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Author
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Topic: Tonebars?
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Fred Kinbom
Member From: Brighton, UK
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posted 01 November 2005 02:03 PM
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Dear everyone,Here's another query from the Swedish novice...  What are the pros and cons of different tonebars in your opinion(s)? I guess this is something very much down to personal taste, but do you have any comments in general? I use a Stevens steel (on electric lap steel), which I like, mainly due to the slotted shape for the finger which I think gives better control. However, I am under the impression that bullet bars are the most popular, and I read somewhere thet the Stevens steels are used mainly by dobro players. What can a bullet bar offer that a Stevens steel can't? As always, thanks for your patience and all advise is most appreciated! Cheers, Fred |
James Quackenbush
Member From: Pomona, New York, USA
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posted 01 November 2005 02:10 PM
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Fred,
The Bullet Bars offer more sizes than that of the Stevens bar ....You can get various diameter's and length's ....The nose on one end of the Bullet Bar is also rounded unlike the Stevens ....Sometimes the weight of a bar will be a factor to some players whereby the Bullet Bar has the extra heft to it ...I think my Bullet Bar plays a little bit smoother, but I can move around faster with a Steven's bar....It' s all a matter of preference ....The slot's on the side of the Stevens are easier for some to hold also .....To others it doesn't matter
Buy both !!.....You can NEVER have too many bar's in your collection.....Having 2 bars is just the beginning !!.....
Hope this helps......Jim[This message was edited by James Quackenbush on 01 November 2005 at 02:11 PM.] |
Steinar Gregertsen
Member From: Arendal, Norway
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posted 01 November 2005 02:12 PM
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In short,- better tone (usually) and more control of slants, especially reverse slants.Personally I have gone from Stevens bars to Shubb SP-2 bars (nice compromise) to bullet bars, but I'm not quite as comfortable with bullet bars as with the SP-2 yet. So I do all my practicing with a bullet bar, but still use the SP-2 for most recordings and gigs, it just feels 'safer'... Steinar ------------------
www.gregertsen.com |
George Rout
Member From: St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada
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posted 01 November 2005 02:23 PM
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Steinar, I too, have just started using the SP-2, and it's the best thing about playing since I started in 1948. I use it for both the Dobro and lap steel. I love the weight and balance of it. George |
Mark Eaton
Member From: Windsor, Sonoma County, CA
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posted 01 November 2005 02:37 PM
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I used a Stevens for years, a couple of years ago went to a Shubb with the wood handle, and now use an E.G. Smith from Montana-best yet.I still think bullet bars are best if you play a lot of slants. Many of the Sacred Steel guys use some form of a sculpted "dobro" bar, instead of a bullet bar-even the pedal steel guys. I'm a dobro guy first and lap steel guy second and I love the control I get with the Smith bar.
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Mark
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Travis Bernhardt
Member From: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
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posted 01 November 2005 04:59 PM
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What Steinar said. Including the part about practicing with the bullet but feeling "safer" with the SP-2 (where does all that sweat come from when one plays in front of a crowd?).-Travis |
Rick Alexander
Member From: Florida, USA
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posted 01 November 2005 05:42 PM
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I use both, but I use 2 7/8 by 3/4 bullet bars the most. I think you have more control (once you get used to it) and it's way better for slants. Ever try a reverse to forward slant with a Stevens type bar? Or a split-string slant? You wind up using your wrist to do slants with it. Once you get used to a bullet bar, slants can be executed smoothly and accurately.But it just depends on your style I guess - Jerry Douglas and David Lindley don't seem too limited by their Stevens bars . . |
Mark Eaton
Member From: Windsor, Sonoma County, CA
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posted 01 November 2005 05:51 PM
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If Jerry were using a Stevens bar he would be limited-that's part of the point. I'm pretty sure Jerry uses the Scheerhorn/Tipton bar.The word is Mike Auldridge still uses an actual Stevens-more power to him if that's the case. Bullet bars are all pretty similar with the exception of the dimnensions. The newer "sculpted" bars, like the Smith, some of the Shubbs, and the Scheerhorn/Tipton, are evolved versions of the Stevens bar and are sort of a next generation improvement. I can't see myself going back to the Stevens except as a backup if I misplaced the Smith or the Shubb. ------------------
Mark
[This message was edited by Mark Eaton on 01 November 2005 at 05:53 PM.] |
Steinar Gregertsen
Member From: Arendal, Norway
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posted 01 November 2005 05:55 PM
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quote:
Ever try a reverse to forward slant with a Stevens type bar? Or a split-string slant? You wind up using your wrist to do slants with it.
I'll agree if you're talking about a Stevens bar with the straight back, but the cutaway of the SP-2 makes it a lot easier to control. Reverse slants are still difficult to execute fast, I definitely prefer bullet bars for that.
