DFACEGACEGBD (low to high)

Trying this out on my Carter U12 (I don´t YET have an MSA SS) leads me to suggest altering the order of the top 3 strings. Let´s go through the process.

my U12

BEG#BEF#G#BEG#D#F#

the lock lever passes it across to "the B6 side" by lowering 2 Es to D#s and the D# to C#

BEG#BD#F#G#BD#G#C#F#

transpose this up one fret to make it read easier as C6

C((FACEGACE))ADG

strings 4 to 11 are identical to Reece´s tuning. On strings 1 to 3 I have 2 out of 3 of Reece´s top strings, but in another order. OK so I can easily tune that 12th string up a tone and I change Reece´s top 3 string order

DFACEGACE ((B)) DG

Now only the 3rd string is different. So on my E9 universal 12 string I change the 3rd string from the high G# to a string that can be tuned to the B below the 5th string C.

¡¡¡¡¡Voila!!!! In the same way that many change over from CEGACE to C#EGACE depending on the song....I now have a 12 string that can slip between Reece´s C6 12 string to a variant of F9 (E9 up a half tone)

Let´s see how to go from one to the other

Reece (reordered string 2+3) DFACEGACEBDG

raise 8 E to F
raise 4 E to F
raise 3 B to D
raise 2 D to E

gives DFACFGACFDEG
or transposed 1/2 tone C#EG#BEF#G#BEC#D#F#

It´s a wonderful E6/9..or if you prefer an E9 with an extra chromatic string just as Reece´s C6 has an extra chromatic string. It´s a wonderful tuning, specially for song accompaniment and it´s just a quick 5 string retune from Reece´s wonderful tuning.

I can use a lot of my E9 PSG grips and licks, i don´t break that high 3rd string as it´s now an(other) out of order chromatic string.

Jeremy Williams
Barcelona Spain.

[This message was edited by MUSICO on 07 December 2005 at 03:42 PM.]

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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/

Reece´s tuning is pure C6 extended to the maximum, fantastic for jazz....but if you do the quick retune to F9 it´s a song accompaniment machine. I reckon I could get through a whole one man show on just the one 12 string SS.....I´d retune the 5 strings for the changeover in the interval.

Swapping the high G# of the E9th tuning for another out-of-order chromatic gives so many possibilities for thumbpicking accompaniment and melody with the fingers.

D tune 1 tone above the 5th string
B tune 1/2tone below the 5th string
G
E
C root
A
G
E
C
A
F
D

The following chords can be played without using the bar.

C major
G major
G suspended
E minor
C major 7th
F major 7th
A minor
1 suspended
1 major 7th add 9
1 major add 9

Because of the separation of the chromatic strings its even possible to play a 4 note diminished chord on ANY fret which tunes exceptionally well.

This can be accomplished by slanting the back of the bar to the right only one fret and playing strings 1, 2, 7 and 8.

I'm serious....I'm not sure what the 1 is.

[This message was edited by HowardR on 08 December 2005 at 01:05 PM.]

My answer...BOTH. Which just shows how versatile and practical Reece´s tuning is.

I at first was trying out Reece´s 12 string non pedal...and found that a quick retune would put it into a really great F9 where most of my E9 experience would work. One light MSA SS...two very different tunings. I´d take it instead of a 6 string acoustic on my one man gigs....and it would be two guitars for the weight of one.

But then I found I wanted to use that extra chromatic string concept and the low note being a 2nd instead of the tonic on Pedal.....so Im looking at going 14 string PSG. That way I can add in the extra strings..not the typical 14 string idea of extended range..but adding more melodic possibilities.

I can´t repeat enough...the more I play without pedals the better I get at playing both non pedal and pedal.

¿Couldnt it just be a single 12 and retune between songs?...it´s only 5 strings to retune. That for me is the big advantage.

Yes, that tuning in good hands sure is wonderful.

I sure hope Reece plays Malaguena on his SS again in Dallas this year......

hint hint

F9, E9 basically the same.....

I only mentioned F9 because the theme started from Reece´s C6 and how to retune it to an E9th like tuning.

So if we talk E9 we are just talking about replacing the high G# 3rd string with an extra chromatic string that sits tonally between the 5th (B) and the 4th (E) string. We already have a D#, so it would be a C#.

Talking non pedal this gives you a 10 string (high to low)

F# D# C# E B G# F# E B G#

As it´s easy to do a behind the bar bend of a semitone (G# to A) on the 6th string, you have G# A B C# D# E F# to play melody on.

strings 346 are a nice minor chord.

a lovely progression is Dm Dm/C Dm/Bb A
which you can get
Dm Fret 6 strings 34 6
Dm/C Fret 6 strings 34 7
Dm/Bb Fret 6 strings 34 8
A Fret 5 56 8

To retune to a ten string "reecey" C6 (actually would be B6)

tune the 2nd down a tone
tune the third down a tone and a half
detune the 4th and 8th a semitone

F# (D#) (C#) (E) B G# F#( E) B G#
F# (C#) (Bb) (D#) B G# F#( D#) B G#

transpose it up a tone and you will recognize a very C6 tuning....with that "reecey" extra chromatic string
G D B E C A G E C A

remember 2nd string is tonally between the 4th and 5th
3rd string is tonally between the 5th and 6th

Hope this helps

Reece´s C6 was (low to high)
DFACEGACEGBD
246135613572

My retune to F69 is (low to high)
DFACFGACFDEG
613512351672

Let´s put them in chromatic order for easier comparison

Reece´s C6 was (low to high)
DFACEGABCDEG
246135671235

My retune to F69 is (low to high)
DFACFGACDEFG
613512356712

Let´s try and line them up

ReeceC6 24(6135) (6712) 35
F69 (6135) 1235 (6712)

or alternatively

ReeceC6 24(6135) 67(1235)
F69 (6135) (1235) 6712

These tunings are very different and at the same time very similar. They have blocks of 4 strings in common, same harmonic possibilities, shared knowledge, what you learn in one will function in the other.

