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Author
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Topic: Steel Guitar Rag
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George Keoki Lake
Member From: Edmonton, AB., Canada
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posted 07 June 2003 11:07 PM
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The STEEL GUITAR RAG ... (Love it or hate it) ... It's an old steel classic, perhaps older than many of us may fully realize. I have a recording of a tune titled the "Guitar Rag" played on acoustic steel which dates back anywhere between 1928-1934 ...(can't be certain). It is unmistakably the 'skeleton' of what we recognize as the "Steel Guitar Rag" today.Many attribute Leon as being the composer. However I suggest he probably rehashed this old tune ("Guitar Rag") into its present format .... I'm sure this will be open for a lot of debate and discussion. However, I have a question which someone on the Forum might be able to answer: Back around 1944, Bill Boyd and his Cowboy Ramblers recorded probably one of the first (modern) 78rpm versions of "New Steel Guitar Rag" which proved to be a huge success. It was heard in every juke box across the US and Canada. Whoever played steel on that recording played it in a very simplistic style...nothing challenging at all. Who was that masked man ? Just curious. A few years later, (about 1947), Red Murrell produced a swinging arrangement of the "Steel Guitar Rag" in 3 part harmony between the steel, a take-off guitarist and an accordionist. Anyone recall that particular recording and who played the steel ? There have been so many recordings of the Steel Guitar Rag over the years....the wierdest and wildest had to be the version recorded by Roy Smeck. My all time favorite is played by Bill Stafford ... absolutely awesome! |
Jesse Pearson
Member From: San Diego , CA
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posted 07 June 2003 11:25 PM
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My music book on Western Swing states the song was based on a 1923 recording by a black guitarist by the name of Sylvester Weaver. He was a bottle neck player and called the song Steel Guitar Rag. It's a fun song to play in Open E or D bottle neck as well as steel and leaves a lot of room for embellishments. I would like to post it in Tab for C6 tuning if I can just get the hang of using Tab edit. I didn't know they were making many records back in 1923, musta been considered that "old timey music" ? |
Blake Hawkins
Member From: Land O'Lakes, Florida
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posted 08 June 2003 02:59 AM
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George, I have a copy of Roy Smeck's "Steel Guitar Rag." It is so strange, I suspect he is doing more of a parody than the actual song. Maybe he is just telling us he does not like it.
Smeck's style is unique, I think.
I have several of his records and would not dare to try to play any of his arrangements in public.  Blake |
Paul Graupp
Member From: Macon Ga USA
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posted 08 June 2003 04:20 AM
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George: When I first heard the upright bass intro to Jerry Byrds rendition, I was hooked for good. I don't think anyone else has used that before or since then but it was perfect setup for SGR and always will be !Regards, Paul |
George Keoki Lake
Member From: Edmonton, AB., Canada
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posted 08 June 2003 07:14 AM
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Well, they were indeed making numerous (flat disc) recordings back in 1923. (Pathe' is just one label that comes to mind....very thick platters with narrow grooves). Years earlier, recordings were done on the Edison Cylinders. (I still have an olde Edison Cylinder machine in excellent working condition plus about 50 cylinders...no steel guitar music can be detected on any of them). Your book regarding the 1923 recording of SGR makes it much earlier than my copy of a tune called "Guitar Rag" which must be proof of sorts that Leon could not possibly be the composer as is so often claimed.
Yes, Jerry's recording is great, (like everything he has ever done). However don't ask him to play SGR as he seldom, if ever plays it in public anymore.
Roy Smeck called himself the "Wizard of the Strings" ... justifiably ! Many hated his style, (particularly his wide vibrato), but I really enjoyed and appreciated everything that man ever did including SGR! His technic was fantastic.
