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Emmons vs. Derby? (Page 2)
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The Steel Guitar Forum
Pedal Steel Archive
Emmons vs. Derby? (Page 2)
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| This topic is 2 pages long: 1 2 This topic was originally posted in this forum: Pedal Steel |
| Author | Topic: Emmons vs. Derby? |
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Gil Berry Member Posts: 250 |
posted 06 January 2002 08:04 PM
I saw a Derby just once "live" and was really impressed. Has anyone played both a Derby and an Emmons? How would you compare them? |
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Tim Rowley Member Posts: 957 |
posted 06 January 2002 08:39 PM
Both great well-built guitars with great sound. Both brands are played by pro's and hold up well under continuous usage. I own a couple Emmonses and love them. If a Derby were to come my way, I would be very happy with it too. Big Jim Vest and Don Helms both do very well with their Derby steels, to mention two famous Derby players and there are a number of others. The Derby changer is somewhat different than the Emmons but works excellently. We don't see too many used Derby steels for sale, presumably their original owners are completely satisfied with them. You will do fine with either brand IMHO. Tim R. |
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RON PRESTON Member Posts: 742 |
posted 07 January 2002 07:18 AM
Hey, guys, I have owned a Derby, and LOVED it. I have known Charlie Stepp all my life.(The builder of DERBY STEELS) He lives in Louisville, Ky. and I was born and raised there. Tommy White lived there with his dad,'(Bubba')for many years and played at several different places, (both Tommy and 'Bubba') Tommy playes a Derby at the present time also. I can not tell you all the secrets about Derby, but I do know that the Emmons and the Derby, if put side by side, you can see SO MANY THINGS that are the same. The changer between the Emmons and Derby is simple.....The Emmons pivots (changer) on the RAISE,...whereas the Derby pivots on the LOWER.....The changers are the same.....but in order for Charlie NOT to be suied by Emmons......he made his changer move at a different pivot point. As far as the bodies, Charlie has the thickness, (like Emmons) in both wood and end plates that attributes to that SWEET  deep sound. Practacly every aspect of the Derby is VERY,VERY close to the Emmons. This is why a Derby sounds VERY much like an Emmons, if put side by side. I know of how Charlie got started many years ago in Louisville, and he is a very good friend of mine, and I would NEVER infringe upon our frindship, BUT, I must say, that when I worked for Emmons, I owned a Derby at that time, and I was told to NEVER bring out and set up my Derby at the MAJOR STEEL SHOWS, much less play it at the shows. And of course, I got A LOT OF RIBBING from friends that worked at Emmons also, because I OWNED A DERBY, FOR GODS' SAKE. I LOVE BOTH steels, and put them high on my list.  |
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Steve Stallings Member Posts: 2065 |
posted 07 January 2002 08:40 AM
In 92 or 93, I forget exactly when, I had the great fortune to vist Charlie at his house in Louisville. At this time he was making the steels in a shop behind his house. He had a whole room full of steels and I was very impressed with the quality. He later moved production of these guitars. I do believe they are strikingly similar to Emmons guitars. He makes a good guitar, as does virtually everyone making steels currently. ------------------ [This message was edited by Steve Stallings on 07 January 2002 at 08:41 AM.] |
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Johan Jansen Member Posts: 2207 |
posted 07 January 2002 09:37 AM
Derby, what can I say?? Fits like a glove!! It has it's own Character and timbre, I love it, and it never let's me down! JJ ------------------ |
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Ron Shepard Member Posts: 144 |
posted 07 January 2002 10:02 AM
I have a Derby D-10 and like it very much. |
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Joe Henry Member Posts: 909 |
posted 07 January 2002 10:18 AM
One thing is not clear to me yet after reading those posts. Are Derby steels push-pull? |
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RickRichtmyer Member Posts: 2522 |
posted 07 January 2002 10:25 AM
...or perhaps, given the different pivot point and desire to avoid lawsuits, Pull/Push?  ------------------ |
