The pick ups I wanted as near to the original frypan pick up we could get. I told him exactly how they were made. How many winds were on the coil, what gauge of the wire was on the coil and the metal horseshoes, the magnets to go around. So he agreed and he made two prototypes. The first one was not even close the second one was better but still not right. The third one was the one. I could tell by simply putting it on my lap and playing it without plugging it in. I could feel it and when I plugged it in that was it. But I tested the horseshoes to see if they were magnetized. They weren’t. He said well I just put those on there – he said actually we could duplicate the pick up anyway without the horseshoes, now we don’t need those to do what they did. So the sound was good and I tested it thoroughly so I agreed to let that slide. That was my second mistake. It should have been magnetized for no other reason then they should have been magnetized. But as far as the tone-having played both of them- the old ones and the ones Shot made, the final prototype was very little difference.

Now I found out as time went by I was getting cheated to death. I don’t like to talk about this because Shot’s gone and he’s not in essence here to defend himself. But I know what happened. I requested that I get the first one (#1) of the short and long scale production models. That was all I wanted out of it. Well I got the number 1’s but I had to pay for them. I had to buy mine just like everybody else did. So I said OK and I paid him for them.

Through various sources I found out that there was a lot of cheating going on and I also requested they keep the price down for guys to buy one and play them and still have something good. Something well worth the investment, and as a limited edition would then become a collectors item. That was what I had in mind. So the first ones came they had some different pock marks here and there on the bodies and I told Shot you know these dents and pocks marks can’t they be cleaned up. He said yeah I can do it but it will cost you more money. Already he was getting into that. I said well basically all I care about is the tone anyhow and I think the people going to buy them that’s what they are going to care about to is the tone. So we proceeded and so I told him as royalty since I would be the one responsible primarily for selling them because the one place Shot could sell them was in his store and that’s just one outlet. I said we could do most of it by mail. So I put my name on the line on this and I said I want $25 royalty on the frypans and on the double neck 8 would be $50. He raised hell about that. He named another player and said I don’t pay him that much. I said yes but he’s not selling your guitars for you -I’m selling them for you- all you do is make and ship them out. So that was our first misunderstanding. The price was arrived at $550 and that included a first class case. So I wanted to make it worth the money, I’d rather have them say you could have charged more money then say I got cheated.

So now Shot died and I found out more, but I didn’t say anything, but now the time has come that I have to defend myself. So his two sons didn’t want to continue to make them. Now I know for a fact that those frypans kept Sho-Bud in business the last two years they were in business because many other companies moved in on the pedal guitars and so that knocked him down. So I know financially they kept him afloat, especially the money he was making off of them, that he said he wasn’t making off of them and tried to make it appear that maybe that’s the reason they went broke but that is not so. So then that was the end of it.

I got my sales list out and looked-I have a record I think of every one that was sold, to whom it was sold, and the serial number. We got to about 100 of each, long and short scale give or take a few and that ended it. Well I heard later that Bobby Seymour bought up all of Shot’s equipment and he was making them. So that could not be-I had no agreement with Bobby Seymour. So when I heard about this I went to Nashville, Scotty and I went out to see Bobby and I explained to him the whole thing and he said OK. I said you can sell them-I can’t keep you from doing that I guess, but you can’t put my name on them. So that’s the way I thought it was left. They laid dormant for several years.

In the meantime I met Mitsuo Fujii of Japan who made the pedal steel guitars, probably the number one in Japan. I asked him – he’s a fine person- if he would like to continue making the frypans and I explained it all to him and he jumped at it. That is when I moved to Excel. So he started making them and he immediately started improving them. He molded new bodies – the Japanese are very particular about appearance. All of his came smooth as a mirror, no pock marks. He used better tuning keys. He designed several things. I told him exactly how to make the pick ups. I could see no difference between those and the Sho-Bud. If it was it was not enough for me to hear and in fact they were better in appearance and the case was beautiful-plush and all. The problem then was the dollar to yen exchange rate. The dollar went steadily down in value and it took more dollars to make up the difference. So anyway Mitsuo went ahead and he kept working on improving them. That’s how it moved to Excel. Mitsuo has done a wonderful job on them and I’ve tried to talk him – I know he is not making any money now because the dollar and the yen exchange rate is not good –it takes more dollars for him to make the same amount of money he used to make when first sold. So it doesn’t come out even so he’s losing money- I tried to talk him into quitting- If you’re not coming out on these things Mitsuo you don’t need to make them if you’re doing it for me –don’t do that cause we have the same agreement I had with Shot except there is no problem trying to get paid, none of that which I didn’t go into here about Shot. So that’s how Excel come to take it over and I’m sorry I didn’t start with Excel (laughs) in the beginning. Now basically that is the story. Believe me Shot was gold plating them and giving them away out the back door. I was looking over the sales list, and every now and then one would be stolen from the store and there would be no payment made, things of that kind.