I would still appreciate the answers to my questions (above) re: who played SGR on the Bill Boyd and Red Murrell recordings...any answers ? [This message was edited by George Keoki Lake on 08 June 2003 at 07:20 AM.] |
Mike Neer
Member From: NJ
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posted 08 June 2003 07:24 AM
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The guitarist on the Bill Boyd version is Lefty Perkins and on the Red Murrell version it might be Les Anderson. |
Rick Aiello
Member From: Berryville, VA USA
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posted 08 June 2003 07:42 AM
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I have Sylvester Weaver's Guitar Rag on a compilation CD ...THE SLIDE GUITAR: BOTTLES, KNIVES, & STEEL, VOL. 1
[This message was edited by Rick Aiello on 08 June 2003 at 08:15 AM.] |
C Dixon
Member From: Duluth, GA USA
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posted 08 June 2003 07:45 AM
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My all-time favorite is Jerry Byrd's rendition; the one Paul Graupp mentioned in his post. The interesting thing about this recording is it was done solely on C6 with the 6th srring tuned to C#. Many players play this on a 6th tuning as oppossed to an open E tuning, but Jerry discovered a way to get the exact same opening lick sounds and timbre as heard on a straight E tuning; while using C6. IE, most players who play it on C6, just walk up the strings at the 4th fret. Jerry didn't. The way he did it is not easy to master. My dear friend (and Jerry Byrd guru) Wayne Tanner showed Tom Brumley and I how Jerry did it. If you want to hear the closest rendition (I know of) of JB's style of playing SGR, get Tom Brumley's "In Time" CD. He even used a 7 string Rick baekelite on this selection. May Jesus richly bless JB, TB and ALL of you, carl |
George Keoki Lake
Member From: Edmonton, AB., Canada
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posted 08 June 2003 07:57 AM
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Thanks Mike. |
Jesse Pearson
Member From: San Diego , CA
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posted 08 June 2003 08:28 AM
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H.C. Spear was responsible for the recording careers of the major Delta bluesman. He used to make test records for the larger record companies, working as a talent scout. He made his test records on metal disks or aluminum base. And you would record with a diamond needle into the grooves, by 1926 they had electrical machines. The big companies cut on about 1 to 1 1/2 inches of chilled harden beeswax in the 1920's and 30's. That was the master, then they made a pressing mother from the master. They had a lot of trouble recording in the south because of the great heat in the summers, the beeswax master went right back to the refrigerator. And this is why they made at least two takes of every song. They had a wire recorder in the 30's, but the big companies didn't use it.[This message was edited by Jesse Pearson on 08 June 2003 at 08:44 AM.] |
George Keoki Lake
Member From: Edmonton, AB., Canada
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posted 08 June 2003 09:44 AM
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Actually, wire recorders were still hanging around in the mid forties. I had one! Gawd help you if the wire ever got away on the spindle....wire everywhere! Wire was on the scene prior to the earliest reel to reel tape format. Wire quality was really lousy for music, but was ok for speech and/or dictation. I also had a disc recorder in the late forties. In those days you could go to your favorite "radio supply" store and purchase blank aluminum 10" discs coated with shellac. Those blanks had two holes in the center, one was for the normal center shaft. The other hole was for a pop-up shaft on the cutter turntable to keep the disc from slipping while the cutting was in process. As long as the tracking gear was ok, a fairly good (for those days) quality disc could be cut. I ruined many discs due to poor alignment. I'm sure many of you olde tymers will recall those old cutting machines. My earliest cuttings of the old (shortwave) "Hawai'i Calls" radio shows were done on that disc recorder which I had connected directly to a radio. (Did I hear someone ask if dinosaurs were running around in my back yard ?)[This message was edited by George Keoki Lake on 08 June 2003 at 09:45 AM.] |
Dave Mayes
Member From: Piedmont, Ca.
