Ron

[This message was edited by Ron Victoria on 05 March 2006 at 07:43 AM.]

I would agree with you if you were planning to refinish a nice Martin, Gibson or a Fender solidbody guitar but I have seen this is really not as important on a Stringmaster or many steel guitars. I have had MANY Stringmasters in all kinds of condition and found it almost impossible to get rid of the ones that look beat up and are in poor condition. Everyone wants nice clean, original guitars. I will admit that some of the worst looking guitars sound the best because they were played but they are still very hard to resell.

After

[This message was edited by Nick Reed on 08 March 2006 at 06:32 AM.]

In the past few years I have bought and sold several Fender non-pedal steel guitars, and I have found that the ones in fair to good condition sell for slightly less than the nice ones, but not for much less. I’m amazed at the spike in prices of All 50’s & 60’s Fender gear in the past couple of years.

In an ideal world, an original finish in great condition is desireable but personally, I'd rather have a profesionally refinished Stringmaster than a totally beat, looks-like-a-truck-ran-over-it guitar. I've never bought into the romantic notion that a vintage guitar has earned every cigarette burn and ding honestly and should be left alone. I say, finish it in avacado if that's what you like as long as you understand the world will view its value differently than an originl finish.

NR

[This message was edited by Nick Reed on 10 March 2006 at 06:49 AM.]

I agree with you 100% about keeping it original and someday originality will be very important as these guitars keep going up in price. But look at the responces to this thread. It looks to me like the majority of the players responding to this thread really do not care if the finish is original as long as it looks good and is playable. That was my point. Some players like clean, original guitars, some like not so clean, original guitars and some just like it to look good and original finish does not matter.

As these guitars go up in value, the nice, clean all original guitars are going to be sitting in the closet (as you stated) because normal play wear will devalue the instrument. It will be sad to see but as you know, that is exactly what has happened to the vintage guitar market. When this happens, players will not want to pay the premium for a guitar they can not play. The collectors wanting an investment will. Players will buy the guitars with a poor finish, dings, pitted chrome and other normal wear and tear and I really think with the small steel guitar market, there will as many players wanting a nicely refinished guitar as there are players wanting the "Relic" look. Of course there will always be exceptions. I also like the played look and would shy away from a refinished guitar but that is only my own opinion. If I buy to resell, I would only buy an all original guitar in excellent condition. If I buy to play, I look for the lowest price.

[This message was edited by Harry Sheppard on 05 March 2006 at 02:08 PM.]

In your example above, if I had to buy one of the Stringmasters, I would probably hold my nose and buy the beat up one, assuming that it was mechanically sound and playable. I wouldn’t pay top dollar for a mint one, and I don’t want restored one.
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A couple of years ago I met a guy who had inherited his grandfather’s National Duolian. He had a buddy who worked in a plating shop and he could get the Duolian chrome plated at a discount price. What a great opportunity! …too good to pass up. I advised him not to do it, and I explained to him how this would severely diminish the value of the guitar. He said he didn’t care about market value, he just wanted to restore the guitar to it’s “original glory”. So he had the job done. I know that he and his family will regret that someday.

So, you'll greet the Grim Reaper with a few less gold coins in your pocket, but, you'll have years of enjoyment from something that you really loved and appreciated. That's gotta be worth something, right?

One way or the other, it always costs you. But eventually it all evens out.

"Do That Which Pleases You"

this thread is like the Jewish dilema....free ham

quote:

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but when these guitars double and triple in value in a few years the new paint will become an issue in my opinion.

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Buy tax free bonds with a 4% yield (you can find them) as a hedge and refinish that old Stringmaster that you'd rather play than store.

You're covered.

[This message was edited by HowardR on 06 March 2006 at 10:14 AM.]

IMHO: At least for the time I have the good fortune to have them (2), I figure, ahh, I'm more of a caretaker & player. I am not a collector.

I have a "55' D8 in really good condition. It's my main Axe and I am very, very careful with it.