Never had a problem doing split-string slants with the rounded end of an SP-2 though, works great for me (uh, perhaps it would be closer to the truth to say that they both work equally bad, in my case.... ). Steinar ------------------
www.gregertsen.com [This message was edited by Steinar Gregertsen on 01 November 2005 at 06:10 PM.]
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Keith Cordell
Member From: Atlanta
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posted 01 November 2005 06:19 PM
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I'm certainly no expert but I also have settled on the SP2 for stuff with slants and the Lap Dawg for stuff without slants. I use the lap dawg for pull offs, a lot... I miss it when I use the SP2 since I have gotten used to doing pull offs as a part of my technique and you can't do them with a round nosed bar. I tried a lot of different ones including the black rajahs, which I started out with as a preference; I have spent a lot of time practicing with bullet bars and for what I play they are impractical. |
Gary Boyett
Member From: Colorado
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posted 01 November 2005 07:30 PM
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Keith,Turn the bar around and you have a point on the SP2. I like the SP2 for everything except reverse slants. A piece of cork in the little groove on the pointed (back) side helps though. |
Charlie McDonald
Member From: Lubbock, Texas, USA
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posted 02 November 2005 03:55 AM
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I just like the feel of a bullet. That's all. |
Steve Pierce
Member From: San Rafael, California, USA
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posted 02 November 2005 09:48 PM
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Just wanted to chime in . . .Slants is the issue for what bar you use. Buying both is worth it. I'm up to 4 (Stevens, SP2, JB, Broz-O-Phonic) and I've got plans to get a couple different ones too. The bullets are the most versatile, but doing single string (like in open D) with the SP2 seems to work better for me. Jerry Douglas rarely, if ever, uses slants. He's admitted this in a couple interviews I've read. I also saw him a couple of summers ago and he never once slanted his bar.
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Steve Pierce |
Craig Prior
Member From: National City, California, USA
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posted 03 November 2005 07:41 AM
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Another vote for the SP-2. I used to always use bullet bars but due to a little arthritis in the hands I now find I need the grooves.Reverse slants with the SP-2 are a vexing problem. If Shupp develops a "mini-SP2" that might be the solution. Craig. |
Dan Sawyer
Member From: Studio City, California, USA
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posted 04 November 2005 12:37 AM
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Bullet all the way for me. It will take you a few weeks to get used to and then you'll appreciate it. |
Kevin Ruddell
Member From: Toledo Ohio USA
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posted 04 November 2005 02:56 AM
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The SP2 is a great bar , I just wish it's bullet tip was a little bigger , it seems there's not a lot of weight/mass at the tip and it effects the tone |
Steinar Gregertsen
Member From: Arendal, Norway
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posted 04 November 2005 07:20 AM
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Besides the obvious slanting advantages, another positive side effect of playing with a bullet bar - to me - is that it makes me feel more like a 'real' steel guitarist.
How silly is that??  Steinar ------------------
www.gregertsen.com |
Rick Aiello
Member From: Berryville, VA USA
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posted 04 November 2005 08:33 AM
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What kinda bar is this guy usin' ...  ------------------
Aiello's House of Gauss
My wife and I don't think alike. She donates money to the homeless and I donate money to the topless! ... R. Dangerfield
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Brad Bechtel
Moderator From: San Francisco, CA
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posted 04 November 2005 08:40 AM
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Could be either a GS Swallows bar or an original Oahu tone bar. It's hard to tell with all those fingers in the way. The lap steel looks like a Magnatone, but I could be wrong there too.------------------
Brad's Page of Steel
A web site devoted to acoustic & electric lap steel guitars |
Loni Specter
Member From: West Hills, CA, USA
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posted 04 November 2005 08:50 AM
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Snicker's Bar |
Rick Aiello
Member From: Berryville, VA USA
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posted 04 November 2005 08:54 AM
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quote:
The lap steel looks like a Magnatone
Now that really hurts ...  |
Mike Neer
Member From: NJ
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posted 04 November 2005 08:54 AM
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That's one of your diamond cut flatties with epoxy, right Rick?C'mon, y'all--it's two-finger Rick. One finger, two-finger Rick. Rick burnt out that middle finger in his wild youth. [This message was edited by Mike Neer on 04 November 2005 at 08:56 AM.] |
Steinar Gregertsen
Member From: Arendal, Norway
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posted 04 November 2005 09:03 AM
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Rick, have you had any problems with the pitch being a little flat when you use that bar? Steinar ------------------
www.gregertsen.com |
Rick Aiello
Member From: Berryville, VA USA
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posted 04 November 2005 09:05 AM
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Mike ...Mike Scott came into the Dustroom to shoot the breeze ... at the '05 HSGA convention. I was noodlin' around with an Oahu flat bar ... and we started talking about Roland Peachy and that "film clip" you had posted up awhile back. He said Roland used a "generic" diamond cut flat bar ... so I reached into my "purse" and pulled one out and said ... "Like this" ... He got a big chuckle out of that ... ------------------
Aiello's House of Gauss
My wife and I don't think alike. She donates money to the homeless and I donate money to the topless! ... R. Dangerfield
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Rick Aiello
Member From: Berryville, VA USA
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posted 04 November 2005 09:20 AM
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Steinar ... that rascal never stays in one spot long enough to tell ... quote:
so I reached into my "purse" ...... He got a big chuckle out of that
OK .. I guess you had to be there ... so for those who weren't ... 
