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Author
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Topic: Rickenbacher Serial Numbers
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Richard Shatz
Member From: Quincy, IL, United States
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posted 26 August 2005 12:19 PM
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I understand that prewar Rick serial numbers are poorly documented and I centainly haven't been able to find any source useful information about them. However, a pattern seems to be emerging.Frypan - number only (beginning with 0 or 00)
Model B - C prefix, number
Silver Hawaiian - D prefix, number
Model 59 - E prefix, number I could be wrong but it appears that the prefix indicates the model. I would be interested to know if the numbers are sequential or do they in some cryptic way indicate a date of manufacture. Certainly, a large number of these instruments are owned by fellow forumites. Maybe we can figure out a way to create a registry to further analyze this mystery. |
Joel Newman
Member From: Myersville, Maryland, USA
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posted 26 August 2005 12:46 PM
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Well Heck Richard, I'll weigh in with my b6, yup it starts with a C (C805). From Pics Rick Aiello hosted for me he deduced it was either a '35 or '36. I'm curious as to what you come up with . . . |
Rick Aiello
Member From: Berryville, VA USA
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posted 26 August 2005 12:47 PM
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Frypans also had "A" and "B" prefixes ...------------------
Aiello's House of Gauss
My wife and I don't think alike. She donates money to the homeless and I donate money to the topless! ... R. Dangerfield
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Mike Neer
Member From: NJ
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posted 26 August 2005 01:45 PM
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066 Frying Pan here.  |
Richard Shatz
Member From: Quincy, IL, United States
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posted 26 August 2005 02:37 PM
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Rick,
I never noticed the A prefix before the s/n on my two other frypans. The prefixes on them are easy to miss. 6 string s/n A67. 7 string s/n A85. I always thought the s/n on my "holy grail" was 028, but it's 28.
So now we have no prefix and A,B,0,00 for the frypans and C,D,E for the others.
Looks like the numbers are sequential. Any ideas?
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Scott Thomas
Member From: Oregon, USA
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posted 26 August 2005 03:20 PM
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I don't know how the serial numbers work, but here's another one for the "data base". (Which is a good idea for our own reference if nothing else) My A22, serial# B220 http://freefilehosting.net/bin/?id=pdjwk6U= Any excuse to show it off  |
Richard Shatz
Member From: Quincy, IL, United States
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posted 26 August 2005 03:31 PM
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Since we're showing off. http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/r_shatz/album?.dir=9eb6&.src=ph&store=&prodid=&.done=http%3a//pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph//my_photos |
Scott Thomas
Member From: Oregon, USA
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posted 26 August 2005 03:48 PM
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Richard . . . NOW THAT AIN'T FAIR!!!!!![This message was edited by Scott Thomas on 26 August 2005 at 03:51 PM.]
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Harry Sheppard
Member From: Kalispell, MT USA
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posted 26 August 2005 04:09 PM
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I have been watching all of the Rickenbachers on Ebay for a few years now emailing the sellers for serial numbers on Frypans, Bakelites and Silver Hawaiians. I have pictures of 16 Frypans, 25 Bakelites and 18 Silver Hawaiians all with serial numbers and I can say for sure that the numbers are sequential. I don't know where they started but the earliest Bakelite I have is X and the earliest Silver Hawaiian is X so I assume they started with 1. I have not been able to tell which of the 0, 00, A, or B Frypan serial numbers came first as the frypans never really changed features other than some have "Pat Pend" stamped in the body below the bridge or on the pickup mounts. A few have blue cloth wire wrapping the pickup instead of the normal black. Otherwise they are all the same except the very first few "Electro" guitars like Scotty's. I have never seen a frypan with a tone control that looked like it came from the factory.As for the Bakelites, all have a single octagonal knob and "Pat Pend" stamped on pickup brackets up to X although the double knobs on opposit sides start at around X but they are still "Pat Pend". Patent # Bakelites start at X with knobs on opposite sides and Plastic Plate Wartime Bakelites start at X up to the last one I have at X. Silver Hawaiians have a single black arrow knob up to X and the next one I have is X which has flying saucer knobs on opposit sides. X and earlier have plated brass nut and bridge while X and after have bakelite parts. As is being discussed in another thread, some bodies are plated brass, some steel and some a mixture of both. "Edited to remove serial numbers"[This message was edited by Harry Sheppard on 27 August 2005 at 11:11 PM.] |
Scott Thomas
Member From: Oregon, USA
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posted 26 August 2005 07:26 PM
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Harry,
It's been awhile, but when I lived in California, I used to visit Guitar Showcase in San Jose frequently. They have a small vintage guitar museum in one room of the store---lots of great stuff, including an immaculate long scale frypan (not for sale) that if memory serves, is described as being serial number 001. I don't know, because it has the usual "badge" logo on the headstock, unlike the very early ones like Richard's with "Electro" etched on the headstock.