I, also, have a "60" D6 Walnut Stringmaster (my first Steel) that I took on the road, about a thousand years ago. The walnut finish, with that kind of road work (not abused), did not hold up well. So, back then, I had it repainted only (Ebony).

As a practical matter, as far as presenting a professonal image, I felt it was necessary. We didn't wear jeans, either, not that I'm against that). Times and culture have changed.

Now, decades later, some of these Stringmasters are in truly terrible condition. An example of that is the Stringmaster Nick acquired not long ago. Just look at the "before condition". It had to be refurbished if your are a "caretaker". He then did a wonderful job with great painstaking care in refurbishing that Stringmaster. The result is... it can be put back in service in all regards and provide the musical enjoyment it was intended for in the first place.

IMHO: No harm done except, perhaps, to a hard core collector seeking to make money off a comodity. Nothing wrong with that either.

For what its worth, along with having a "Caretaker" mentality, I would agree with those who suscribe to the notion that, in extreme cases like Nick's, refurbishment is the necessary course of action to take. TX
Rgds,

Ron

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JCFSGC member since 2005 "Be of Good Cheer"
"55" Stringmaster D8,"59" Stringmaster D6
"67" Telecaster,
"60"Fender Concert Amp 4-10's

[This message was edited by Ron Brennan on 06 March 2006 at 12:22 PM.]

In addition to my pedal steels, I decided I wanted one lap steel to play around with, and possibly even gig with. After a little research and waiting, it was clear I wanted a Stringmaster D8. But I couldn't justify paying the high prices they are going for these days. I waited until I found one for half the going rate because it is a little beat up and someone had modified it from four legs to three. Three legs will sit steady on an uneven floor with no adjustments. Many old-timers preferred them that way.

If I were a collector involved for the investment opportunities, I would have passed on both these instruments. As a player, I am happily using these great-playing old instuments that I got for half price. However, even though it was my gain, true to what Doug says above, whoever made those modifications lost half the resale value.

[This message was edited by David Doggett on 06 March 2006 at 11:30 AM.]

Who will be buying Stringmasters in 5 or 10 years when they reach $4000.00 or more? Will the collectors of high $ vintage guitars start to see the value of these wonderful instruments and drive the prices up as they have with everything else in the vintage market? Or will it be us players trying to purchase a great playing and sounding steel guitar? Maybe both? It is all supply and demand. Fender only made so many Stringmasters in the 1950s-1970s and as with everything else, some people will always want one. As more people want one, the prices go up.

I guess your decision as to what to do would be on what you think the future holds for these instruments. If you think as Doug and some others (myself included) that Stringmaster prices will follow other vintage guitar prices, then keep it original and just be careful not to add to any damage already done. Your instrument has become an investment. But if you think of your instrument as a tool to make music and you like it all beat up and don't really care what it looks like, then play it, refinish it, personalize so it inspires you.

It is very unfortunate that old instruments by default have become collectable and therefore to valuable for everyday use. I think that we in the Steel Guitar world are very lucky that our instruments are still affordable. The mint condition guitars will, like everything else, continue to go up in price until the working musicians will no longer be able to afford them. But there are a lot of Stringmasters out there in pretty poor condition and I still think with such a small market and small demand (compared with standard guitars), players won't need to worry much about loosing 50% of the value of the guitar if they refinish it. They have already lost it in the fact that the finish is in poor condition. Only another player would buy the thing because collectors only want guitars in excellent condition.

Now case in point...check this out..a T8 Stringmaster and a D6 Stringmaster on Ebay as I write this. TX
Rgds,

We will still have the same dilema.

A few years ago I purchased a Stringmaster D8 22 1/2" scale that was refinished in a slightly metal flaked burgundy. Although not real professional, it was decent....8 out of 10 I would say. I paid a little more than $500 for it on ebay.

Anyhow I always like the sound & tone of this particular one and I like the short scale. I'm in the process of a re-re-finish.

Does my value drop even more?

I'll post photos when it's completed. I think this one is going to be very special