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Hawaiian on E9 (Page 2)
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The Steel Guitar Forum
Pedal Steel Archive
Hawaiian on E9 (Page 2)
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| This topic is 2 pages long: 1 2 This topic was originally posted in this forum: Pedal Steel |
| Author | Topic: Hawaiian on E9 |
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David Leibowitz Member Posts: 8 |
posted 06 February 2002 03:06 PM
I've lately become interested in playing some Hawaiian-type stuff on my LDG Sho-Bud with E9 tuning, along with the country and pop stuff that I've been working on. I get the feeling that most folks who play Hawaiian are playing no pedals or a C6 neck, though. Is that the case? Does anyone play Hawaiian on E9? If so, any recommendations on where to start? thanks! |
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Jim Smith Member Posts: 6399 |
posted 06 February 2002 03:16 PM
I don't play Hawaiian music, but I think most of it is played on a 6th tuning of some sort. Lowering your E's will put you into B6, just like on a Universal. If you lower 2&9 to C# at the same time you will have the equivalent of a high and middle D on C6 (or just stay away from those strings if you wish). Your first string F# also equates to a high G on C6. All you're missing are a couple low strings which aren't used in Hawaiian music anyway.  |
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Al Marcus Member Posts: 7471 |
posted 08 February 2002 10:13 AM
Hi David-I used to play a lot of Hawaiian solos on Lap steel, and double 8's. And pedal guitars. And YES you can play a lot of beautiful Hawaiian songs on an E9 3 pedal 4 or 5 knee lever guitar. As Jim mentioned you can use the Eb Knee lever to but you in B6. But also you can use your A and B pedals down to play in A6, that is even better , in my opinion. I am glad to see your interest in playing Hawaiian music on E9. You know they used to call it the "Hawaiian Steel Guitar"......al |
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Jerry Hayes Member Posts: 3306 |
posted 08 February 2002 10:21 AM
Hello David, I worked in a band where the drummer was also a vocalist and did some non country stuff. A couple of things we'd play was "Tiny Bubbles" and "Blue Hawaii"......I used what Al mentioned! I just held down the A & B pedals and played out of the A6th tuning. It worked extremely well. I think it sounds a little better to bump up the bass some on your amp when you do this. I also do this same thing to play distorted slide guitar licks on steel. ------------------ |
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Bob Farlow Member Posts: 895 |
posted 08 February 2002 10:30 AM
"Hawaiian Paradise", a album by forumite Leonard T. Zinn is a great Hawaiian album played on a MSA E9th tuning. |
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Jim Phelps Member Posts: 2936 |
posted 08 February 2002 10:50 AM
Yep, I agree with holding down the A and B pedals. I started on lap steels, first 6 then 8 strings, playing old country and Hawaiian songs, my uncle played all this stuff and I learned by copying him. When I got an E9th singleneck I just stepped on the A and B pedals and you have pretty much the same thing as your basic Hawaiian-type tuning. |
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Bobby Lee Sysop Posts: 14849 |
posted 08 February 2002 11:52 AM
I can play most of the Hawaiian tunes I know on E9th. They don't sound quite as authentic, but it beats hauling around an extra guitar just for a few tunes. ------------------ |
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Erv Niehaus Member Posts: 5803 |
posted 08 February 2002 11:54 AM
I play a lot of Hawaiian on the E9th neck. Some gospel songs have had Hawaiian origins. I feel it isn't so much the tuning that counts as much as the technique. You want to kind of slide into the notes to get the Hawaiian effect. I play a lot of chordal melody which lends itself to the "Island" sound. Uff-Da! |
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Herb Steiner Member Posts: 6119 |
posted 08 February 2002 07:05 PM
There is most definitely a different sound produced by a pedal steel than by most traditional Hawaiian guitars, but I think that has to do with the physical characteristics of the guitar and pickups more than anything else. What makes Hawaiian sound "Hawaiian" to me is right hand technique, note choice, and especially left hand technique... vibrato speed and intensity, style of glissando, left hand blocking, attack and duration of the note, approach to intonation, etc. All of which is determined by the most important part of the guitar, nut behind the fretboard. I find that I sound more "hawaiian" to me when I play with a smaller hawaiian-style bar like a Black Rajah or a Jim Dunlop. It's easier to get around quickly and not try to "milk" a sustain like we're used to with country music and pedal steel. ------------------ |
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Jay Jessup Member Posts: 345 |
posted 09 February 2002 11:32 AM
C#m9 is one of the popular Hawaiian tunings used by Sol Hoopi and in modern times Bud tutmarc, to get that on E9 just play with the A pedal down, real simple. If you want to get more complicated here's what I did a while back to get B11 which is one of the neater sounding tunings to me. Lower you low B to A instead of raising it to C#. Lower your D to C# (most guitars already have this. Dissable the fourth string E to Eb lower. Then with pedals A&B and the D lower engaged you get a great A6'th then add in the 8'th string lower and you get the B11. So it's all on there with the right hands and note choice and a flowerd shirt you are ready to go. |
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Bobby Lee Sysop Posts: 14849 |
posted 09 February 2002 01:42 PM
