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Author Topic:   What are cents
Charlie Campney
Member

From: The Villages, FL

posted 17 July 2004 12:43 PM     profile   send email     edit
Hi all! A short time ago I dowloaded AP Tuner for use on my PC and it has a cents scale which goes from -50 to +50 from the target. I practice in the same room where my PC is so it is pretty convenient. I guess this is a unit of measurement, maybe a percentage of a hertz or something like that? I have searched the web and this forum and can't find any reference at all. I have seen where others have tuned so many cents plus or minus away from the correct pitch. Can anyone tell me what this value is and how relevant is it if I'm off by 5 or 10 cents or so?
Thanks
Earnest Bovine
Member

From: Los Angeles CA USA

posted 17 July 2004 01:25 PM     profile   send email     edit
100 cents make one fret (one half-step). If a string is out of tune by 10 cents, it will sound out of tune. Within 2 cents is about as close as you can get.
Ron Bednar
Member

From: Rancho Cordova, California, USA

posted 17 July 2004 01:33 PM     profile   send email     edit
Charlie, the cent is logarithmic measure of relative petch or intervals. An octave has 1200 cents, a half step in tone is 100 cents.
If you are off by 5 or 10 cents, you are just that...off true pitch by 5 or 10 cents,
listen and you can hear it.
For instance, I tune in open D mostly. The third of the open chord is F#, if I tune the F# string right on it's actually off to the other notes in the open chord. So, my teacher Pete Grant, taught me early on to tune the F# 12 cents flat to sound correct to the other notes in the open chord. Same with all 3rds, if tuned right on they are off to the chord they are in. Another example is the top string in open D. When barring on the 4th fret, which is F#, the sweet spot is just a tad behind the fret not right on it. Those little cents make a big difference.

[This message was edited by Ron Bednar on 17 July 2004 at 01:35 PM.]

chas smith
Member

From: Encino, CA, USA

posted 17 July 2004 02:44 PM     profile     edit
To add a bit more with the numbers: The "western" 12-tone tempered scale divides the octave into 12 equal parts (C, C#, D, D#, E.....C). The distance (interval) between each of those pitches is the 12th root of 2, (1.0594). So if you multiply A-440 (A above middle C) x 1.0594 = 466.163, and that's Bb.

Cents are the way each semi-tone is divided into 100 equal parts, thus each octave is divided into 1200 equal parts. Each cent is the 1200th root of 2, (1.000577).

Back to the octave with 12 notes. The A, one octave above A-440 is A-880. The A below A-440 is A-220. Octaves are 2/1. To get A-880 (2/1) from A-440, using the 12th root of 2, it's the 12th root of 2 to the 12th power, which is 2/1. To get the E above A-440, ( E is the 7th semi-tone above A), multiply A-440 x 12th root of 2 to the 7th power (440 x 1.498 = 659.25), E-659.25.

To get 15 cents above A-440, multiply A-440 x 1200th root of 2 to the 15th power, (440 x 1.00870 = 443.828) and that's A + 15cents.

HowardR
Member

From: N.Y.C.,N.Y.

posted 17 July 2004 02:57 PM     profile   send email     edit
Now this all makes sense to me.
Herb Steiner
Member

From: Cedar Valley, Travis County TX

posted 17 July 2004 03:44 PM     profile   send email     edit
Definition 2: Cents - the basic unit of measurement when calculating the pay scale of the professional country musician.

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Earnest Bovine
Member

From: Los Angeles CA USA

posted 17 July 2004 04:04 PM     profile   send email     edit
quote:
the basic unit of measurement when calculating the pay scale of the professional country musician
Herb, do you mean you only have to pay a few cents to play? I'm moving to Texas!
C Dixon
Member

From: Duluth, GA USA

posted 17 July 2004 05:55 PM     profile   send email     edit
Ya mean they actually pay steel players?

I "dent" know that!

To add to the very correct and detailed math above. When you are tuning your 3rds flat so they sound right you are tuning to an even harmonic rather than to the equal tempered note, IE, in the key of A 440, you are tuning your C#'s to 550 exactly. When you use the formula, they are tuned to exactly 554.36. Or almost 5 full Cycles flat; (approx 16 cents or so flat.)

In a similar way, you tune your E's to 660 rather than 569.26.

Or an easier way of saying it if you are from Rio Linda; tune dem 5ths just slightly sharp and tune dem toids n' sixes way down flat! The lower tha better bubba!

carl

Joey Ace
Sysop

From: Southern Ontario, Canada

posted 17 July 2004 05:56 PM     profile   send email     edit
"Cents" is slang, short for "percent".

100% is the distance to the next note.
50 cents is halfway there.

They usually don't refer to more than 50% because
51 cents high is the same as the next note's 49 cents low.

Make sense?

[This message was edited by Joey Ace on 17 July 2004 at 05:57 PM.]

Bruce Clarke
Member

From: Spain

posted 18 July 2004 01:51 PM     profile   send email     edit
Not really, isn't the statement "100% is the distance to the next note" somewhat imprecise?
Ray Minich
Member

From: Limestone, New York, USA

posted 18 July 2004 04:05 PM     profile   send email     edit
Cent == 1/100th
Charlie Campney
Member

From: The Villages, FL

posted 18 July 2004 05:06 PM     profile   send email     edit
Thanks all for your responses. I think I understand pretty much what cents are now. This hillbilly was really really in the dark. The problem I have with the AP Tuner is that the tone is so brief, the tuner doesn't have a chance to get steady and the needle jumps all over the place making a fine adjustment difficult. I guess I will have to get a dedicated tuner such as the Korg CA30. Anyone have any experience with this unit?
C Dixon
Member

From: Duluth, GA USA

posted 18 July 2004 05:43 PM     profile   send email     edit
Tip....

If you folks would like to make a tuner sit there like a rock as the note sustains forever so you can tune all the strings and the changes, procure an Ebow.

Greatest thing since sliced bread for tuning using a meter. Only one caveat, and that is your 1st and last string on any neck. But a little block of would cures that.

Note: the ebow was designed to straddle the string it excites. As such nothing to support it on your first and bottom strings. The wood solves that problem quickly.

I got the idea late last year. It truly does work like a charm. No more having to constantly pick the string. Simply pick it once and the Ebow takes care of the rest. PLUS, by sliding the ebow to the left or right you can pick the ideal level for your tuner for each string.

No more wiggling needles.

carl

Jennings Ward
Member

From: Edgewater, Florida, USA

posted 18 July 2004 08:31 PM     profile   send email     edit
Get a tuning FORK..good one, any key will do.You'll never have dollars if you don't have cents, sense,sents????? which? i-don-no... Jennings

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