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Author
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Topic: Hypnosis and Subliminal Programming
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Jeff Strouse
Member From: Jacksonville, Florida, USA
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posted 12 November 2004 06:20 PM
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Wonder if it works! 
http://www.hypnotictapes.com/transcript/instruments/TS-steelguitar.shtml |
Paul Arntson
Member From: Bothell ,WA (just outside Seattle)
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posted 12 November 2004 06:49 PM
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My late father in law was at one time heavy into selling subliminal tapes. As near as I could tell it is entirely b&&&@*#&(#.
Not that I have a strong opinion about it or anything. |
John Rickard
Member From: Phoenix (It's A Dry Heave) AZ
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posted 13 November 2004 12:03 PM
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I bought one of those tapes that is supposed to help you improve your memory but can't remember where I put the tape. 
JR[This message was edited by John Rickard on 13 November 2004 at 12:06 PM.] |
Jon Light
Member From: Brooklyn, NY
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posted 13 November 2004 12:29 PM
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Hey--I took hypnosis years ago and I still think I'm a chicken. I can prove it. Look! I'm a chicken! |
Les Anderson
Member From: Rossland, British Columbia, Canada
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posted 13 November 2004 01:00 PM
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To understand how subliminal suggestion works, you have to have had some study into psychology. It does work if it is used in the proper context. Subliminal suggestion is actually nothing more than an off shoot of hypnosis. For a while, it was a fad sold by those who wanted to cash in on a quick buck or two.Subliminal suggestion is a very powerful source for learning and healing and, whatever else; if, it is applied properly and by someone who has an educated knowledge of psychology. The way it is used in the link above is more of a “Send us your money” gimmick. Hypnosis is a very powerful medium if and when it is used by a professional. The way it has been presented in the linked site above, is a gimmick.
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(I am not right all of the time but I sure like to think I am!)
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J D Sauser
Member From: E-03700-DENIA (Costa Blanca), Spain
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posted 14 November 2004 08:43 AM
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I at times see myself playing in dreams, playing much better and with more freedom than in "real" life. I have even watched myself, somehow realizing that I was dreaming "it" again, trying to check if it was realistic... Every time I wooke up, I came away with the impression that what I had just plaied in my dream indeed made sense.
Long ago I had to see a Neurologist. Over the time, our discussions became more open than a regular Doctor's visit. So, I told him that I suspected that I knew something in the back of my head (subconcious) that I hoped to unlock and bring to the light. He gave me the adress of a specialist that works using hypnose...
AND??
I never went... sorry guys.  But I still think about it. ... J-D. |
HowardR
Member From: N.Y.C.,N.Y.
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posted 14 November 2004 08:48 AM
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This topic reminds me of a parrot joke, but alas, this is a family forum...... |
Jon Light
Member From: Brooklyn, NY
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posted 14 November 2004 08:56 AM
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Hey J-D--long time. Y'know---you could have made something up and turned that into an even better story. I am a master craftsman at my trade but daily work consists of a few hours of intense skill & trouble shooting and many more hours of mindless repetitive stuff. I am a MUCH better steel player during those hours than I am when I get home and try to apply any ideas I may have cooked up during the day. And I have no doubt at all that this is true---I'm not delusional (about this anyway). There's some profound stuff locked deep in the unconscious. To learn to tap this.......well, isn't that the goal of all of us. To achieve peak performance at will. To feel like you can do no wrong on that rare and great gig and then to know how to find your way back to that state the next night. Meditation, hypnosis, practice (heaven forbid), selling your soul, being a chicken (look, I'm a chicken!) or being Howard's parrot (don't know that one)......... |
Rick Alexander
Member From: Florida, USA
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posted 14 November 2004 10:38 AM
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There's no magic incantation that will turn an up and coming steeler into Herb Remington or Jerry Byrd.