Bar slants on adjacent strings are the hard part. The pedal steel doesn't lend itself well to that. I have to change my technique quite a bit to play Hawaiian on the E9th, but as I said I beats lugging two instruments around. ------------------ |
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Al Marcus Member Posts: 7471 |
posted 09 February 2002 04:43 PM
Herb-You said it all. Most of the old timers tht played Hawaiian music in the first place know what you are saying. Bobby Lee- I agree with that wholeheartedly. Why haul around two guitars , when you can do it all on one...... |
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Mike Perlowin Member Posts: 6731 |
posted 10 February 2002 01:07 AM
Leonard T. Zinn plays Hawaiian music on his S-10 pedal steel guitar. I don't know how authentic or traditional he is, but I do know that he is accepted by the Hawaiian steel guitar community as one of their own, and that he always sounded awfully good to me every time I've heard him play. |
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David Leibowitz Member Posts: 8 |
posted 11 February 2002 11:32 AM
Thanks for the feedback on this, guys! It's definitely a big help. I even had a few guys email me some tab to get started. Thanks again... |
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Jay Jessup Member Posts: 345 |
posted 12 February 2002 10:46 AM
One final thought from me on this is that on most guitars if you keep your picking hand about 12 to 14 frets above your bar it tends to encourage more of a Hawaiian tone out of it than playing back by the bridge. Also the "bud" with 24" scale and slightly wider string spacing should help make the slants a little easier as does the little BJS Jerry Byrd style bar. [This message was edited by Jay Jessup on 12 February 2002 at 10:48 AM.] |
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Jeremy Moyers Member Posts: 296 |
posted 12 February 2002 11:15 AM
I think that a great example of Hawaiian sounding E9th playing is on Alan Jacksons Version of Margaritaville. Paul Franklin is the player and he acheived a great hawaiian feel on the E9th for that solo. I think it made the song. Just my 2 cents worth. I beleive that it is tabbed out on the rebel tab page. It is very well worth the time to work it up if for no other reason than to analyze the note selection and phrasing involved. Jeremy |
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Ray Montee Member Posts: 4090 |
posted 12 February 2002 11:46 AM
Alot of very fine comments and suggestions by Al, Jim, Erv, Herb and Jay to be sure as well the insights shared by each of the others. IMHO the E9th..."sound" is largely due to the three chromatic strings on top that give the tune that 'Country TWANG'.... When combined with amp settings and/or picking closer to the pickup and MASHING of PEDALS after the notes are plucked.....one gets the Nashville Sound. Also, there are "licks" that fall easy in the E9th tuning and are used over and over again by a large number of country music pickers. THAT is the E9th sound. NOW...like it has been said...we old timers learned to play music, often starting with Hawaiian tunes as lessons, utilizing tunings like A6/A7th; C#min; E7th, and C6th didn't seem to become dominant until years later. Likewise, PEDALS were NOT an ISSUE!! I would suggest that some of you new comers might want to view this fabulous instrument of yours as A STEEL GUITAR with unlimited musical potential. You have various tunings, strings guages, amps, picking routines, etc....that provide you with unlimited sounds for ANY KIND OF SONG! When playing on the E9th, with pedals AB depressed throughout... or no pedals down, or whatever combination you select..... just don't start picking NASHVILLE hot licks if your wanting to play real HAWAIIAN MUSIC. Whatever brand guitar, regardless of total number of pedals or amp selection, you are playing the music you love. It is a steel guitar; NOT a C/W guitar; NOT a GOSPEL guitar; NOT a jazz guitar;....you've got it. For Hawaiian music play Hawaiian style riffs, runs, turn-arounds, tone, open string work, etc. Pedals can be used, of course, but so as not to delude the flavor of the song, if you choose to use pedals, press them or release them BEFORE YOU PICK THE NEXT COMBINATION of strings. Don't let anyone KNOW that you're using pedals. Picking technique and bar work will determine if it SOUNDS HAWAIIAN...more than what kind of guitar, amp or tuning you're using. But then again, I could be wrong? |
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Dave Stewart Member Posts: 230 |
posted 08 March 2002 01:50 PM
Dave, I have never heard anyone play more beautiful Hawaiian music on the E9th than Leonard T. Zinn. He has an album and it is just great. Hawaiian music to me is more of a style, not so much a tuning. I like the big chord voicings like Alvino Rey uses so I shy away from the E9th for my Hawaiian. DJ Stewart DaveE9th@yahoo.com |
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Al Marcus Member Posts: 7471 |
posted 08 March 2002 10:40 PM
Ray Montee has let it all hang out in depth. Lots of good advice there. I remember when we first had pedals, the trick was as Ray says, not to let the audience know that you were pushing pedals. The changes were so smooth and timely, that you were not aware of the pedals. Of course that is not Country E9. Only for Hawaiian or pop or jazz. Incidently, I have seen and heard L.T. Zinn play his 10 string MSA. |
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Kenny Dail Member Posts: 2583 |
posted 09 March 2002 01:28 PM
When I play Hawaiian Music, I don't use the foot volume in the same manner as I do when playing coutry. As a matter of fact, I only use the Steel, RV-3 and amp. The attack and sustain is a major difference in defining Hawaiian syle from Country. Also, without the use of the foot volume, it is amazing how this will clean up your right hand technique. ------------------ |
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