Now I can understand why you wouldn't want to put double courses on a pedal steel... you'd spend all day tuning it, and trying to equalize the pull on the courses... but with a non-pedal steel, why not ?

I realise that if you had an octave string with a different gauge you would have to be careful matching the height of the strings at the nut and bridge, or the steel would touch the heavier of the two strings and rattle on the thinner.

Jon: You're probably right. I've been playing for decades but have never done much slant work. I would have thought that the two octave strings would have been close enough together that the amount of out-of-tune-ness caused by the slant would not be very perceivable. I've noticed that you can get the strings a lot closer together than most manufacturers do on 12-string guitars, without buzzing.

I would tune it to open E to open A like this:
-----------1-----2
1. E
2. E
3. B-----C#
4. B-----C#
5. G#----------A
6. G#----------A
7. E
8. E

The high E's and B's would be tuned in unison, with the 6th sting G# and 8th string E being an octave higher than standard. You would have to pluck strings two at a time(strings 1 and 2, 3 and 4, 5 and 6, 7 and 8), so chords would be difficult (but the electric octave 12 string sound is one of individual notes, anyways).

It goes without saying that this is NOT an "all night long in a honkytonk" tuning. It would be cool for a song here and there in the studio. Basically, it would sound like a twelve string Rickenbacker with a B bender.

I think I'll go try this right now.

CS

[This message was edited by Chris Scruggs on 29 March 2006 at 11:46 PM.]

Oh, Brad. I know this doesn't relate to non pedal steel, but it relates to the topic, so I decided to post. Besides, I don't think the pedal community (in general) would care at all about this kind of thing as they seem to be a fairly standardized bunch.

It sounds similar to the chorus effect heard on country records in the 80s, but not as cheesy or artificial (seeing as it's a natural sound and not an "effect"). It sounds great strummed across all eight strings. Very autoharpish and spacey.

Hooray for octave steel guitar!

Sound clip

[This message was edited by John Bushouse on 30 March 2006 at 05:28 AM.]

My main acoustic guitar is a twelve-string (six double-courses) flat top with a raised nut. The nut is stock, not modified in any way to account for the string rattle problem you mentioned, and strung with an off-the-shelf pack of light guage strings (so the first two courses are unisons, the next four octaves). I tune to the usual open tunings (G, C, D).

The rattle isn't a huge issue, but it exists. Sometimes I can work it into the music, sometimes I have to fight it. I imagine it would be worse on an electric with the intent of playing something pristine. Slants don't really work that well, but I don't play a style that needs slants on that guitar. If I have to, certain slants will work, with care (in some cases the uneven string heights can be an advantage, since they keep certain strings out of the way a little!).

Oh, I just remembered, it's not so much the height of the slots--although that does matter--it's the curvature of the cheap plastic nut. It's designed for a fretboard with a slight curve, not for contact with a straight bar, so up to the second fret I have to press really hard to get all the strings to make full contact. Not a problem if I capo.

I put up with the minor nuisances because the sound is distinctive--not everybody is doing it--and because it does sound really good. Now, the guitar itself is terrible, and horribly unbalanced (the fifth string course is WAY louder than the others, for instance), but even still it gets good comments from people. I can't imagine actually having a decent guitar to abuse in this way.

It's not clear to me whether you're thinking of building an electric or an acoustic guitar--either way, good luck, and I'd love to hear it!

The instrument that I shall be building will be an electric console non-pedal steel. It will have two necks, each with 6 double courses, one tuned to C6 and the other to E9.

You've guessed it... I've been addicted to the 12-string guitar since a teenager. I have nine at the moment. I also have three 12-string citterns, and two 14-course lutes, plus eight mandolines, all of which have double courses. I also have a trichordia, which has treble courses. With this instrument I put the octave string in the middle, surrounded by two in unison. Being a longtime builder of mediaeval instruments, most of my instruments are double coursed.

What I haven't yet decided is whether to put octave or unison courses on the steel guitar.

I've played a little with tuning in different intervals than octaves, but haven't gone very deep into that. I've tried everything (including minor seconds) but haven't really given it the time I would need to get a proper feel for it.

One thing that comes to mind is that I would consider tuning one of the necks to a bigger open chord--something really strummable--but I guess decisions like that are a fair way off at this point.

I really highly recommend checking out Kelly Joe Phelps' CD Roll Away the Stone, too, while you're on your way. Not sure if his kind of blues is your thing, but the twelve-string tunes are pretty mind blowing.