BUT, the things you tell yourself in your internal dialog are accepted and believed by your subconcious. So, if you keep telling yourself that you're not very good and your intonation sucks etc., you will come to believe it and act accordingly. If, on the other hand, you keep telling yourself that you have a great talent that you are developing and perfecting, and you are improving every day etc., you are far more likely to do well and keep at it. Some might call it self esteem.
Subliminal programming is all well and good, but imho it's just performing a function that you could be doing for yourself - plain old fashioned positive thinking. I doubt very much that Jerry or Herb or Tom Morrell or Joaquin Murphey underwent hypnosis or subliminal programming. Their achievements came from doing the work needed to get there.
quote:
You master the STEEL GUITAR. You have a natural and intrinsic talent and skill. You play it with ease. Your playing is powerful, dynamic and expressive. You play with great control, style and technique. You hear with perfect pitch. You can duplicate every style perfectly. What you can imagine, you can play, instantly. You remember all of the music. You read all music perfectly. You have excellent speed, timing and phrasing. You are extremely creative. The music flows from within you
The guy that wrote that musta been at my gig the other night! 
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Rick Alexander
57 Fender Stringmaster T8, 57 Fender Champ, Remington Steelmaster D8, 47 National New Yorker - Music Man and Peavey Amps . .
[This message was edited by Rick Alexander on 14 November 2004 at 10:40 AM.]
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John Rickard
Member From: Phoenix (It's A Dry Heave) AZ
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posted 14 November 2004 11:15 AM
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http://www.mercola.com/2003/sep/27/illusion4.gif
JR |
Bob Stone
Member From: Gainesville, FL, USA
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posted 14 November 2004 11:20 AM
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John,The heartbreak of lithography (gone wrong)is much worse than the heartbreak of psoriasis. You've got my respect. Bob |
Mark van Allen
Member From: loganville, Ga. USA
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posted 14 November 2004 12:05 PM
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Many years ago I trained and certified as a Therapeutic Hypnotist. I really got into it to help some of my studio clients with stage fright and "red light jitters". I went on to get certifications as Master Hypnotist and Clinical Therapist. The idea of "subliminal" programming, tape and other wise (you may remember the discounted theater experiments with flashing "buy popcorn" ads every few frames in between films) is based on suggestions below your level of awareness. Some "subliminal" tapes have a sappy music bed and supposed messages mixed down so low you can't hear them in your "waking state". The efficacy of such programming is, um, debateable.. however, Hypnosis as a modality is a rich and wide ranging field in health care, sports enhancement, personal growth. Most people don't realize that all hypnosis is self-hypnosis. A therapist, practicioner or stage hypnotist is just a facillitator for a person who wishes to enter trance. Rick has it right with quote:
the things you tell yourself in your internal dialog are accepted and believed by your subconcious
-imagine if you will, a steel player who approaches the stage thinking "Oh, Man, everybody's watching, they'll see my hands shake, how I'm not prepared for this- they'll hear every little mistake- and that G#'s gonna break for sure just when I start my solo, I'll look like an idiot..." Some people conquer these kinds of thoughts by sheer will, some take a more positive outlook ( but have similar thoughts running as a deeper script in their minds), and many learn over many gigs that they'll be fine, and learn to program themselves positively. I expect if you had honest answers from many of the greats, they would admit to a lot of doubt and fear in their "early days" but more confidence and positivity as they experienced positive playing experiences. Where I respectfully disagree with Rick: quote:
it's just performing a function that you could be doing for yourself - plain old fashioned positive thinking
