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Author
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Topic: Scale Length: 22.5" vs. 24.25"
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Cliff Kane
Member From: Long Beach, CA
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posted 07 November 2005 11:58 AM
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I would very much appreciate hearing people's preferences and thoughts on the 22.5" scale length or the 24.25" scale length. For example, if you were to have a non-pedal triple neck made--maybe by Mr. Remington--which scale length would you go with? I am most used to the 24" scale of my Sho-Bud, but it has pedals so I'm not dealing with too many slants with that guitar.
BTW, I've done a search and read what folks have already said, but I'm just curious if there's more or new things to be added. Also, particularly in reference to Mr. Remington's guitars.As always, your input and help is greatly appreciated. Cliff[This message was edited by Cliff Kane on 07 November 2005 at 12:22 PM.] |
Wayne Cox
Member From: Chatham, Louisiana, USA
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posted 07 November 2005 12:59 PM
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Guess I'll throw in my $00.02! Please be forgiving, cause these are just my opinions.
First, it has been pretty well established that a 22.5" or 23" scale can yield some pretty accurate 3-string slants in the first 7 frets. However, I personally think most short scale steels sound pretty rinky-dink. I'm speaking of tone here. Second,if the steel player is already used to a 24.25" scale (as is common on pedal steel), why not stick with it? Although it was not mentioned, a 25" scale can yield beautiful, rich, harmonics and some accurate 2-string slants way up the neck. Kinda like the best of both worlds. And since we are not stretching the strings with pedals, the notorious 25" scale string breakage problem becomes almost a non-issue.
~~W.C.~~[This message was edited by Wayne Cox on 07 November 2005 at 01:01 PM.] |
Mark Eaton
Member From: Windsor, Sonoma County, CA
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posted 07 November 2005 01:07 PM
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I think Herb builds them in both scales-and everybody seems very happy with them.The MSA SuperSlide is 22.5, but the technology behind it gives one great sustain with shorter scale length and the ability to more easily execute slants. ------------------
Mark
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Jeff Strouse
Member From: Jacksonville, Florida, USA
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posted 07 November 2005 01:17 PM
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If you're having a non-pedal triple neck made, Herb Remington is the only one I know of doing it. I have a short scale T-8 he built for me a few years ago and it has great tone and sustain. |
Stephan Miller
Member From: Silver Spring, Maryland, USA
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posted 07 November 2005 02:56 PM
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Cliff-- these two threads might be useful:
http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum2/HTML/007404.html http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum2/HTML/001916.html Jeff Au Hoy, in the first thread, and Carl Dixon in the second, mention various pros and cons of long scale vs. short; Carl also touches on the "issue" of string spacing, which is another thing to consider for ease of slanting. A lot of steels have narrow string spacing on the lower frets, due to neck taper from bridge to nut. You could make the argument that this allows more picking room for the right hand and better bar coverage for the left. But this taper-- combined with a long-scale instrument-- can make the lower slants tough to hit. I like 3/8'' spacing with no taper the best. Before you have the triple-neck built, why not figure out your own preferences, based on the time you've spent "hands-on"-- then you can customize that bad boy the way you like: even vary the pickups for different necks... the scale lengths too if you want...  --Steve |
Rick Alexander
Member From: Florida, USA
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posted 07 November 2005 03:07 PM
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This is a T8 Steelmaster Herb built for me last year. It's 22 1/2" scale and it has killer tone and sustain and it gets great harmonics too. Slants work very well on this guitar, 3 string slants and split-string slants can be executed accurately.
I also have a 24 1/2" scale D8 Steelmaster that I got on eBay while I was waiting for my T8.
It's a great guitar too, I just prefer the shorter scale.
There are less than 200 Steelmasters in existence - all custom orders.
Herb makes about 12 per year.
Each one is special . .[This message was edited by Rick Alexander on 07 November 2005 at 03:11 PM.] |
Cliff Kane
Member From: Long Beach, CA
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posted 07 November 2005 04:27 PM
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As usual this forum rocks. Thanks for the great ideas and info.Steve: "even vary the pickups for different necks... the scale lengths too if you want... "
Wow, what a great idea. I hadn't even thought about that. I wonder if Mr. Remington would go for that? That would certainly add to the guitar's versatility. One comment that I've read about these guitars is that the E66 pickups make them sound modern, like a modern pedal steel. That's okay for much of what I will use the guitar for, but I would keep at least one neck for Hawaiian music. I think keeping at least one neck short scale with a different pickup (any suggestions? I think he likes too use George L's) for a vintage tone would be great. I think I'm going to pull the trigger on this. I've sold some vintage saxophones and have the means trickling in, so this is an opportune time for it. I've been collecting some vintage steels, but I would really like a new custom guitar to run next to my rock-solid Sho-Bud. Rick: how is the tone of the E66's on your Steelmaster? Does it do the Hawaiian thing well, or would you choose a differnt pickup for the neck you would dedicate for Hawaiian music? I'm getting excited, but want to do this right if it's really goning to happen. Your input is very helpful, thanks! |
Rick Aiello
Member From: Berryville, VA USA
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posted 07 November 2005 05:26 PM
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quote:
the scale lengths too if you want... "Wow, what a great idea. I hadn't even thought about that.
 It's fun ..
------------------
Aiello's House of Gauss
My wife and I don't think alike. She donates money to the homeless and I donate money to the topless! ... R. Dangerfield
[This message was edited by Rick Aiello on 07 November 2005 at 05:27 PM.]
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Terry Farmer
Member From: Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA
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posted 07 November 2005 10:36 PM
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For string spacing you could order it without the nut and bridge slotted. When you bring it up to tune the strings will be tight enough not to move around on you if you take it easy. Play with different spacings and then have the nut and bridge slotted accordingly. Just another 2 cents.[This message was edited by Terry Farmer on 07 November 2005 at 10:38 PM.] |
Rick Alexander
Member From: Florida, USA
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posted 08 November 2005 06:22 AM
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quote:
how is the tone of the E66's on your Steelmaster? Does it do the Hawaiian thing well, or would you choose a different pickup for the neck you would dedicate for Hawaiian music?
The tone is wonderful - nice and full with chiming harmonics. It sounds fine for Hawaiian and for everything else as well. It doesn't sound like a Stringmaster, it has its own distinctive tone and vibe. Remember, these guitars were designed and built by a man who has long since mastered Hawaiian, Western Swing, Jazz, Pop, and a few other genres along the way - a man who Leo Fender consulted extensively in the development of his Steel Guitars right from the beginning over 50 years ago.
It has been said that Steelmasters "sound like PSGs" - I don't know about that, I guess it's mostly in the way you play. I wouldn't want to change out the pickups in my T8 - in fact I wouldn't want to change a single thing about it. The George L's have a nice full sound - and there's no 60 cycle hum!
That's a big plus in the studio.Herb has a standard string spacing he uses - 3/8" at the bridge tapering to 5/16" at the nut. Funny thing, Herb and I were just discussing this a couple of days ago in relation to another triple neck. I think if you wanted something different Herb would accomodate you, but this configuration works just fine. It's the same string spacing as a Stringmaster, and slants can be executed accurately and cleanly - including 3 string and split string slants. |
Peter Jacobs
Member From: Northern Virginia
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posted 08 November 2005 06:59 AM
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This is interesting to me because I've been looking into getting a Supro or National, which have tapered fretboards. I'm used to my Melobar lap, which is 3/8" at the nut and bridge. Anyone go from a straight neck to a tapered one? How did it work out for you? (BTW, I almost never slant, as I'm playing alt-country/bluesy stuff -- more slide guitar sounds).
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