centre for years before I realised that I should have set-up slightly to the right basicly centred on the 12th fret or slightly higher. My D10 levers were altered to my fit as I`m a big barstool with huge legs and feet too; while I was at it I made them easily adjustable from side to side which was a big plus in playing comfort. I also think that being sat comfortable - a better easier night will be achieved. Bob Mainwaring. Z.Bs.and other weird things. ------------------ |
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Herb Steiner Member Posts: 6119 |
posted 28 October 2001 09:55 PM
The most recent improvement in my playing came when Jim Loessberg began playing drums in Johnny Bush's band and I realized that more attention was being paid to my playing than ever before. Jim's presence motivates me to get serious about learning the classic songs and solos more intently, and to improve my technique through practice and discipline. Jim is as great a drummer as he is a steel player, incidentally. And a good, good friend. ------------------ [This message was edited by Herb Steiner on 28 October 2001 at 09:56 PM.] |
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Jerry Roller Member Posts: 3906 |
posted 28 October 2001 10:13 PM
I had Bryan Adams build me an Emmons D10 push/pull in 1981. That was the single most important step I took toward improvement in my playing. Jerry |
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Mike Weirauch Member Posts: 3528 |
posted 28 October 2001 10:20 PM
I have to agree with Dave Van Allen. I got a new Zoom D-10 in May and it changed the way I play because now the guitar does not work me, I work it. It is as smooth to play as a baby's butt and has the greatest string separation I've ever heard, not to mention sustain. After a trial period with various toys and whistles, I found the perfect combination for my guitar and my ears and I'm as happy as a clam with it. Did I mention it has a great tone and looks fantastic? I still play my Buddy Ebson Guitar occasionally but I always go back to the Zoom. |
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Jack Stoner Sysop Posts: 8119 |
posted 29 October 2001 06:42 AM
The biggest thing that helped me was the year I spent in Nashville picking the brains of people such as Hank Corwin. And, learning to think in licks was probably the most significant thing, for backup. I've had other significant help, such as George Lewis teaching me how to palm block, etc, but the thinking in licks opened up a whole new world for me. |
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Steve Stallings Member Posts: 2065 |
posted 29 October 2001 07:41 AM
Probably the most significant event that changed my playing was being asked to play steel for Jeff Coffells "Plumb Country" about 10 years ago. I had not been playing that long and was in a pretty pitiful band that didn't play much. Playing with Jeffs band for several years ( a lot of playing) and playing with good muscians forced me to improve. There is nothing like several sets of playing a week to force your hand. ------------------ |
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Bill Terry Member Posts: 1021 |
posted 29 October 2001 08:40 AM
I started making board tapes of most our shows. Nothing gets me more motivated to improve than hearing what I 'hacked' during a gig. I don't know why, but listening to yourself play on tape after the fact is TOTALLY different than listening to yourself live. ------------------ |
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Johan Jansen Member Posts: 2207 |
posted 29 October 2001 10:00 AM
trying to copy the Franklin "aproach". Listening to a song without steelguitar in mind, but opening my ears for what a song needs. 90 % of my notes dissapeared, and I focussed on my job: making music..... JJ |
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Jerry Horner Member Posts: 286 |
posted 29 October 2001 10:12 AM
The time when my freind Bobby Koefer came to hear me play and I played a bunch of Koefer licks. When I came down from the bandstand he said "Do you know you sound just like Bobby Koefer, you damn sure don't sound like Jerry Horner". I never again tried to copy anyone. Jerry |
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Kenny Dail Member Posts: 2583 |
posted 29 October 2001 12:18 PM
What Donny Said. ------------------ |
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Bob Carlson Member Posts: 1063 |
posted 29 October 2001 01:14 PM
DONNY, Don't have a heart attack or nothing like that, but I AGREE with you. I had a 1976 MSA, that for smooth pedal action beat my SD-10 Emmons all to heck. But the location of the knees just didn't work. The Emmons setup, LKL raise E's, LKR lower E's Is just a natural movement for me. The next was finding I had to set In front of the 17th fret. There are others, but those are the main two. So I agree that you It has to fit you. Bob Carlson [This message was edited by Bob Carlson on 29 October 2001 at 01:15 PM.] |
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Gene Jones Member Posts: 5796 |
posted 29 October 2001 02:47 PM
The best thing I ever did to improve my playing was when I became completely "burned out" in 1970 and decided to stop playing suddenly and completely....I didn't take my guitar out of the case for 12 years, I never entered a club, and I very seldom ever listened to music. When I was finally ready to play again in 1982, I bought new equipment and had to learn to play almost from scratch. It took about two years before I felt competent enough to work professionally again, but in the process I left behind my old habits and the rut I was in, and became a better player than I had ever been before. www.genejones.com |
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Gary Lee Gimble Member Posts: 932 |
posted 29 October 2001 03:03 PM
Nothing yet!  Gary Lee |
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Joe Henry Member Posts: 909 |
posted 29 October 2001 03:36 PM