Maybe someone on the forum has seen it too and can verify the serial number. I just looked up the store and found that they have a website http://www.guitarshowcase.com/
in case you wanted to contact them and have one of the staff go back and look it up for you.
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Jeff Watson
Member From: Palos Verdes, CA, USA
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posted 27 August 2005 08:01 AM
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I've got frypans with the numbers 0126 and 00115. It seems to me that the A & B prefix frypans have a harder edge to the headstock slots where they transition toward the nut. The 0 & 00 prefix's have beautiful smooth flowing curves in that area. A slight difference to be sure but I think its real. If so I wonder if the castings were changed or is it possible they did some machining to that area at some point? Also does it seem that 0 & 00 guitars perhaps have more voids/air pockets in the castings than A & B guitars. Mine are both pock marked pretty good. I always assumed the 0 & 00 prefix's were the earlier guitars but who knows. How about guesstimates/thoughts on how many frypans might have ultimatly been produced. It seems rare to see serial numbers above 200 or 300 in each of the 0,00,A OR B series. Harry I've got bakelite #C444 that has knobs on opposite sides, I suppose for every rule theres an exception. |
Harry Sheppard
Member From: Kalispell, MT USA
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posted 27 August 2005 09:17 AM
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Scott, Thanks for the info.Jeff, I know there will be a lot of wierd things showing up with the Ricks and many of these guitars have been modified over the years. One of the most common mods is the addition of the tone control. Everything after that has a tone control. Have you looked to see if the pots match or if the tone control hole may have been drilled after the plate was plated? Does the wiring look original? Most of the early ones I have seeher than ben have red and black cloth covered wires. What kind of knobs are on the guitar? I have also seen on the early Bakelites where the tops of the pickup pole pieces have been ground to an angle rather than being flat as on the later guitars. Some have it and some don't but is is more common on the early guitars. I have also seen very small differences in the frypan castings and agree the A and B series look a little "harder". Also some have the end of the headstock ground to more of an angle on the 0 and 00 where it seems like the A and Bs are ground flat although that could just be from the person doing the griding. Thanks for all the info. "Edited to remove serial numbers"[This message was edited by Harry Sheppard on 27 August 2005 at 11:07 PM.] |
Harry Sheppard
Member From: Kalispell, MT USA
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posted 28 August 2005 08:56 AM
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One last post on this subject and I am done here. I have not found any "A" prefix frypan serial numbers above 150 and I have found no "B" prefix frypans below 150. Does anyone have an "A" or "B" frypan to discount this? |
Jeff Watson
Member From: Palos Verdes, CA, USA
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posted 28 August 2005 02:47 PM
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Wait Harry don't go. I'm still trying to figure out how many frypans might have been produced and your asking all the right questions for me. What are the highest numbers you're aware of in the 0 and 00 series. I saw it written once (without any support for the statement)that there were a couple of thousand frypans made. The serial numbers don't seem to indicate half that many. |
Harry Sheppard
Member From: Kalispell, MT USA
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posted 28 August 2005 05:50 PM
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Jeff,Not to many responces so I thought I would just stick to collecting numbers from Ebay and see if I can figure it out. As for numbers on frypans, the highest "0" series I have is 090X but there are A LOT of gaps. The highest "00" series is only OO14X but the strange thing is is that 0014X has the pickup wraped in blue cloth covered wire. I owned A13X and it had the exact same blue wire on the pickup. If you take off the prefix, these guitars are only 6 numbers apart. Could it be that some of these series ran concurrently? The highest A series I have is A13X and the highest B series is B40X which has a white flying saucer knob putting it later if it is original. As I said in my last post, I have no evidence of "A" serial numbers higher than A150 and "B" numbers lower than B150 athough there needs to be a much larger sample to prove this. |
Jeff Watson
Member From: Palos Verdes, CA, USA
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posted 28 August 2005 06:04 PM
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Mighty fine work Harry, thanks for passing it along. Also my 00115 frypan has the blue cloth pickups. |
John Dahms
Member From: Perkasie, Pennsylvania, USA
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posted 28 August 2005 06:11 PM
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I can't help much with frying pan #s, but I thought I'd mention a few things I have noticed about metal body steels. The Silver Hawaiians do seem to run in order with D#s. The Model 59s seem to run in order with E#s but I have seen them with non-adjustable 1 1/2" pickups and no serial #. To confuse things a little more I know of a post war (Aug 10, 1945 Manhattan Beach News, Ca. news paper deep in the neck) model NS with 1 1/4" adjustable pickup and an E serial #. I thought that usually post war NS models did not have serial #s. I'd have to dig my reords for the number.
