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Author
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Topic: Visualizing the Fingerboard in C6
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Paul Honeycutt
Member From: Colorado, USA
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posted 20 November 2005 12:28 AM
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I come from a guitar background and on lap steel I usually play in open E. But I've been getting into C6 over the last few months and I'm playing a gig in a couple of weeks playing in C6. The hardest thing for me is to make the brain switch from guitar or lap steel where low string is in E. Does anyone have tips for remembering where the chords are in C6 or does it just come over time? |
Billy Gilbert
Member From: Texas, USA
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posted 20 November 2005 01:02 AM
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The IV chord is 5 frets to the right of the I chord and the V chord is 2 frets to the right of the IV. |
Billy Wilson
Member From: El Cerrito, California, USA
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posted 20 November 2005 01:31 AM
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I think of the high E string on C6th as the B string on guitar as they are both 3rds of the tuning chord. It helps if you think of guitar tuning as a G6/9. Likewise with the C and G on C6th they become the G and D from guitar. Just on those three strings all kinds of guitar can jump on your steel tuned C6th. Don't forget to transpose up a 4th!! |
Bill Leff
Member From: Santa Cruz, CA, USA
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posted 20 November 2005 09:56 AM
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Paul, I feel your pain...  Here's something I use that helps me a lot:
http://www.looknohands.com/chordhouse/guitar/index_rb.html Change the tuning to your C6 tuning and use the software to show you where individual chords lie on the neck while you have your steel with you and explore the positions using the webpage's visual guide. This will help reinforce the imagery. You'll also begin to internalize where various chord inversions are on the neck in addition to the obvious straight bar across the strings "money position". Another thing I did at one time that helped me a lot is to put small Post-It notes coming off the far side of the neck on each fret. On each Post-It note I wrote the four chords that a straight bar over that fret on the top 3 or 4 strings would yield. For instance, my Post-It over the 12th fret on the C6 neck (using the tuning C E G A C E) had this written on it: C6
Am (or Am7 w/4 strings)
D7
F Maj 7 (or F Maj 9 w/4 strings) Hope this helps you some.
Bill
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Gary Anwyl
Member From: Palo Alto, CA
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posted 20 November 2005 10:28 AM
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There's a system for learning the standard guitar fretboard called "CAGED". Its name comes from the five basic chord shapes. You learn where the chord shapes are on the neck and how they connect to each other.You can do a similar thing for the C6 fretboard layout. It actually turns out to be easier because there are only three basic chord shapes. For example the diagram below shows the three places where you would find the notes in a G chord:
 I found it was a very good way to approach learning the C6 fretboard layout. I have a more detailed description here:
C6 Tuning EDIT: Fixed broken links
[This message was edited by Gary Anwyl on 12 April 2006 at 04:14 PM.] |
Bill Leff
Member From: Santa Cruz, CA, USA
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posted 20 November 2005 11:35 AM
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Great stuff Gary!  |
Rick Alexander
Member From: Florida, USA
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posted 20 November 2005 05:03 PM
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Since you think in E, just keep in mind that E is at the 4th fret of C tuning. Then everything should fall into place . .Another cool tuning for us guitar thinkers is A9. It's the same as standard guitar tuning except you lower the D string to C#. |
Paul Honeycutt
Member From: Colorado, USA
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posted 20 November 2005 06:22 PM
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Thanks everyone. I was practicing today and to make things even more fun I tuned the low C to C# so I can get those cool 7th chords.
I also thought about which fret is E and tried to work things out from there. I'll tell you, learn a new tuning and every day is an adventure!
I also printed out GAA's Guide to C6 Lap Steel Tuning and keep it at hand. There's shareware called Alternate Tuning where you can enter what the open strings are (six strings only) and it will show you scales and chords. The hard part is to get the brain to think in C6 and communicate it to the fingers as fast as it does on regular guitar.