Changing copedents has not drastically improved my playing but made me feel more comfortable with the thing. BTW, I prefer both E string changes on the right knee, the opposite of the "standard Emmons" approach. Something crucial happened when after six months or so the guy I bought my present steel from finally told me to keep my right forearm straight, elbow close to the body and not bend it outwards. It took me a long time to really get that down and realize how important it is. |
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Jim Cohen Member Posts: 8715 |
posted 29 October 2001 05:35 PM
1) The time I spent with Jeff Newman. 2) Listening to all kinds of music, including classical 3) Getting Band-in-a-Box, and making it play ii-V-I changes over and over, all afternoon, while I work out ideas. [This message was edited by Jim Cohen on 29 October 2001 at 07:13 PM.] |
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gary darr Member Posts: 294 |
posted 29 October 2001 06:31 PM
When I Got a real steel amp to play through(Session 500),was inspired by the tone from it. I still can'nt believe I played through that old deuce all those years......... ------------------ |
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rayman unregistered Posts: 294 |
posted 29 October 2001 07:03 PM
Changing teachers. The first guy I had taught no theory or technique, just out of context licks. When I switched to a teacher who taught me interval and harmony theory, ear training, left and right hand technique I started to advance as a steel player. |
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John De Maille Member Posts: 521 |
posted 29 October 2001 07:04 PM
I have to say, that, Jeff Newman made all the clouds disappear so the sun could shine, and show me the way. Before him, I was stumbling around like a lost soul, looking for direction. All the little tricks and finesses were laid wide open for me.Of course, I had to practise like hell, and am still doing so, to hone my craft. But, he was the biggest influence that turned my steel life around. Getting better equipment also helped me, but, Jeff was the biggest change. |
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John Paul Jones Member Posts: 305 |
posted 29 October 2001 07:45 PM
My first great improvement in my sound was when I first put my steel back in the case. Steve. How did you keep a job with Jeff for so long? I only lasted 3 weeks. He said I had my own style 'cause no body else wanted it. ------------------ GFI U-12 |
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Bob Carlson Member Posts: 1063 |
posted 29 October 2001 08:37 PM
Oh Rayman....to have a teacher like your 2nd one would be great. We're moving down to north west Phoenix next May, and I hope to find one. Bob Carlson. |
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rayman unregistered Posts: 1063 |
posted 29 October 2001 08:58 PM
Hey guys, can anyone help Bob here with a teacher in his area? I know what its like to feel lost on the steel. I'm sure that it makes people want to give up. Lets try to refer a good teacher to him. |
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Larry Behm Member Posts: 1686 |
posted 30 October 2001 05:26 AM
Buying a PP Emmons. Larry Behm |
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Rick Aiello Member Posts: 3155 |
posted 30 October 2001 08:41 AM
Video tapein' EVERY practice session. That way I get to do a 2 hr performance every day and then that night I get a 2 hr concert. And talk about a tough audience.... |
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Bill Fall Member Posts: 188 |
posted 30 October 2001 09:22 AM
Short answer: A week with Jeff Newman. Longer answer: Add to that a week with Emmons at the old Jeffran College, plus several hours of lessons from Buddy Charleton, and many more hours with Freddy Hart's excellent steeler from the 70s, J.D. Walters. |
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Robert Todd Member Posts: 351 |
posted 30 October 2001 01:03 PM
Buying my first U12 and then attending a one week top gun course at the Jeffran college followed by 9 months of weekly lessons from Buddy Charleton really helped me "Know my Guitar" |
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slick Member Posts: 560 |
posted 30 October 2001 03:48 PM
Secrets & shortcuts by Maurice Anderson.
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Bob Hoffnar Member Posts: 4278 |
posted 30 October 2001 11:38 PM
One big thing that helped my playing when I was starting out was to have Billy Cooper look up from his work bench while he was fixing some mangled new brilliant lever idea I put on my steel and say : " If you spent more time on top of your guitar instead of under it you would be a better player by now." I stopped tinkering right then and there. Another big thing was getting out and gigging as soon as possible. Bob |
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Larry Behm Member Posts: 1686 |
posted 31 October 2001 05:20 AM
Let me add that teaching others has really made a difference in the approach I take to playing and how simple and easy it can be once we break the it down. I mentioned the PP in my post above, other PP players told me it would change the way I play, I didn't believe them, I was wrong. You have to have played one to know what I mean. Larry Behm |
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Dave Van Allen Member Posts: 5369 |
posted 31 October 2001 08:49 AM
quote: Billy says more with fewer words than most folks I know. true words to live by thanks for sharing Bob |
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Mark Ardito Member Posts: 819 |
posted 31 October 2001 11:07 AM
2 things happened for me... 1. Went to the Michigan Steel Convention last year. As a newbie who does not get to see ANY steel players in Chicago, I got to see a TON of great players. One important thing I noticed is how relaxed they are when they play and how little effort in body movement they had. I went home and relaxed at the ol' Sho~Bud and my playing started to take off! 2. I had Mr. Seymour work on my Sho~Bud and put the Marrs changer on it and now she is a smooth sailing machine! Biggest thing was relaxing at the steel. Mark |
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