Now I get the stuff from the forum about the frypans from my brother in which Skip Montee, Ray Montee talks about being in St. Louis at the convention and the Shot Jackson family was selling Jerry Byrd frypans. Well that was news to me because immediately I assumed Donna , Shot’s wife had found somebody that was making Jerry Byrd frypans again and I called Scotty right way and asked him did they have a booth or table there and he said yeah- he said but she only had two instruments. I said yeah but were the two something they had in the shop all these years or are they new ones. And if they are she can’t put my name on those and sell them. That contract has expired with the demise of Shot. So he kind of got upset about it too. So he called her and she was very apologetic and she told him that somebody else is making them, so I guess its going to be up to me to find out who it is. And if anybody on the forum hears of anybody making them – Jerry Byrd frypans with my name on them let me know and I’d appreciate it. So that’s the story. Now somebody said they were different in some way. I don’t care what they are they can’t put my name on them and sell them. I’m not worried about what royalties are involved, I’m worried about my reputation, because I won’t have that and I told Scotty well this may end up having to go to court to get my name back and I can do that easy- not easily - but I can do it and will. So that was news to me.

Now I already explained about the horseshoes that go around the pick up and all about that. I didn’t really hold to that because when I tested that and I had an old frypan to test it beside I couldn’t see that much difference, really, and I know that the technology had greatly improved since 1932/33 and those horseshoes were put on there to get a strong pick up than they had. But now you don’t need that. So I didn’t make an issue out of it, but I guess for appearances I should have.

Rick Aiello verifies this in his response. The magnets on the Excel and Sho Bud are just decorative, they are pretty powerful single coil pick ups and lie underneath. So that verifies it. They also vary from the Richenbacher frypans due to their solid flat wider necks. The reason for that was because on the old frypans the necks were rounded on the bottom like a regular guitar and they would slide back and forth on your leg so I told Shot to make them flat. I didn’t think that would matter much anyway. That’s the reason for that. And the head stocks the same thing-the original ones-the tuning keys were underneath like the old Spanish guitar, then they made a few toward the end with the vertical tuning keys. So we changed that to the one Rick describes. He explains these features add a lot of mass to the guitar therefore changing its timbre. That could be, I could not detect it when I tested them side by side. Rick’s got a better ear for timbre than I’ve got, evidently- that could be. Near the bottom of Rick’s 29 October post he says JB and Shot collaborated on the Sho-Buds making a limited number of the short and long scale version. There was some controversy over the continuation of there production after the limited number was reached. Now the limited number was never reached as I have already explained. Then he said Fuzzy (who worked at Sho-Bud re-re-introduced the current models available. Now that is not true. Fuzzy was the name Excel used on their pedal guitars. There was a Yasu Kamiya who now makes the Canopus guitar who worked at Sho-Bud a few years along about this time. But as far as I know he had nothing to do with the frypans, he may have, but they weren’t changed that I could see. So that was not true, we never reached the 300 limit- 150 of each scale.

The other person selling a Jerry Byrd frypan at Scotty’s show was probably an Excel person or an individual selling his own Excel guitar. When we started out with these they were $550 and the equivalent of that when we went to yen. But the dollar decreased against the yen way down so we had to get $1000 for the Excel to make the same amount of money that we make when they sold for $550. He (Mitsuo) didn’t make anymore, it was all lost in the rate of exchange. So he was just trying to sell one (the guy at Scotty’s) - his price was fair. Scotty is also selling Jerry Byrd frypans. That’s got to stop - there has got to be one source and that will be Scotty. He has to pay duty and shipping from Japan and that is the reason the price is high.

There is a book out titled Rickenbacher –History of the Rickenbacher Company and if these people on the forum want to know the history of Rickenbacher with pictures and all its all in that book.

Mikey from the Big Island of Hawaii. I don’t know where be bought his at – but evidently it wasn’t a new one, must have been one he got from somebody else- maybe it had a lot of changing done to it – but his harmonic was not on the 12th fret. Well that couldn’t have been one of the Excels – no way could that have been one of the Excels and if it was he should have sent it back right then. That’s why I don’t think he bought it new to begin with. And he recommends to buy Sierra. That could be – if he can get a better deal there go get it- that’s what I say. I think the one Mikey had was a Sho-Bud and probably even at that it probably had been altered. The only thing we’ve ever gotten from players is how much they like them. So this is an exception with Mikey. I don’t know who he is – evidently he don’t want nobody to know who he is either (laughs). So that’s about it.