¿Doesn´t this make you want to be snowed in with a MSA SS 12 string?

Jeremy Williams
Barcelona Spain

For instance, the C6th tuning on a 6 string
looks like this.

TOP
G I see it as 5th
E ............3rd
C ............1 (root)
A ............6th
G ............5th
E ............3rd

yet if the root (1) is not identified one might assume the G as being the 1, if so, it would look like this.

G one might see it as 1
E ....................6
C ....................4
A ....................2
G ....................1
E ....................6

If it is not designated which is the top, one can imagine how confusing it might become because it would then be inverted.

Designating which string is the root (1) and designating how the tuning is to be read, top to bottom, or bottom to top reveals everything instantly.

I personally prefer to see the numbers vertically as I have presented them which is exactly as they would appear on the guitar, in which case it is not necessary to designate which is the top.

As this thread will attest, the similarities of tunings can much more easily be determined, scrutinized and compared when the procedures are used which is being revealed within this thread.

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Brad's Page of Steel
A web site devoted to acoustic & electric lap steel guitars

But it sure is nice to examine a tuning and have it laid out in text as if you are looking down at the fretboard.

I have seen no shortage of internet or paper documents where the writer fails to specify the "top" ot the "bottom." The steel guitar family, which has more tunings than Carter has pills (not THAT Carter), can be a bit confusing sometimes.

I am gonna put this 12 string tuning on the S-14 and think about some of the changes.
Very good thread, built from a very logical tuning

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 12 December 2005 at 06:16 AM.]

quote:

---

might woirk well

---

You say you will try this 12 string tuning on your 14 string.

¿Why not try it as 14 string?

Talking E9 side of things we have replaced the high G# with a C#. Now you don´t´need to replace it...just add in the C#.

Now you only have to decide if you want to add another C# as the second to lowest string so the bottom three would be B C# E....or Have it where the E9 D string goes.

When tuned back to the "C9" side this 14 string also makes sense as a "Reecey" kind of C6.

I am presuming you are talking about a 14 string PSG...but if someone builds a 14 string non pedal, let me know.

I won´t talk about pedal possibilities as we are in no peddlers, but will comment on the fact that a lot of us are trying nonpedal stuff on our PSG´s.

It is still some flavor of UNI at the moment, mostly from not having found a builder for some inverted steel holders for the work station table...

I like Reece's Bb6 that I played on David Wright's Millenium,
and want to try that out.
I am also gonna try Bill Stafords,
Ed Packard's and maybe Zane Beck's too.

Please keep us updated on all these experiments. Nothing like hands on experience.

I like the way Reece has layed out his tuning and list the 1 , 5, 3, etc.. It seems to me so understandable and correct musically....al

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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/

A student of Reece's told me about Reece always using numbers a long time ago. I didn´t quite see the need. I liked notes as a way of leveraging my 6 string knowledge...."Oooh thats GDBG just like my favourite G chord on 6 string"

Then I started comparing tunings. I spent so much time transposing. It was my only way of comparing. And comparing is SO neccesary. ¿What do you think of this tuning?

A
E
B
F#
D
B
A
F#
D
B
G
D

¿Looks interesting? Lower it a tone and a half and you will see it´s a great tuning. It´s standard U12 E9. ¿See what I mean?

While it is great (specially if you play 6 string or piano) to look at a tuning in a new light..."wow G9 universal"....the quickest way of comparing two tunings is translating both into numbers.

It´s like trying to compare international prices. Buy it in Japan for 10000 yen, or in Italy for 5000000 lira or in Spain for 94456 pesetas....translate everything into dollars and you´ll understand in an instant. Previously I was transposing Reece´s 12 string non pedal C6 down to a 12 string non pedal E6...and then transposing a 12 string uni open string configuration of E9 up to C9 to see similarities. It was ridiculous, like spending all day converting yen to lira to compare the japanese and italian price then converting lira to dollar....forget it. Everything in the same currency. The currency for non pedal tunings is the "tuning in intervals".

Thank you Reece. As always I finally find that you were right all along.

D-9
B-7
E-3
C-1
A-6
G-5
E-3
D-2
C-1
A-6
F-4
D-2

My Super Slide-12 arrives next week and will have Reece's 12 string tuning on it.

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"Gimme a steel guitar, 2 or 3 fiddles and a Texas rhythm section that can swing"..R. Pennington

If you do, please let me know via email rather than through the forum. Thanks!

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Brad's Page of Steel
A web site devoted to acoustic & electric lap steel guitars

1. D 5
2. B 3
3. G 1
4. D 5
5. B 3
6. G 1

This type display could more clearly display the tuning while revealing the interval consistency of ALL tunings when they were compared.