- Most people just don't know how to break the cycle of negative self-programming. Often our self-image is a complicated affair, embracing many earlier experiences, some back into childhood (and some believe, beyond...) A skilled practicioner has many therapeutic tools at his/her disposal, and can help a client to remove obstacles, irrational fears, and negative programming in a quick and efficient manner. There's some stuff we just can't do on our own. That being said, most people really can benefit from repeated use of progressive relaxation, and repeated self-programming of positive suggestions. This can be done listening to tapes for usually, at least ten days. The process works much better if any blockages are cleared (emotional, self-image, etc.) and the person has learned to access the state of self-hypnosis through relaxation through either practice or experiencing the state in therapeutic hypnosis. I know this sounds like new-age crap to many... but consider for a moment all the times you've used either negative or positive programming on yourself or others- "I'll never pass this test"- "How come you aren't as good at that as your brother?"- "These clothes make me look fat"- "If I just had one more knee lever, then I'd sound like..." If you're filling up your day with these kinds of messages, you're programming yourself to fail. "Subliminal" programming seems to be of debateable merit- but positive self-programming through hypnosis and self-hypnosis has been proven extremely effective. Most people don't know that almost all of the major sports teams have a hypnotist on staff, as do many political aspirants. The Mayo clinic has for many years quietly used hyponosis along with standard anesthesiology to lessen or replace the amount of anesthetic, with fantastic results including much faster recovery times. Many dentists have used hypnosis in their practice for years. (I had my upper wisdom teeth removed without anesthetic, using self-hypnosis). The mind-body connection is being researched with great results in child oncology- children respond very well to hypnotic programming for fighting cancer and other disease. And believe it or not, there have even been proven results with such physical changes as height gain and breast enlargement. I'm not kidding. This is a relatively new field, but with well-documented results for such self-improvement areas as study comprehension, performance anxiety and skills improvement. Although no replacement for practice and experience, the potential as an aid to steel guitar mastery is enormous.
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Stop by the Steel Store at: www.markvanallen.com
[This message was edited by Mark van Allen on 14 November 2004 at 12:10 PM.]
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HowardR
Member From: N.Y.C.,N.Y.
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posted 14 November 2004 12:31 PM
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So, this guy walks into a pet store looking for a parrot......  |
HowardR
Member From: N.Y.C.,N.Y.
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posted 14 November 2004 12:37 PM
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quote:
proven results with such physical changes as height gain and breast enlargement
Wow! Now I'll never have to leave the house! [This message was edited by HowardR on 14 November 2004 at 12:55 PM.] |
Paul Arntson
Member From: Bothell ,WA (just outside Seattle)
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posted 14 November 2004 01:11 PM
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Right on, Mark.This turned into an interesting thread despite my grumpy post right when Jeff started it.
Thanks for info all, and Jeff this was a really interesting thread.
I'll kick back and listen for a minute next time something pushes my hot button.
-paul |
Bob Markison
Member From: San Francisco, CA
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posted 14 November 2004 02:44 PM
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I'm with Mark on this one. Hypnosis - especially self-hypnosis hones a person's taste for and access to the unobvious. Just like text and subtext, as in "what did she or he really mean", calm subliminal states can make us better decoders of macro (outer world) and micro (internal) phenomena. Charlie Parker said he "came alive" when he was building melodies out of the upper intervals of ninths, elevenths and thirteenths as guitarist Biddy Fleet was laying down the progression of Cherokee. This became Parker's KoKo when it was recorded in 11/45. It gets even better when there is a shared taste for mystery and the unobvious in ensembles, and all of us can cite sublime moments of shared waking dreams in musical setting. Last night I played a party, and the daughter of the guest of honor was a Downs Syndrome girl who sang rather remarkably in unison with our improvised lines as proof that she could tune into where things were going. There was nothing in the way of her instant decoding of the musical lines. Hynosis is a reminder to get out of the way and let it swing. And swing it will. |
Les Anderson
Member From: Rossland, British Columbia, Canada
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posted 14 November 2004 06:58 PM
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The bottom line in all this is that if you don't have the natural ability to "feel" your guitar and "feel" what is coming out of that guitar, then you will simply play by mechanical rule.For those of you who are familiar with the late Gerry Metzinger of the LA philharmonic orchestra, he would literally weep tears while he played his solos. The guy was letting his violin be his voice and he was living the story of the music as he played. The great one’s always have a personal connection with their musical instrument that few understand. Some of us have it and some of us don’t.