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posted 08 June 2003 09:45 AM
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I can answer half of your question George:
Eddie Martin was the steeler on the Red Murrell version - I was listening to it last week as I rode my bicycle to work. |
George Keoki Lake
Member From: Edmonton, AB., Canada
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posted 08 June 2003 09:52 AM
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Dave, I met Eddie Martin in the mid-fifties when he was on tour with the Hank Thompson Band (as I recall). I'm inclined to think you are correct. Eddie had a swinging style very similar to what can be heard on the Red Murrell disc of SGR. He was playing a 4 neck Swingmaster when he hit town. (First one I had ever seen). I wonder what ever became of him....? Anyone know ? |
Mark van Allen
Member From: loganville, Ga. USA
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posted 08 June 2003 09:59 AM
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George, I posted on this topic a couple of years back and I think got some folks angry with me- my point then was that SGR became THE signature tune for steel guitar through the popularity and wide exposure of Bob Wills' band- to the point where steelers everywhere either played or fielded requests for it. I still get requests today. As far as I've heard, Leon was always acclaimed and acknowledged as the composer- even a quick listen to Sylvester Weaver's version reveals almost NO discrepancy in melody and form, with the exception of an added C section. From what I've read, Bob pressured Leon to come up with a signature tune for the radio dates they were playing... I've always wondered if he subconciously pulled up the tune he'd heard somewhere, or if he considered a slight reworking to actually be a unique composition. Whatever it was, Sylvester Weaver should certainly get credit among steelers for penning the original melody so many folks associate with Steel guitar. (No disrespect meant to Leon and his many talents).------------------
C'mon by and visit!- www.markvanallen.com
My Bands: Sugarland Kate and the Retreads Kecia Garland Band Shane Bridges Band Dell Conner Blues Band
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Jesse Pearson
Member From: San Diego , CA
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posted 08 June 2003 10:05 AM
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George, that sounds fascinating. Did you record any early hick radio shows that featured non pedal steel? Man, I was just thinking how cool it would be to be able to listen to old timey radio music shows that featured non pedal steel, right from your computer. |
Earnest Bovine
Member From: Los Angeles CA USA
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posted 08 June 2003 10:49 AM
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Sylvester Weaver also wrote and recorded "Me And My Tape Worm". Did Bob Wills rip off that one too? |
George Keoki Lake
Member From: Edmonton, AB., Canada
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posted 08 June 2003 11:34 AM
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Closest I ever came to recording a hick show was the Hoosier Hot Shots...."are you ready Hessie ?" Otherwise, I used my old cutting machine to record local jazz sessions of that era. |
Jody Carver
Member From: The Knight Of Fender Tweed. Dodger Blue Forever
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posted 08 June 2003 01:14 PM
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Closest I ever came to recording a hick show was the Hoosier Hot Shots..  George,now I know how old you are |
George Keoki Lake
Member From: Edmonton, AB., Canada
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posted 08 June 2003 01:16 PM
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Like I said, dinosaurs were running around in my back yard ! |
Mike Neer
Member From: NJ
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posted 08 June 2003 01:24 PM
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Jesse, if you're interested in radio shows featuring steel, there's a guy named Jimmie Willhelm in Texas with over a thousand tapes, including Spade Cooley, Tex Williams, etc. His website is www.vintagecowboymusic.com |
Jesse Pearson
Member From: San Diego , CA
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posted 08 June 2003 02:27 PM
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Thanks Mike, can anyone recommend a good ol' cowboy movie with swinging non pedal steel playing before I e-mail Jimmie? |
Paul Graupp
Member From: Macon Ga USA
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posted 09 June 2003 08:55 AM
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I still haven't heard the answer to:Does the spearmint loose it's flavor on the bedpost overnight ? Carl: You're going to post that arrangement of Jerry's in Tab; Aren't you ??  Regards, Paul  |
C Dixon
Member From: Duluth, GA USA
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posted 09 June 2003 11:58 AM
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Yeah Right!When my rich uncle gets outta the poor house carl |
c c johnson
Member From: killeen,tx usa
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posted 09 June 2003 01:23 PM
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Steel Guitar Rag is still a popular number where ever we play. We don/t use it as a break # while every one heads to the bathroom and don't play it lightning fast. We play it in time so that they "rag" it like it was intended to be. I have had folks to tell me to pep it up;"let me see what you can do". I tell them we play DANCE music and he can leave if he doesn't like it. OK Keoki, I'll let the cat out of the bag. Keoki wrote SGR in1918 and Jody wrote the lyrics 3 yrs before Cliffie Stone was born. CC |
Steve Honum
Member From: LosAngelesCa
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posted 09 June 2003 02:01 PM
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Speaking of Cliffie Stone, the lyrics are GREAT. I had a Speedy West LP with the lyrics and they really added to the song IMHO. Cindy Cashdollar has a good arrangement on her Homespun tape that lays out real nice. I still think Leon's original version with Bob Wills absolutely burns. I remember the first time I heard it on a car radio in the middle of the night driving through Santa Barbara. I think it's what sparked my interest in steel guitars.
