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.22P vs .22W (Page 2)
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The Steel Guitar Forum
Pedal Steel Archive
.22P vs .22W (Page 2)
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| This topic is 2 pages long: 1 2 This topic was originally posted in this forum: Pedal Steel |
| Author | Topic: .22P vs .22W |
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Jeff Hyman Member Posts: 375 |
posted 17 December 2001 05:37 PM
Am I alone on using .22P (E9) in place of the .22W? Ninty-Nine percent of all PSG string sets seems to have .22 wound... and I end up having to buy a 10-pack of the .22 Plains. I like the byte of the plain. If I'm a rare case here then it makes sence the way it is. Just wondering. If I'm not alone, then why aren't more sets offered with the plain. Jeff Hyman jeff@cactus.com |
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rayman unregistered Posts: 375 |
posted 17 December 2001 06:01 PM
Er, Jeff, sorry, but I think you got it backwords. I never saw a steel set with a 22 wound. |
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Winnie Winston Member Posts: 542 |
posted 17 December 2001 07:23 PM
never paid much attention to sets... I went to a wound 6th string when I built my own and lots of body flex, and a plain string-- well you sure heard it. Since then, I've alwauys used wounds. I did get a few sets some time back, and they always had wounds in them. JW |
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Bob Carlson Member Posts: 1063 |
posted 17 December 2001 07:59 PM
Being a short timer on steel, there's a lot of things I've never tried and yet to learn, but I would think a wound would sound flat. But I can tell you one thing I did learn about a .022 plain. I cut the string to short when putting on a set and ended up with only 2 or 3 winds instead my usual 5 or 6 but thought If It breaks I'll just put on another one. I'd been playing just a short time when the string broke at the tuner shaft, and It drove that string about 1/4" Into my hand and It was sore a long time. BC. |
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B Cole unregistered Posts: 1063 |
posted 17 December 2001 08:18 PM
I been using 22W for a few years now better tuning better sound wear like iron. Also use a 12 for the G# and it never breaks and much better sounding the the 11 or 10 |
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Tim Rowley Member Posts: 957 |
posted 17 December 2001 08:22 PM
Jeff, I don't know what brand of strings you are using, but in this neck of the woods I can't even find a set of E9th strings with an .022 wound anymore. GHS, George L's, Jagwires, all come with a plain 6th string. Jagwires give you various gauge choices though. In the plain strings you can specify .011 or .0115, .017 or .018, and .020 or .022. In the wound strings you have your choice of .036 or .038 on the 10th string. Personally I can't stand a wound .022. Once I did try a .022 wound but it was all my changer would do to lower it a full step and it sounded bad to my ear. So I said the heck with it and went back to an .022 plain immediately. Why don't you order a set or two or Jagwires and give 'em a try? You can order them from b0b (Bobby Lee Quasar) here on the Forum or direct from Danny Hullihen who owns the company. You'll have them by mail in 2 to 3 days. Jagwires are professional-grade strings used by players like Tommy White and Lloyd Green. They are inexpensive compared to some of the other brands and you can't beat their quality. In the nickel strings, order set #JE9-38N for the "Emmons" gauges with the .022 plain, or JE9-36N for the .020 plain. If you prefer the stainless steel sets, just change the suffix letter from N to S. All right, I'm prejudiced, but I've had very good luck with Jagwire strings and can recommend them wholeheartedly. Happy Holidays! Tim R. |
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B. Greg Jones Member Posts: 383 |
posted 17 December 2001 09:03 PM
I have been using GHS Boomers for the last 10 yrs. They always come with a .20p. I swap it out a .20wound. It sounds better to my ear and seems to stay in tune better. Plus I do like the sound of the 4th & 6th string together with a wound 6th. Never have tried a .22wound. Greg |
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Bobby Lee Sysop Posts: 14849 |
posted 18 December 2001 12:42 AM
Most modern E9th sets use a plain .020 for the 6th string. I use a wound .022 though, and the Carter Starter guitar requires a wound string as well. Check out the strings page in the Forum Catalog for a variety of sets. ------------------ |
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Jeff Hyman Member Posts: 375 |
posted 18 December 2001 05:42 AM
I am pretty much hooked on Ernie Ball strings. I've tried most of them over the years and just overall like EB. EB does not have the .022 Plain in the set. Many of my spare .010 singles are GHS... getting singles of GHS has always seemed to be easy. I made my last order many moons ago on the GeorgeL website. BTW: I also exclusively use .010 on #3. I'll try Bobbes site when I run out. Hopefully he and I both will live that long. Looking at his photo he seems to have as many miles as I do. :-) Jeff |
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Donny Hinson Member Posts: 9192 |
posted 18 December 2001 07:08 AM
I like the sound and feel of a .022w. |