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(I am not right all of the time but I sure like to think I am!)
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Michael Devito
Member From: Montclair, NJ, USA
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posted 15 November 2004 12:39 PM
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There is often weeping heard when I play lap steel. |
Ray Minich
Member From: Limestone, New York, USA
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posted 15 November 2004 02:32 PM
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Mark V.A.: Often times, when watching the TV, I feel like Hathaway in that mid '50's science fiction story, "The Subliminal Man". "Can't you see the signs?" he asks. Comes to mind every time I see a commercial connecting a product that promises to make your life better if you buy it (and tacitly lets you know how miserable your life is without it). Subliminal messaging or just plain mental manipulation? I haven't figured that out yet. |
Jim Hankins
Member From: Yuba City, California, USA
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posted 15 November 2004 02:51 PM
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I believe subliminal messages have been proven to work as shown through scientific study, experiments, etc. You probaly need to work at it, in conjunction with learning how to relax... Im serious, this is difficult and not easy, Jim |
Rick Alexander
Member From: Florida, USA
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posted 15 November 2004 03:36 PM
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Okay, how about this . . http://www.miditrax.com/SelfHypnosis.htm
I created this page, animations, midi file and all about 5 or 6 years ago. I was not really serious when I did it. But if you follow the instructions it really does go 3D, and it does space you out, and if you repeat the incantation over and over . . .
A few months after I put it up I received an email from a guy who was asking for the midi file because his friend, a disturbed Vietnam vet was moving to a new trailer park with no telephone wires so he couldn't go on line any more. Drugs and therapy had not helped this man. He told me that the ONLY way the guy was able to chill out was by bringing up that page and doing the drill and listening to that music.( oh, the power of the minor 9th chord!) I received other emails from people who said it helped them, but that one was the most poignant.
The irony of it all is that I did it as a goof, after watching "Stuart Saves His Family" or something . . . It still gives me a chill when I think about that guy - he has no idea it was just a fun thing I came up with while I was fooling around. The "incantation" could be changed to suit the individual, so maybe it could help make Joaquin Murpheys of us all . . ------------------
Rick Alexander
57 Fender Stringmaster T8, 57 Fender Champ, Remington Steelmaster D8, 47 National New Yorker - Music Man and Peavey Amps . .
[This message was edited by Rick Alexander on 15 November 2004 at 03:42 PM.]
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Mark van Allen
Member From: loganville, Ga. USA
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posted 15 November 2004 09:06 PM
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Ray, there's an entire subset of modalities in Behaviorism currently being studied and taught under the umbrella of "Neural Linguistic Programming", among other monikers. A lot of it is based on what appears to be very provable observational science (ie: a certain behavior will elicit a repeatable behavior in another, or that people reveal hidden thoughts and motivations in body language, etc.) This part of the study of human behavior is truly fascinating, but it has many implications including very manipulative designs. (Just go to ebay and see how many "speed seduction" courses are being offered!) Law enforcement and jury selection is using these methodologies, and they are routinely taught to salesmen and ad agencies. You may remember a TV ad for a finacial investment company that had images of a train moving down a track, through a tunnel, etc. Combined with the rhythm and pacing of the dialog, that ad was classic hypnosis- if you really watch "commercials" you'll be surprised how maniupulative almost all of them are. How about the ones that don't even mention what the product does or is for? We are unfortunately being manipulated every time we turn around these days, and it helps to be aware of it at least. Speakers and politicians are taught about such techniques as "anchoring", where they tell a joke or hit an emotional connection with the audience while in a certain spot or position, and then return to that position when they want to recall the audience's comfort and approval at a later moment. Most folks never even see it coming... Skilled presenters have always learned some of this on their own, but it's becoming much more of a science. I think we need to recognize that our minds respond to these approaches, keep an eye out for manipulation from without, and use these techniques to enhance our own lives in areas like study and performance. There are many great references out there for learning about all this. A great place to start is the books of Milton Erickson or many by Richard Bandler. | |
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