Haere mai,
Steve H.
S8A6
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Rick Collins
Member From: Claremont , CA USA
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posted 09 June 2003 03:56 PM
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I've always thought "Georgia Steel Guitar" to be a good substitute for "Steel Guitar Rag". It's a much prettier instrumental, yet some of the tune will remind you of "Steel Guitar Rag".Usually, your audience won't know the difference. Rick |
c c johnson
Member From: killeen,tx usa
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posted 09 June 2003 05:37 PM
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We also do Ga steel and roadside rag plus others. Good songs. |
George Keoki Lake
Member From: Edmonton, AB., Canada
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posted 09 June 2003 11:04 PM
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Anyone care to post the lyrics for SGR ? |
George Keoki Lake
Member From: Edmonton, AB., Canada
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posted 09 June 2003 11:57 PM
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(repeated in error)[This message was edited by George Keoki Lake on 09 June 2003 at 11:57 PM.] |
c c johnson
Member From: killeen,tx usa
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posted 10 June 2003 04:07 AM
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I've rambled around, seen many a town, so maybe you think I'm the kind of guy to brag; but listen to me and see if you don't agree, no melody rolls like that old steel guitar rag;;;;;;; and when he slides that thing along the strings, it sounds so dog gone heavenly you here an angel sing, and when you pat your feet your heart will beat to the rhythem og that old steel guitar rag;;;;;; you may be kind of choosey bout the songs you like to hear, you may like songs thats bluesy make you cry right in your beer, but if you like a tune thats bound to drive away your cares, make happy your sole with that old steel guitar rag... This was taken off the Pee Wee King record. Keoki see your email. |
George Keoki Lake
Member From: Edmonton, AB., Canada
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posted 10 June 2003 02:41 PM
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Thanks CC! |
Kenny Dail
Member From: Kinston, N.C. 28504
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posted 10 June 2003 03:24 PM
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FYI, speaking of Bill Boyd and the Cowboy Ramblers, I am lead to believe they also recorded the original version of Roadside Rag. Clyde "Boots" Harris wrote and recorded Georgia Steel Guitar. Does anyone know who recorded New Roadside Rag? I still play SGR as well as all the above mentioned instrumentals and enjoy them as much today as I did the 1st time I played them. 
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kd...and the beat goes on...[This message was edited by Kenny Dail on 10 June 2003 at 03:28 PM.]
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Al Braun
Member From: Dunnellon, FL
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posted 11 June 2003 05:25 AM
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To add to Paul's note about JB's SGR intro. I was in the Korean thing and stationed for awhile at Camp(then)Stewart. The first hillbilly I ran into was Horace "Aitchy" Burns who was activated with the 129th Army Band fro Chattanooga. I had met H before in Tampa, he was one fantastic bass man. There were two bass players on JB's SGR, H doing the lickety pop intro and the strokes he made on that were amazing, he had calouses on the backs of his fingers as well as the front, he slapped the strings, then the neck, then the bass, then the bottom of the neck with the back of his fingers on the way up and picked the note. H was Jethro's brother, he dropped dead giving a music lesson in Knoxville after retiring from the army. He worked with JB on several of his recordings.