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Don Walters Member Posts: 1189 |
posted 18 December 2001 08:10 AM
I agree with Donny. Plus, I'm sure it's just me but I have (had!) a heck of a time keeping a 20p or 22p in tune, always tweaking it. It just doesn't sound right to me. I have the same problem with the 4th string A on the C6 neck and may switch to a wound there as well. Any comment on that?? TIA ------------------ |
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Bobby Lee Sysop Posts: 14849 |
posted 18 December 2001 10:43 AM
I never liked the plain G# until I tried a set of Jagwire "Tommy White Signature" strings. They just sound right on the short scale of my Williams DX-10. I still use the wound string on the 25" Sierra, though. Maybe the scale length is what makes the critical difference. ------------------ |
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Johan Jansen Member Posts: 2207 |
posted 18 December 2001 11:30 AM
I always use a 0.22p, for a G#, and raise it with lk^ up to B. , never have problems with it. JJ |
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richard burton Member Posts: 1337 |
posted 18 December 2001 12:59 PM
If a steel suffers from cabinet drop, it is most noticeable on the sixth string, especially if that string is a plain 22. I use a wound 24 if I encounter any tuning stability problems with the sixth. |
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Jack Stoner Sysop Posts: 8119 |
posted 18 December 2001 04:08 PM
They are probably all OK. Just personal preference. |
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Jeff Hyman Member Posts: 375 |
posted 18 December 2001 05:10 PM
It's interesting to see how many discuss staying-in-tune as part of the decision process. Nothing wrong with that... but both my SHO~BUD LDG's have no problem staying in tune with .022P or the .010P. No breakage problem either (out of the ordinary). Jeff [This message was edited by Jeff Hyman on 18 December 2001 at 05:12 PM.] |
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Paul Graupp Member Posts: 3199 |
posted 18 December 2001 05:40 PM
Does anyone else share this obsession with me ?? I have always needed a balance between plain and wound strings. When I was on 6 strings or 8 or 10 or twelve strings, I wanted an equal number of each. This was the determining factor when I went with a plain 22 ga 6th string on my last two D-12s on their E9th necks. My middle E string on my MSA never fit well with me and changing guages did nothing to help it. My new Carter does not have the problem. Both were wound strings so no answers here either. My 6th neck is in the key of Cb and the 6th string here is also a plain 22 ga G# raised a half tone and a whole tone with pedals. So my balance was also achieved on this neck. I have from time to time been forced to use an unbalanced setup but it always went against my grain to do so. Something inside keeps telling me that's the way it should be but common sense tells me other wise. Like a roller coaster; I don't like that feeling but I keep riding them !! Regards, Paul [This message was edited by Paul Graupp on 18 December 2001 at 05:43 PM.] |
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Bobby Lee Sysop Posts: 14849 |
posted 18 December 2001 05:56 PM
Many steel players like balance. The Big E once spelled his name "Buddie Emmons" so that there would be 6 letters in each name. I like to have the same number of wound and plain strings, but sometimes it just doesn't work out that way. ------------------ |
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Al Marcus Member Posts: 7471 |
posted 18 December 2001 10:12 PM
I have to agree with Paul and Bobbe. I like a balance in strings, if possible. BE once commented on the Forum that , most of the songs on E9 are played on the first 6 strings. Those are all plain strings to me.....al  |
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jerry wallace Member Posts: 759 |
posted 19 December 2001 12:26 AM
Jeff,I have tryed both a plain .022/.020 and a wound .020 or .022..Mulitple times over the years..My opinion is that the wound strings have better intonation and are easier to keep in tune..They are effected much less by hand heat and ambiant temperture changes.. But the plain string has a different sound and tone and also requires considerably less pedal travel.. So its a "trade Off" and depends a lot on your personal preference.. I suggest you try both and decide what is best for you..A lot of factors come into play..Your style, your copedant,how much you use the B pedal and how fast you move it etc.. For years I used a wound 6Th due to mainly to the intonation and tuning problems with a plain string..But I always wind up coming back to a .020 or .022 plain string..Again its a trade off, while I like the ease of tuning on the wound,the pedal action is noticably harder and longer..Also I lower the 6th two steps this cannot be done on some steels with a wound 6th.. Its a lot like whether to use a plain or wound string for the G 3rd on a 6 string guitar..There are advantages and disadvantages with both.. One other thing,with a plain string you will probably be using the pull rod hole nearest the crossbar..On a wound string,you will probably have to move the pull rod to the last or furtherest hole in order to get enough pedal travel.. Try both and see what works best for you ------------------ [This message was edited by jerry wallace on 19 December 2001 at 12:44 AM.] |