There are a lot of little things that each of us has noticed (pots, caps, wire, etc.) that I'll bet if somebody compiled and sorted the info a timeline could be assembled.
It's a disease, yes, but we've all got it. |
Harry Sheppard
Member From: Kalispell, MT USA
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posted 28 August 2005 06:33 PM
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Thanks for the info guys.The blue cloth wire seems interesting as I have personally never seen it on a Bakelite or Silver Hawaiian which use the exact same pickup. Does anyone own or has anyone seen this blue wire on anything but a frypan?? I am sure they must have just grabbed a pickup from a pile of assembled pickups but maybe not?? If I can find a bakelite with blue wire, maybe it would be easier to date the frypan by using the Bakelite's serial number and see where the frypan fits in?? Where is Ray Montee, has has more of these things than anyone??[This message was edited by Harry Sheppard on 28 August 2005 at 06:35 PM.] |
Rick Aiello
Member From: Berryville, VA USA
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posted 31 August 2005 09:41 AM
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quote:
I have no evidence of "A" serial numbers higher than A150 and "B" numbers lower than B150 athough there needs to be a much larger sample to prove this.
Just in from Hal Smith ... owner of one of Dick McIntire's A25s ... quote:
I had a 7 string Short scale frypan, now sold, with a serial No 000. My Long scale 6 is # A212. Short scale 6 is # B351. Short Scale 7 string is # A84 ... And the Dick McIntire is plain # 265. Thought this may further confuse the issue
Harry, thought the # A212 would be of interest to you. Hal's A25 (Mcintire) has those giant magnets ... black krinkle paint ... a badge logo (not script). And a very beautiful tone ... PS: My A22 is # B355 ... My A25 has no serial number ... ------------------
Aiello's House of Gauss
My wife and I don't think alike. She donates money to the homeless and I donate money to the topless! ... R. Dangerfield
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Richard Shatz
Member From: Quincy, IL, United States
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posted 31 August 2005 11:58 AM
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Rick,
Did you check for a serial number on the inside of the hollow at the top of the headstock? That's where the s/n on mine is. |
Harry Sheppard
Member From: Kalispell, MT USA
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posted 31 August 2005 01:32 PM
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Thanks Rick and Hal for the update. Yes, this helps a lot making it even more confusing. To make it even worse, a prewar wood body spanish guitar was just listed on ebay which has a "C" serial number and a lot of the prewar amps I have seen have been stamped with a "C" serial number on the speaker as well. I am pretty sure Bakelite spanish guitars have a "C" serial number too. There are probably far fewer prewar bakelites lap steels than the 3000 or so serial numbers actually indicate. Subtract the hundreds that have probably been dropped, destroyed, parted out, etc. to that number as well.Oh well, I guess that is what makes it interesting. Maybe with enough information, someone will be able to figure it out, that is if there actually was any numbering system used. |
Rick Aiello
Member From: Berryville, VA USA
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posted 31 August 2005 01:54 PM
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quote:
Rick,
Did you check for a serial number on the inside of the hollow at the top of the headstock? That's where the s/n on mine is.
Yep ... no sign of it anywhere ... I have a couple B6s with no serial #s also ... Bobbins are pretty usefull in grouping together frypans: 1) The oldest ... with the giant 3/8" thick magnets ... have very tall bobbins (the cavity of the magnets is 1"+). Completely different "creatures" in just about all aspects. 2) The "Next Generation" bobbins ... only have a "hot lead" ... one of the pole pieces is the dedicated ground. It grounds the coil to the magnet, mounting plate/apparatus and the guitar itself. 3) When the B6s came out ... they had to go with the "multiple lead" bobbins ... I've seen: a) Standard "two" lead ... one "hot" : one "ground" b) Three lead (most common) ... two "hots" : one "ground" c) Four lead ... two "hots" : two "grounds"
I've kept notes on magnets as they have come through for remags. I've done many, many sets ... and one thing is for certain ... Prewar magnets are not all created equal. They range from very weak (130 gauss midgap) to pretty strong (210 gauss). Doesn't seem like it mattered if it was a frypan, bakelite or Model 59. Different "lots" ... different grade steel ... I guess ??? Postwars are very consistent ... and stronger ... (225 gauss) ... except the very last ones from the 60's which were very weak (100 gauss). Interesting stuff ... to me anyway 
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Aiello's House of Gauss
My wife and I don't think alike. She donates money to the homeless and I donate money to the topless! ... R. Dangerfield
[This message was edited by Rick Aiello on 01 September 2005 at 04:41 AM.]
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