Sorry, Brad ... I was just goofin' around ...
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Aiello's House of Gauss
My wife and I don't think alike. She donates money to the homeless and I donate money to the topless! ... R. Dangerfield
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AJ Azure
Member From: Massachusetts, USA
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posted 04 November 2005 01:45 PM
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One thing I haven;t seen anyone bring up everytime this topic comes up is ergonomics and how a bullet and even most Stevens (unless cut for your hand) have big time ergonomic issues that can potentially cause lots of hand problems.So let's say you could wash away all the past concepts, what would your ideal bar look like? -Adriel  |
Keith Cordell
Member From: Atlanta
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posted 04 November 2005 01:50 PM
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I tried for a year to get used to a bullet bar. I still prefer the SP2 and probably always will, unless I decide to play PSG at a later time- and that ain't likely. For some folks it is a matter of a few weeks of practice; for some of use with other issues, like carpal tunnel or nerve damage from diabetes, grooved bars are the best bet. |
John Dahms
Member From: Perkasie, Pennsylvania, USA
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posted 04 November 2005 03:40 PM
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I've got my favorites, but I like to think that each instrument has a range of sounds that can be brought out by the material or shape or attack of a certain bar. Mellow guitars can be livened up or harsh guitars can be toned down, etc.
Anyway I'm hooked. Here are some of mine.
 |
Rick Aiello
Member From: Berryville, VA USA
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posted 04 November 2005 03:46 PM
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quote:
have big time ergonomic issues that can potentially cause lots of hand problems.
I have just about every kind of bar ever made ... and this one is by far the most ergonomic.  Its so ergo ... in the "straight" bar position ... it takes very little effort to even hold it. Thing is ... its so well shaped for the hand ... doing even the simplest forward slants (using fingers)... well ... ugggg. Thats why I use the Diamond or Oahu flattie ... I will throw a forward slant ... every Blue Hawaiian Moonlight ... ------------------
Aiello's House of Gauss
My wife and I don't think alike. She donates money to the homeless and I donate money to the topless! ... R. Dangerfield
[This message was edited by Rick Aiello on 04 November 2005 at 03:50 PM.]
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AJ Azure
Member From: Massachusetts, USA
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posted 04 November 2005 06:23 PM
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I wonder why no one ha picked up the Elton design.Rick are you saying thta it's hard to get it out of your hand position in to a slant? |
Rick Aiello
Member From: Berryville, VA USA
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posted 04 November 2005 06:47 PM
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Yes ... But I learned the slantin' technique via Jerry Byrd ... all fingers (no wrist). So when you employ that type of move ... that "hunchback" is very awkward ... Sorry Quasimodo ... And the entire bar has a tendancy to want to turn over on its side ... once it leaves its resting position (in your hand). But if someone has hand "issues" ... and just wants a bar to play "straight" positions ... this would be a great one. They pop up on Ebay every now and then ... in fact ... there was one listed last week. Heavy too ... nice tone ------------------
Aiello's House of Gauss
My wife and I don't think alike. She donates money to the homeless and I donate money to the topless! ... R. Dangerfield
[This message was edited by Rick Aiello on 04 November 2005 at 06:55 PM.]
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AJ Azure
Member From: Massachusetts, USA
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posted 04 November 2005 07:00 PM
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I have a concept of receding channel that allows for the ergo factor with the ability to have shifting pivot points. My hands are a mess and I slant but, my bar was custom fitted and ultimately true ergo is individualized to the user. |
Don Kona Woods
Member From: Vancouver, Washington, USA
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posted 04 November 2005 08:05 PM
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Different sized broom handles make good steel guitar TONE bars for the underprivileged, economically deprived on the one hand, as well as the gifted and creatively talented on the other hand. Aloha,
Don[This message was edited by Don Kona Woods on 04 November 2005 at 08:06 PM.] |
Don Kona Woods
Member From: Vancouver, Washington, USA
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posted 05 November 2005 11:12 PM
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Do you guys think I am joking or serious?Actually both. Barney Isaacs of Hawaii Calls, Halekulani fame played the steel with a wooden broom handle, just as Casey Olson played a number during Jerry Byrd's Ho'olaulea in Waikiki. I've tried it and it makes an amplified steel sound like an acoustic steel. It's fun. Aloha,
Don |
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