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Kurt Kowalski Member Posts: 265 |
posted 19 December 2001 05:26 AM
An .022w on string 6...another can of worms (lol)  It is in my opinion that the intonation / tone / balance are much better on a .022w string. An .022w works great if you are raising the string only. If you are lowering the string 1 whole tone ie: G# --- F#, the string will never come back true. But, my experience is that you can substitute a plain for a wound string without a problem at your favorite steel guitar dealer/string manufacturer/ local music store, or however/ where-ever you buy your strings. This is a personal preference thing and to each his/her own. Hey, Happy Holidays to all you steelers! |
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Jack Stoner Sysop Posts: 8119 |
posted 19 December 2001 05:43 AM
The .020/.022P or W became more of an issue in recent years with the full tone lower of the 6th string becoming a common change. I remember buying sets of pedal steel strings back in 1969 when I started on Pedal Steel and they came with .020 6th string. |
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David Spires Member Posts: 387 |
posted 19 December 2001 06:35 AM
I guess I'm in the minority, but I have been using a .022" plain for several years now. For one thing, I have always liked bigger strings, but to me the tonality of the plain 6th string more closely matches that of the plain 4th and 5th strings. A wound 6th string has a little too much "boing" for me. For anyone else that likes the heavier sets of strings, I recommend the SIT Buddy Emmons Signature Set - Nickel Plated. My 2 cents, David Spires |
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Reggie Duncan Member Posts: 1862 |
posted 19 December 2001 06:44 AM
I tried the .022W on my Emmons P/P to resolve a slight intonation problem, but I was so used to the "bite" of the plain string that I was never satisfied with the tone. I use a lot of 5 & 6 and on my guitar they sound better plain. I also use SITs. [This message was edited by Reggie Duncan on 19 December 2001 at 06:45 AM.] |
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Donny Hinson Member Posts: 9192 |
posted 29 December 2001 05:19 PM
Here's a quote from Paul Franklin's article "Steel and Strings" quote: |
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Jerry Hayes Member Posts: 3306 |
posted 29 December 2001 05:47 PM
I,ve used a 22P for a long time now. I got my first 12 string (ShoBud) in 1977 and it came with a 22W. I tried it for a little while and it seemed like the volume dropped between string 5 & 6. The steel player I was working with at the time (Art Sanchez) gave me a 22P and I've been hooked on them ever since. Hey Paul, I agree with you about the equal number of plain vs. wound strings for sure. Also, why don't you try tuning your 6th neck to B instead of Cb? ------------------ |
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Gene Jones Member Posts: 5796 |
posted 29 December 2001 06:48 PM
* [This message was edited by Gene Jones on 02 May 2002 at 02:08 PM.] |
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Jim Bob Sedgwick Member Posts: 1234 |
posted 29 December 2001 08:24 PM
I tune to B sharp |
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Paul Graupp Member Posts: 3199 |
posted 29 December 2001 10:00 PM
Jerry; I think it's a hero worship thing with me. All my Heros; Reece, Bud Carter, Bob White, Johnny Vaughn etc all played a Bb tuning and I didn't want to feel like the Lone Ranger being in B so I thought it would be  to call it Cb. I'm still waiting for Carl Dixon to get me !!Gene, I found another guy tuned to B6th like us. He's over in Tab right now and his name is Don McClellan and he has some interesting changes on 12 strings. I've added two higher strings to the front of my 12, tuned to a 6th and a b7th ( G# and A) My plain strings beginning with a plain 22 for string six and with P-7 down run: G#-B-E-F#-G#-A. So if I break a 3rd string aka Bill Hankey, Regards, Paul [This message was edited by Paul Graupp on 29 December 2001 at 10:02 PM.] |
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Ricky Davis Moderator Posts: 6522 |
posted 30 December 2001 02:07 AM
Than according to what Donny just posted as a Paul Franklin statement; Lloyd Green would be the exception to the Rule. Mr. Green has used a wound 6th string...forever.... I used a plain string for a long long time and went to a .022 wound about 2 years ago....went back to a plain a week later after I put it on....cause it just felt weird on me picks...but told myself "it's not weird, it just feels different and I should get used to it; and so I put it back on and got used to it in a little time; and now have used the wound for 2 years and will never go back. Actually I use a .024 wound for my 6th string now....and Love it....for the same reasons Lloyd Green loves it; as we compared notes....and if you have heard my playing...you don't notice a different sound on that string do ya??...ha...when you get use to pickin' anything; you make it sound properly....no matter what is there....but you will fight intonation probs. more so on that string being a plain; than being a wound. Ricky [This message was edited by Ricky Davis on 30 December 2001 at 02:13 AM.] |
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