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Reggie Duncan Member Posts: 1862 |
posted 07 January 2002 11:26 AM
Joe, no. |
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Frank Parish Member Posts: 2327 |
posted 07 January 2002 02:38 PM
The Derby is not a push/pull guitar. I bought a Derby once and it appeared in almost every way to be built like the Emmons all pull guitars. The knee levers are not the same and I prefer the Emmons hands down. The Emmons have a 14 hole bellcrank and the Derby has a 4 hole bellcrank unless something has changed recently. There are some other things about the bellcranks I didn't like on the Derby too. I bought the Derby from a guy who couldn't get the tone he was looking for out of it. He changed the pick-ups and still didn't like the tone so he sold it. I didn't like the tone out of it either. The original pick-ups were George L E-66's and he put single coil Emmons pick-ups on it. I got it with the Emmons pick-ups. It played great and looked great and stayed in tune but I just couldn't get a tone that I could live with. They all don't sound like Tommy Whites and I've heard Tommy's isn't quite the stock guitar you buy out here. I only heard that from somebody else so you can take that for what it's worth. I bought an Emmons Legrande II and couldn't be happier. I've recently added the Lawrence 710 pick-ups and that made it sound even better. The original owner of the Derby has an Emmons now and loves it. All that talk about it's in your hands is only partially true. The guitar does have something to do with it and so does the amp and everything else that's hooked up to it. |
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Skip Cole Member Posts: 1292 |
posted 07 January 2002 04:30 PM
Gil, Having owned both, i can say that i love them both. The Derbys i owned had a smoother, shorter, pedal/lever action, than my Emmons, but the Emmons undercarriage was more accessable/accomodating to lever change or placement to my preferances. One of my Derbys was a wood/laquer body, which i didn't like the tone with the E-66's(stock) p/u's on it so, they were changed to the PF1's. IMHO, they resurrected the tone. The other Derby had Emmons single coil p/u's on it, where they remain to this day. Sounds better than my Legrande 2 does at present, but that will change soon. In closing, the Emmons is much easier to change pedal/lever rods setup on, just ask my good friend and steel guitar genius, Kenny Forbess who owns both Derby and Emmons also. He also did all the setups and changes on all my Emmons and Derby steels. I don't think you can go wrong with either steel. Best wishes.----Skip ------------------ |
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Reggie Duncan Member Posts: 1862 |
posted 07 January 2002 05:05 PM
I have played 3 Derby brand steels. The first one played well and sounded good. The second one looked and sounded great, but was hard to play, even after it was sent back to the factory for adjustments. The third one was the better of the three for sound and playability. I think this one would compare favorably with the Legrande guitars. I still play a push/pull guitar, personally. |
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Gil Berry Member Posts: 250 |
posted 07 January 2002 06:26 PM
Thanks, everyone for the feedback...guess I'll probably go for one or the other one of these days (if I live long enough)..My old MSA doesn't have a good E9 sound, but is NEVER out of tune (almost), and has given me no problems for many a year. My Baggett custom guitar (U12) is made of African purpleheart...aluminum necks...sound has that beautiful tone...BUT....it is a pain to keep in tune and properly adjusted...*sigh*.. |
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Bobby Boggs Member Posts: 3623 |
posted 07 January 2002 09:17 PM
I've owned both.There are things I like and dislike about both.All in all very good guitars for the money.The Emmons still has the resale value.So if you're on a budget a used late model Derby might be the way to go. bb |
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Rusty Hurse Member Posts: 194 |
posted 09 January 2002 06:05 AM