Now to get those palm harmonics to be second nature... |
Stephan Miller
Member From: Silver Spring, Maryland, USA
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posted 22 November 2005 11:38 AM
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Hi Paul-- I'm sort of going down the same road, just played my 3rd gig on C6 (console 8-string)...playing steel/Spanish electric about 2 to 1. Our band records every performance and we each get a CD of the gig. After I get past the torture of hearing how lame I still sound, I learn a lot from these. From the first gig I learned how quickly my intonation would go south when trying out some of the cool things I'd discovered (but had not bothered to support by sufficient drill and repetition!) You might record not only the performance, but some of the rehearsal and home practice leading up to it.Easier to offer specific advice if you could mention: What kind of tunes are you going to be playing? Will you be playing C6 lap exclusively? Is the band big enough so that you can lay out a bit? Do you use slants much? (If you haven't been there, the "Slantin'" part of Rick Aiello's site is real useful for the C6 rookie.) Bill's idea about the Post-Its on various frets is excellent, and Gary A., thank you--
that site is a terrific reference...wish I'd explored it sooner. --Steve |
Andy Volk
Member From: Boston, MA
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posted 22 November 2005 11:45 AM
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And this isn't a new problem. You see a fair amount of old lap steels with penciled, painted, or taped-on note names or numbers. Gary's material is excellent. I find that working with Band-in-a-Box helps a lot but for some reason, I play some things on a standard guitar a few times and they stick ... play them on steel 20 times and they still seem to have drifted away 3 weeks later. Must be something about the muscle memory of individual fingers on spanish guitar doing different moves versus the near identical bar moves to play the same passage on steel. |
Paul Honeycutt
Member From: Colorado, USA
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posted 23 November 2005 07:08 PM
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The band I'm playing with does Grateful Dead, CSN&Y, Stones, blues and other random songs. I'm playing standard electric and acoustic guitars and mandolin besides the steel so I can really get myself confused! It's a lot of fun to have a bunch of instruments around me and pick up the one I think is most appropriate for the song. My steel is a '60's Harmony acoustic guitar that had high action so I stuck one of those extention nuts on it and restrung it with lighter strings and tuned it to C6. I have a Lace soundhole pickup feeding a Barcus Berry preamp into my regular pedalbaord that goes into a Mesa Studio .22+ with an Altec speaker. It's an odd rig but it'll do me until I can find the right D-8 console. |
Ray Montee
Member From: Portland, OR, USA
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posted 23 November 2005 07:33 PM
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For C6th.........WHY NOT just put on a stack of records and play nothing more than the basic chord positions as they are played on the record? Don't try to make a simple 3 chord tune into a complex symphony. Take it a step at a time. I'd forget the tabs and diagrams and video's, etc. for now. THey have their place of course but try "later".
I usually think of the Key of F for visualization of the chords to a particular song. F = 5th fret; Bflat = 10th fret; and
C/C7th on the 12th fret. Just a guide. NOT something to have to pound into your memory cells. Listening to what is being played and holding a long sustain to that four beat chord can help you more than one might imagine. Countless others have done it over the years. Don't be anxious to play too much but instead LISTEN! Formulate in your mind's eye.........how the chords are positioned and how they repeat in different keys and the like. Don't worry what NOTE is on what string on what fret. THINK CHORDS!! |
Paul Honeycutt
Member From: Colorado, USA
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posted 24 November 2005 07:28 AM
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Good advice, Ray. Right now I'm adding "color" rather then doing any hot solos. I'm also using a lot of two note chords and working on economy of motion such as playing the I and IV chord at the same fret. I have much to work with just from the posts on this thread. I think harmonizing basic melodies would be a good exercize as well. |
George Rout
Member From: St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada
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posted 24 November 2005 05:48 PM
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Thanks guys for throwing that out on the table. I have attempted to play in C6th for 45 years, and to me as a super hot typist it was like changing around the keys on the keyboard, man I couldn't grasp it. I really like Ray's idea. Geo |
Steinar Gregertsen
Member From: Arendal, Norway
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posted 24 November 2005 06:36 PM
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I've found that the only thing that works for me is to "learn by doing" and hide all theory books, diagrams, etc, under the bed and just play. Then later I sit down and try to analyze the what's and why's of what I played.That's how I learned to play guitar over 30 years ago, and so far it's the only thing that's worked when learning various steel tunings.
Guess we're all different in that regard,- some have an easier time with theory than others..... Steinar ------------------
www.gregertsen.com
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Al Marcus
Member From: Cedar Springs,MI USA
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posted 25 November 2005 10:11 AM
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Ray has the right idea to think CHORDS first. Everything will fall in place then.Before I got my pre-war Electraharp in 1946, I played 6 string then D8 from 1936 to then. You will find that most of the melody is in the chord or very close by....al
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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/
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