I appreciate all you guys on the forum bringing this out. I’ve been wanting to tell this story for a long time and I hesitated because I don’t want to talk stink about Shot at all – no way, but that’s the problem you have when you do business – go into business with friends – right? It hardly ever works out but either way it’s nothing really big – I wanted whoever bought one to get their money’s worth. And I think we did that. There were a few unhappy but you are not going to please everybody. It was a problem in the foreign countries were they had to pay quite a bit more money, Canadians I know did but I had no control over that. It would be up to the buyer to decide if he can afford it or not, but if he did he still got a good instrument. And if it’s not good he should have sent it to me or anybody that could help him find what the problem was. But they surely got $500 worth of guitar, including a nice case.

So that’s I think the story on the frypan, if you’ve got any other questions let me know and I’ll answer them personally. But my intentions were nothing but trying to make people happy who always wanted a frypan, at least the player who liked tone, and I concentrated on tone, and I got it like I thought as close as we could get it. I doubt if you could go back and make the exact copy and they would sound the same even then. Steel guitar has many spooky facets about it. Lot of overtones, lot of dead tones, certain notes on certain strings on certain frets on the same model same everything on one it would be different than the other or it wouldn’t be at all. So they are spooky things to deal with. I guess all us guys that play them are spooky too, right? (laughs).

So let me know from you guys - you know me – I say it like it is and if I can clear anything else up that’s bothering you, let me know. And my brother Jack is going to see that you are pleased and satisfied, with the explanation. I was only interested at putting out a quality instrument for the money and that you have a good chance of making back playing jobs. For some of these instruments what they charge now - $4,000-$5,000 it takes a lot of playing jobs to pay for that. Yeah? So look at it practically.

The following information was added by me (Jerry’s brother) after I received the above transcribed tape.

I went back and did a search on frypans to see what other information existed on the forum about them especially after reading Rick’s suggestion to do so. I downloaded some of the comments and since they varied in opinions to what Jerry said I called him to read them to him and get his response.

There is a concern among you to know how many were really produced. This cannot be determined with any accuracy. Jerry consulted his sales list while we were on the phone. The list was the list of those he certified and knew had been sold. As he said in the story he was cheated to death. His list has less than a hundred for both scales. One model had less than ninety the other less than 100. I read him the comments where some of you were quoting the existence of A and B serial numbers higher than 100. You can figure out what was going on.

As you read in his story someone is producing at the present new frypans and they are using his name to sell them. The only authorized manufacturer of Jerry Byrd frypans is the Japanese company Excel. Jerry’s intention is not to regain the lost unpaid royalties but to stop the unauthorized manufacturing of frypans with his name involved. Anyone can make frypans if they so desire, but they cannot attach his name to them without some kind of an agreement. He wants to find out who this company or the guy is doing this. He has asked that if any of you have any information concerning a frypan you bought with higher serial numbers or one recently without a serial number and with his name on it and you know who the manufacturer is to please come forward. You can post that information on the forum, if you feel comfortable doing that or you can e mail me the information and I will send it to Jerry or you can drop him a line at the following address: P.O. 15026, Honolulu, HI 96830.

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Rick’s got a better ear for timbre than I’ve got, evidently- that could be

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Then he said Fuzzy (who worked at Sho-Bud re-re-introduced the current models available. Now that is not true. Fuzzy was the name Excel used on their pedal guitars.

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My Excel JB Frypan has a small metal plate on the back of the headstock that reads "Fuzzy Steel Guitar Co." ....

I didn't mean to mislead anyone .... just got a couple of Japanese Industrialists confused.

Sorry, I was just tryin' to help out someone who asked a question ... to the best of my ability and knowledge ....

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"If the SHOES fit ... you must EQUIP..."

[This message was edited by Rick Aiello on 15 November 2002 at 12:12 PM.]

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Brad's Page of Steel
A web site devoted to acoustic & electric lap steel guitars

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...at least it sounds familiar but we were interupted by Billy Hew Lin coming in the door and never resumed the conversation.

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Ooo! Tell this story, please!

[This message was edited by Jeff Au Hoy on 15 November 2002 at 05:05 PM.]

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So this is an exception with Mikey. I don’t know who he is – evidently he don’t want nobody to know who he is either (laughs).

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I would like to know also what (short scale) strings and gauges Jerry would recommend for these lessons since they require some tuning changes, if it isn't too much trouble.

What an ardent post.

When the music stops, I'll remember people for their heart.

[This message was edited by Jeff Au Hoy on 16 November 2002 at 04:58 AM.]

Wow! The price one has to pay for honesty.

Does anybody besides me think it would get pretty tiring answering fan mail for decades? Sounds like another honest statement.

What does he get for being honest with people? All of a sudden Jerry Byrd doesn't play a guitar he designed and all Excel's are crap? What's this about forum members saying things bad about Jerry Byrd? It seems to me all I've ever heard about Jerry Byrd is what a great player he is.

Do you really think Jerry Byrd must remember every fan (or ex-fan) by their first name?

I understand the hurt when an idol says something to hurt your feelings but don't hold honest statements against people. Only lies ok?