I can tell you for a fact that every Derby guitar is a QUALITY instrument. Charlie Stepp does not let a guitar out of the factory that is not perfect if there is a perfect guitar.The same quality that is in Tommy Whites guitar is the same quality that would be in your guitar!I played Emmons push pulls for over 30 years and they were great sounding guitars and still are.I started playing a Derby in 1997 and I have 2 now.The Derby has a much better sound now to me than the Emmons PP above the 12 frets and on up.The Derby guitars will resonate 25 to 28 sec where and Emmons is only about 17 to 20.The Derby stays in tune much better also.If you are looking for THAT SOUND! first look down at you right and left hands.That is where you get THAT SOUND! There is no magic just practice learn how to set your amp cause if you can play you can get THAT SOUND! out of any good guitar.There are no MAGIC GUITARS gentleman as some may think.THAT SOUND is between your 2 ears and your 2 hands.Just get out and practice play and HAVE FUN. LIFE is two short as it is!Most of the guitars today are all quality instrument. Just pick one you like and play it. |
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Bobby Lee Sysop Posts: 14849 |
posted 09 January 2002 08:48 AM
Ask Frank Estes. |
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Steve Miller Member Posts: 97 |
posted 09 January 2002 09:33 AM
I bought a Derby about six months ago and couldn't be happier. The TONE is (to my ear) incredible and SUSTAINS forever (well, almost). I think tone is a certain sound that we kind of just get used to. After hearing it for a long time nothing else sounds right to our ears. Example: I played through my 64 Deluxe Reverb for a couple of decades. Now, for me there is only one kind of reverb. I have yet to hear any reverb unit that comes close to old tube amp Fender reverb.IMHO 2001 Derby [This message was edited by Steve Miller on 09 January 2002 at 09:36 AM.] |
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Jeff Lampert Member Posts: 2636 |
posted 09 January 2002 09:48 AM
This whole emphasis on sustain always puzzled me. The old Sho-Buds have less sustain than just about anything, yet many top-flight players consider them among the best sounding steels. |
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Steve Stallings Member Posts: 2065 |
posted 09 January 2002 10:55 AM
oooohhh! Bobby, you are one cold dude (I know it's meant in fun..... ------------------ |
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slick Member Posts: 560 |
posted 09 January 2002 05:38 PM
Im sure the Emmons and Derby are both top quality instruments,and so is my S12 MSA, twenty six years old and no problems.Stays in tune and with the George L E-66 pickup has a great E9 sound.I believe that tone is in the hands of the player.Buddy Emmons would have great tone on any PSG,even on an old MSA.His tone is in the magic of his hands. Wayne |
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Bobby Boggs Member Posts: 3623 |
posted 09 January 2002 10:23 PM
Jeff wrote."This whole emphasis on sustain always puzzled me".I guess the importance of sustain depends upon the players style.I can't imagine Buddy E doing touch My Heart on an old Sho~Bud.Even though I'm sure it would sound good.Or John H playing fills behind Conway way up above the 14th fret.There again it would be good.But would it sound as good? I don't think so.These are just 2 examples.I like a guitar that sustains from the open position to the 24th fret.To me you can never have to much sustain.If you have a guitar that sustains really well you can always dampen it, if need be.But one that won't sustain good wears me out.It's like I'm running out of breath. Maybe one reason I'm so crazy about sustain is I started out on a 67 bolt-on PP.Never heard a guitar that would sustain better than a bolt-on PP.However we'll talk about staying in tune in another topic. Now to get back on topic.A Derby has great sustain.At least mine did.But have you played a JCH? OH My! bb |
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Marc Muller Member Posts: 109 |
posted 13 January 2002 08:58 AM
Frank Parish wrote, "They all don't sound like Tommy Whites and I've heard Tommy's isn't quite the stock guitar you buy out here." What's different? As to a guitar's tone, I was just told of somebody saying to Les Paul after hearing him at a gig how great his guitar sounded. He put it down and said "Oh yea, how does it sound now?" [This message was edited by Marc Muller on 13 January 2002 at 08:59 AM.] |
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Robert Rogers Member Posts: 349 |
posted 14 January 2002 05:32 PM
I have an Emmons Lashley Legrande III with 8 foot pedals and 4 knee levers.It was made in 2000.I love it.Its got the white teakwood finish.Just my 2 cents. Robert Rogers |
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