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What is an MSA "Red Baron"???
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The Steel Guitar Forum
Pedal Steel Archive
What is an MSA "Red Baron"???
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This topic was originally posted in this forum: Pedal Steel |
| Author | Topic: What is an MSA "Red Baron"??? |
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Gordon Black Member Posts: 166 |
posted 18 January 2002 10:31 AM
Anyone know what an MSA "Red Baron" is? I'm sorta looking at a left-handed S-10 version on e-bay, and the pictures aren't very clear. From what I can tell it may have 2 knee levers, mabey more. Was it a student model? Any idea what it may be worth? Thanks in advance! |
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PAUL WARNIK Member Posts: 1417 |
posted 18 January 2002 10:43 AM
It is a student model the same as the "sidekick" |
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Reece Anderson Member Posts: 1371 |
posted 18 January 2002 12:56 PM
Gordon B....The Red Baron exterior was a molded shell which was placed over a wood cabinet. We never made a left handed Red Baron guitar because to have done so we would have had to have created a reverse mold. The Red Baron was strictly a student model "fixed" setup, therefore changing the setup was a difficult task, because it was not so designed. Red Barons left the factory with 3 pedals and one knee lever. Since the one you are looking at has two knee levers, I would respectfully suggest you get a close look at the additional knee lever installation. I believe (if memory serves) the Red Baron sold for $395.00 without a case. It was shipped in a styrofoam container. The "Sidekick" was totally different from the "Red Baron". (sorry Paul) The Sidekick came with three pedals and two knee levers, it allowed the addition of yet another. It had a wood grain vinyl covering over a wood body, and the exact same changer system and pickup as found in the most expensive MSA guitar. In addition, it came with a case. The Sidekick was extremely light and a great working machine. |
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Lem Smith Member Posts: 1501 |
posted 18 January 2002 01:09 PM
This is very odd, at least to me. I know Reece knows more about the MSA's, and I'd NEVER dispute anything he says about them, but I had two Sidekick's, and a Red Baron, and they don't sound like what he described. The three that I had were just alike, except for the looks. The Red Baron was black, with a little red bi-plane on the front apron, opposite of where the guitar logo was. The two sidekick's were identical, except they were brown, and had a "sidekick" emblem where the bi-plane was on the Red Baron. All three had the "student model" type changer on them. Again, no disrespect intended Reece, just my observations about the ones I had. |
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BobbeSeymour Member Posts: 5664 |
posted 18 January 2002 01:50 PM
Maurice, You said,"To do so meant we would have had to create a reverse mold"? For what? It's the same guitar, you just sit on the other side and reverse (mirror image) the parts underneath! As a matter of fact , I have reversed several single guitars in the past , MSA among them,Red Barrons,Classics,and Semi Classics. Also several Mavricks,one Emmons P-P and partridge that was residing in the proverbial pear tree. Tell me more about why you would have needed a reverse mold. Double necks are the only guitars that need to have "reversed bodys" to go left handed.(Except for Dek-Ley's, that have leveltop bodys). A left handed body would be identical to a right handed body before the pedals were put on, No? I would have e-mailed you about this but have (like always) lost your e-mail address. Bobbe Seymour [This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 18 January 2002 at 01:52 PM.] |
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Lee Baucum Member Posts: 3201 |
posted 18 January 2002 03:17 PM
Bobbe - What do you do when the neck is not centered on the body, particularly if the guitar has a pad on it? My Emmons S-12 push/pull had the neck centered, but my Mullen S-12 has the neck mounted toward the front of the body. ------------------ |
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BobbeSeymour Member Posts: 5664 |
posted 18 January 2002 03:29 PM
Lee, you really can't do it on a stepped body,with pad(this easy way). If the body is not quite centered, it hardly matters though. Guitars like the Red Baron,Maverick,etc., are very easy to switch. The Pro I, Lloyd Green Sho-Bud, I would not switch this easy way, However we do switch these guitars around by leaving the body alone and just changing the neck and bottom parts, Not real easy, but do-able. You have to cut a new "window" in the left end casting and fill the holes in the other end. We have done many of these over the last 20 years also. Bobbe Seymour |