More history. Al |
Paul Graupp
Member From: Macon Ga USA
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posted 11 June 2003 06:32 AM
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Al: I thank you for that most interesting story. Everytime I think I've heard it all I find something new on the Forum to perk up my interest.BTW, I was in that Korean thing too. I put almost a year on a mountain top radio relay site. I was up there when Hank Sr. died and it really tore me up. Almost every favorite I have by him had Jerry on the steel and then times changed and Don Helms showed me a whole new world of steel guitar. I'm going on 72 now and I still remember all those sounds as if it were yesterday. Thanks for the memory !! Regards, Paul |
Al Johnson
Member From: Sturgeon Bay, WI USA
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posted 11 June 2003 06:53 PM
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Somebody mentioned Cliffie Stone. Yes, his name is listed, but so is Merle Travis, that man could write. Merle recorded Steel Guitar Rag more then once, he could sing it and swing it. I always felt Merle and Leon McAuliff would have made a good team but Merle always had a great steel player on his recording. His last Capitol LP rerecordings of some his hits with the great Curley Chauker and the Hank Thompson Band. I agree, I get a kick out of the Speedy West with vocal chorus great time Al |
John Kavanagh
Member From: Kentville, Nova Scotia, Canada
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posted 12 June 2003 09:23 AM
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George, you recorded the Hoosier Hot Shots? I love the Hoosier Hot Shots! Why don't you be a generous guy and start a thread in the Music section sharing that experience? I'd really like to hear about it. [This message was edited by John Kavanagh on 12 June 2003 at 09:24 AM.] |
Harold Jack Baker
Member From: Ladora, Iowa, USA
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posted 22 June 2003 08:48 AM
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When you mention The Hoosier Hot Shots you might want to mention another great group of that time led by a fantastic entertainer Named Captain Stubby. He featured a singer named Tiny Stokes. I'm 75 and my earlier days on Steel and guitar were pushed by them and Jerry Byrd. Harold "Texas Jack" Baker Kokomo Ind. Sho-bud Pro,Fender Tele,Alvarez acoustic. enjoying being the head of a group playing steel. ------------------
Texas Jack |
Jody Carver
Member From: The Knight Of Fender Tweed. Dodger Blue Forever
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posted 22 June 2003 12:24 PM
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Harold
Are you making reference to Capt Stubby and
The Buccaneers? Yep I worked opposite them as well...How about Al Trace and his hit song
"You Call Everybody Darling" written by Sam Martin..another good friend. |
George Keoki Lake
Member From: Edmonton, AB., Canada
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posted 22 June 2003 02:03 PM
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In regards to the Hoosier Hot Shots, yes I did record them directly off the air on an old disc machine I had at the time. Unfortunately, those discs are long gone now. They were cheap, became brittle and just wore out. I can always remember the tin whistle sound before "Are You Ready, Hessie?" It was a great group. I wonder if anyone has the old masters and/or why someone doesn't bring them back on cd format for today's generation to enjoy ? |
Mitch Drumm
Member From: santa rosa, ca
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posted 22 June 2003 05:18 PM
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george:there are 2 hoosier hot shots cds that i am aware of: rural rhythm 1935-42 on columbia 52735; 20 of their best known songs such as i like bananas, goofus, moving day in jungletown, the girl friend of the whirling dervish, and from the indies to the andes in his undies; released 1992 are you ready hezzie on circle 905; 25 sides from world broadcasting transcriptions recorded in chicago in the 40s and early 50s; songs like wah-hoo, breezin along with the breeze, meet me tonight in the cowshed, sweet jennie lee, my little bimbo down on bamboo isle, etc. released 1993. |
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