Here's some lyrics from "Oh Well" (By Peter Green of Fleetwood Mac)

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I suspect Mr. Byrd should have lied and said "This is real good playing Mike, I really love it".

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I don't think he should've said that.

But I maybe would've said, "Hey Mike, I think your playing sucks because: ------. But keep at it! You do these things well: ------. Try some of my albums. In particular, listen to this song: ------. Try to copy all of the articulations you hear, note for note. Do not neglect this! Note for note! Use a tape recorder to listen to your own playing... play in tune! Etc."

And yeah I'd make an effort to say those things even if I was the busiest guy in the world. It wouldn't even be much to send out some kind of impersonal mass-mailing that outlined the generics described above.

It doesn't take much to make people happy and keep the world going 'round. Celebrity doesn't excuse boorishness in my book.

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I am a superb player, I don"t have the guts to send Jerry a sample of my playing as I really don't want to know the awful truth. CC

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Would you send it to us?

I'd love to hear!

I'm not the only one that was accorded such a treat....Time and again, other loyal fans would write, detailing their latest visit with Jerry at his home, the recording studio and where ever else he might happen to be. He was always cordial and devoted a lot of his personal time to those of us who admired his playing skills. (A professional musican who truly cares about his fans!)

During the past 50 years, I've read hundreds of letters from JBFC Members from throughout the WORLD! I've exchanged emails with steelers from the Forum and all over this globe...and without exception, not a single one of them has EVER hinted that Jerry Byrd was anything but an honest, truthful, perfectionist, that cares NOT ONLY about the instrument that has made a wonderful life for him, the history of that instrument and the Hawaiian people, BUT......virtually every man, woman and child that has ever communicated with him about his playing or with questions of their own. (B.Emmons, Lloyd Green, Hal Rugg, have never sent me as much as a scribbled note and yet I admire their playing as well!)

In each JBFC Journal....Jerry would devote an entire page (or two)answering questions, most likely the same tired old questions that so many of us had put to him a thousand times over, year after year. (A caring person!)

I know for a fact, that Jerry Byrd to this day, responds to fans by handwriting some 500-600 letters per year. For years, these responses were 1,2 or more pages, of hand written text, on nice stationary. Never once did I ever receive a cheap looking, illegible, mass produced, photo-copied form letter addressing frequently asked questions...in response to any questions that I might have raised. (My letters to other famous artists have all been ignored!)

When I accumlated 4,000+ points in a JBFC contest back in the early 1950's, and the 2nd and 3rd place winners (NOT B.Emmons or Scotty!) had but 750 and 700 pts. respectively, he most graciously sent me his latest 8 x 10 glossy, autographed photograph; not a crummy looking printed snapshot with a rubber stamp signature, like many of the top names used to do.

Not once in all of these years, did Jerry EVER fail to answer each and every question that I ever put to him. He's helped me with music styling/technique, tunings, string guages, amplifiers,pickup-maint/adjustments,
Bakelite repairs, names of artists with whom he recorded decades ago, etc. He warmly agreed to critique some of my playing provided I send him a true sample of what I can do. Not once, did this man EVER ask for or hint that a fee would be appropriate for his responses. (Try asking a Restuarant Chef for his recipe....for NOTHING!) Then try to get out of paying for it!!!!Good Luck!

Jerry likely would not even recognize me on sight. I'm unable to boast of any kind of close buddy-buddy relationship. We're not old drinking pals, school friends, or working musicians from the WSM Opry or WLW or a host of other stations on which he played during his long career. Although I am the undisputed #1, Worldwide Jerry Byrd Fan....he never told any of his many other loyal fans about me, (not even Buddy Emmons or DeWitt Scott---both of whom to this day, still believe that they are the #1 fan!);and even asked me not to mention it to his other fans as he was sensitive about their feelings. He owes me NOTHING!

But.....after all of these many years, he still responds in a sincere, friendly, professional style and provides me with factual input if I should pose a question that only he might be qualified to answer.

Sooooooooo Mikey, WHAT'S THE REST of the STORY? How come "YOU" and only one or two others here on the Forum, feel obliged to rant and rave against this wonderful human being? I've NEVER head him say a single derogatory comment about ANYONE during this long relationship I've shared with him.

Oh, he did say one thing that sorta broke my heart.........("Now that you've collected all of those Rickenbachers, don't you think it's about time to sell all that junque?")but then, after all, the man has been there, had them, and got rid of his. Myself, being stuck in this time warp, I'm just getting started, so I'll give him that latitude.

Mikey talks about a bad personal experience. I don't think it's necessary to prove he's saying this stuff because he's deluded.

[This message was edited by Jeff Au Hoy on 17 November 2002 at 02:46 AM.]

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Brad's Page of Steel
A web site devoted to acoustic & electric lap steel guitars