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Michael Garnett Member Posts: 893 |
posted 19 January 2002 12:31 AM
Yeah, but Bobbe, the STICKERS are on the wrong side! Nobody can see what this contraption is, excepting you, but you already know what it is! Maybe you can play it with your back to the audience, so at least they can read the decals. Garnett ------------------ |
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BobbeSeymour Member Posts: 5664 |
posted 19 January 2002 08:09 AM
Mr. Garrett, (new guy) Welcome! You are gonna' fit in great on this forum. I loved your response! Looking forward to more. Bobbe Sticker on the wrong side? She won't like it! |
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Michael Garnett Member Posts: 893 |
posted 20 January 2002 01:00 AM
Mr. Seymour- Firstly I apologise for using the familiar before we had properly introduced ourselves. P'raps I should have said "new KID." First time in my life a grown man's called this 22 year old "Mister." I'll be around, inserting smart-a$$ed comments whenever I see necessary. Hope none of y'all mind that there's a whippersnapper out there that you made a life-changing influence on, and he wants to follow in the collective footsteps of everyone here (and more that have gone on). I'm still learning through the process of elimination the names of the "real genius" behind the names that I learned as a young man (Merle, Hank, Waylon, Willie, Vern, both Georges and both Ricky's, to name a few). Y'all feel free to toss any tidbits of knowledge my way, and I'll pass 'em on when I've played my piece. You'd be surprised how much this Generation X-er cares. El Garnetto Oh, by the way, I just got your joke at the end.... reminds me of the old one... |
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Reece Anderson Member Posts: 1371 |
posted 20 January 2002 04:38 AM
First of all, I want to thank each of you for your questions concerning MSA. Unfortunately, or fortunately as the case may be, I have been very short on time for the past couple of months. I sincerely apologize to each of you for any response oversight or unintended inaccuracy as a result of not allowing myself the time to think through my replys, or make myself as clear as I should. In the history of MSA we produced four student guitar models. Starting with the earliest they were: Mini-Pro.... This guitar was made in the late 60's and very early 70's. Sidekick....was made with a hardrock maple cabinet and covered with a black molded shell. It came with three pedals and two knee levers (RKR & LKL) with case. Pro-Am....This guitar had a vinyl covering and utilized a silkscreen process for both the fretboard and the name on the front. This guitar came with three pedals, two knee levers, and the ability to accept a third knee lever. This model had the triple raise and triple lower pulling system as found on the later MSA models. Red Baron....This guitar had a red molded shell, and it came with three pedals and one knee lever. It also had a built in volume pedal. In an effort to get all this correct, Bud Carter and I discussed the student models extensively while I researched the remaining records relative to manufacturing sequence. Bobby S....You are correct in that the Red Baron "could" have been reversed. I incorrectly assumed noone would spend the time to reverse the entire underside of a student guitar with a fixed setup, including the built in volume pedal when the end result would still be that of a student guitar, after both monetary and time expended consideration. |
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Lem Smith Member Posts: 1501 |
posted 20 January 2002 05:47 AM
Here's a Red Baron that's a lot like one of the ones I used to have. [This message was edited by Lem Smith on 20 January 2002 at 05:47 AM.] |
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Keith DeLong Member Posts: 173 |
posted 29 January 2002 11:57 AM
I don't know about the MSA's but I reversed a Sho-Bud Maverick to lefthanded quite easily, and when I finally got a single neck double-wide Endicott, left-handed I restored the Maverick back to right-handed and sold it. Th Sidekick is a pretty basic guitar, but a friend of mine bought one and had somebody put a whole new bridge assembly so he could get knee levers to raise and lower the 4th and 8th, plus a knee lever on the 2nd. They had to cut out the body on the end below the bridge to access the tuning of the rods. |
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Russ Wever Member Posts: 770 |
posted 30 January 2002 12:13 AM
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